Edinburgh traffic..... gawd help us !

[NoddyonNitrous]

Davie said:

This makes for depressing reading... more so as I'm relocating out towards Haddington direction and for the short term (I hope!) will be commuting back to Fife which doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm. Hopefully work will be understanding and worst case allow a shift in hours to try and avoid the peak hours and best case, do that plus look at a four day week. Granted the train is an option but makes it rather expensive but it's at least there if required.

Anybody currently travelling east to west and back again round the bypass and able to shed some light on when it starts to get busy? I'd hoped to be on the road and over the bridge by 7am and then in the evenings, leave it until after 6pm but I fear that may be wistful thinking!

A cheap jetski may be a worthwhile purchase!

There used to be a hovercraft and then a ferry from Leith / Portobello to Kirkaldybut I haven't heard of it recently.

[Davie]

It only lasted a matter of weeks I believe... not sure why, I guess high running costs but I've always wondered why there is no ferry service across the Forth. More so when the bridge closed, a passenger service between North and South Queensferry would have worked (granted car service would be a non started due to the logistics / piers / disgruntled locals) but on that note a Leith to Kirkcaldy service could work.

On the subject of public transport, Drem to the Kingdom is £11.30 return... takes an hour each way with one change so that may well end up being the best option for me if I can't work round peak travel times. I have zero desire to spend hours of my life sat at Sheriffhall, Hermiston or anywhere else for that matter! Oddly, Dunbar return is £22.00... comes as quite a shock as Fife side to Edinburgh and back is £5.10 return!

Edited by Davie on Tuesday 13th February 15:43

[sherman]

From haddingto to fife you might be quicker going along the coast (leith, western harbour, crewe toll anx the A90) as you will be going the wrong way (against the normal traffic flow) it might be a bit quicker.

[Davie]

sherman said:

From haddingto to fife you might be quicker going along the coast (leith, western harbour, crewe toll anx the A90) as you will be going the wrong way (against the normal traffic flow) it might be a bit quicker.

That's a good shout, have done that route a few times coming back to Fife from that direction but wondered if the section from Seafield along to Silverknowes may be a bit snarled up in the mornings... other issue is I almost lost an alloy to a few potholes along there recently but that's par for the course these days, hit one on the M90 yesterday and thought I was headed for the verge. Roads are a joke around this part of the country both in terms of conditions and congestion.

[Mad Jock]

I am in the fortunate position that I do not commute to work (Oil rig), but as a resident of East Lothian, I occasionally have to face the "Road to Hell" that is the Edinburgh City Bypass, or even in to Auld Reekie itself via Milton Road or Seafield Road. As such, I have the luxury of choosing to avoid the rush hour traffic, but sometimes it is unavoidable on the return journey.

If I am in my car, I get caught up in the mobile car park the same as everyone else, and I find myself looking at the occupants of the cars around me and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to do this every day. My weapon of choice, though, is my motorbike, and quite frankly the rush hour holds no fears for me. I am not one of the fast lane splitters, no more than 15 mph faster than the surrounding traffic up to the prevailing speed limit (as recommended by the cops), but from, say, Hermiston Gate to Sherriffhall, I can shave twenty minutes off during the rush hour.

I know that it's not the solution for everyone, (Weather, risk, theft, no licence, helmet hair), but for those that use one, it's a no-brainer. Easy commute, free parking, plenty of time saved, running costs are generally lower. For the few days a year that precludes the use of a bike or scooter (snow, ice, very low temperatures) I would use the car, or even take a train (Drem), but for most of the year it makes perfect sense. Invest in the right clothing, and you can wear your work clothes underneath, or leave a suitable jacket or change of clothing in your office.

Some of you can even ride the few models of three wheeled scooters that are available on your existing car licence, and they can filter through traffic just as easily, and still use the motorcycle parking bays.

A decent scooter has pretty good weather protection anyway, storage space under the seat, will do around 70 mpg (depending on engine size)

Some of you will dismiss this out of hand, and that's fine, but for those that want to try it out, go to any of the main dealers in Edinburgh and ask for some details. The second hand market is full of cheap two wheelers, so be prepared to haggle.

[Davie]

Very good argument for two wheels and it does make sense. Father in law is a biker, rides a GS1100 (I think) and swears by it but some of the stories of ignorant and incompetent four wheel users are a bit scary. I'd like a bike but as an inexperienced commuter solution, I think I'd end up being a statistic.

[OldGermanHeaps]

Davie said:

This makes for depressing reading... more so as I'm relocating out towards Haddington direction and for the short term (I hope!) will be commuting back to Fife which doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm. Hopefully work will be understanding and worst case allow a shift in hours to try and avoid the peak hours and best case, do that plus look at a four day week. Granted the train is an option but makes it rather expensive but it's at least there if required.

Anybody currently travelling east to west and back again round the bypass and able to shed some light on when it starts to get busy? I'd hoped to be on the road and over the bridge by 7am and then in the evenings, leave it until after 6pm but I fear that may be wistful thinking!

A cheap jetski may be a worthwhile purchase!

Theres no such thing as a cheap jet unfotunately, plenty of them cheap to buy but they are dear as fk to run, they break all the time and guzzle petrol. Mpg is closer to gpm than it is double figures. Portobello- anstruther for a chippy- burntisland for an ice cream-queensferry for a pint then back to portobello was about £100 in petrol and 2 stroke on my cheap 2 stroke seadoo and around 65-70 for my mates 4 stroke expensive kwak. The fletcher speedboat that came too burnt about £110 but that had the weight of loads of jerrycans to keep us going.

[colin79666]

Some traffic analysis was conducted back in 2010 that showed much of the Bypass was over 100% capacity during peak periods:
http://www.sestran.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/...

The orbital bus never went anywhere, presumably as even the most anti-get-anywhere Edinburgh Council wouldn't turn the inside lane of the bypass into a "green lane" and a bus would just be stuck in same traffic as everyone else.

The impact the lack of any serious investment on the A720 in the past couple of decades overflows onto every major road crossing from West, Mid and East Lothian into the capital. I'm in the unfortunate position of living to the south and even though I commute east half my 20 odd mile commute consists of sitting on the A701 or A702 in 5 miles of crawling traffic trying to reach the A720 junction. At least it beats my previous employment in Edinburgh city centre where by a 9 mile commute took over an hour by "express" bus...

Local authorities are bending over backwards to take new housing developments. That might help get a new school or local road improvement but there is no pool built up between developments to fund bigger projects like the A720 which has been a joke for years. It is long overdue attention at a national level. If the Scottish Government really wants business investment it needs to put the groundwork in and provide infrastructure to support further economic development.

Taking Sheriffhall out of the equation is a start but every single junction of the Bypass between there and the M8 is carnage several hours a day. Hearing the transport minister commenting on a story about work starting on the Sheriffhall flyover made my blood boil as he clearly didn't grasp how bad things have become.

[Dinoboy]

s2kjock said:

Would it have been any better if the city had not been anti-car? It's a pretty compact city that is surrounded by water on one side with ever increasing commuter numbers trying to get in or near to the centre.

Forward thinking might have been to increase better public transport options much earlier, but I am not sure how practical that would have been - it is surprising sometimes that the situation is not much worse.

Your quite correct, I'm not saying they should have simply left it as it was. Just that the stick rather than carrot approach clearly hasn't worked as the current daily gridlock proves.

[Patch1875]

I live in centre-ish Edinburgh but mostly work in East Lothian thankfully I’m going the opposite way of most and I make sure I’m back before the busy times.

Going anywhere in Edinburgh I take the excellent bus service.

[MissChief]

I wonder if they'll get rid of the lights at Sheriffhall if all the bypass traffic is going to use the flyover?

One day, long long ago when I stayed on the east side and worked at Sighthill the lights at the roundabout were out. Honestly I swear the traffic moved so freely and quickly that I thought the lights were a bad idea.

[Chimune]

So do they still allow tractors on the bypass at 8am weekdays then?

[sherman]

Chimune said:

So do they still allow tractors on the bypass at 8am weekdays then?

Its an "A" road so tractors can trundle up and down it all day and night if they want. It will never be a motorway.

[Davie]

MissChief said:

I wonder if they'll get rid of the lights at Sheriffhall if all the bypass traffic is going to use the flyover?

Forgive my ignorance but as great as a flyover would be, would that not just be part of the solution as there are pinch points at the bypass / M8 junction and also the bypass / A1 junctions... both really need some sort of constant flow slip road or traffic will forever be coming to a halt and it'll just back up quickly?

[Mr Trophy]

I agree with all above.

I work from home and if I am needed in the office, I refuse to have any meetings before 10 and will leave around half 3 - latest.

[MissChief]

Davie said:

MissChief said:

I wonder if they'll get rid of the lights at Sheriffhall if all the bypass traffic is going to use the flyover?

Forgive my ignorance but as great as a flyover would be, would that not just be part of the solution as there are pinch points at the bypass / M8 junction and also the bypass / A1 junctions... both really need some sort of constant flow slip road or traffic will forever be coming to a halt and it'll just back up quickly?

Local traffic doesn't really get as far as the A1 junction in my experience, it's normally pretty quiet at that end, even at 5-5:30pm. I doubt the flyover is going to help a huge amount and unless the slip road is a good half mile long there'll be traffic onto the bypass at peak times. Most of the traffic is coming onto the bypass for Edinburgh Park/The Gyle so I doubt there'll be a huge difference at peak times.

[irc]

stevensdrs said:

The problem they has with upgrading the A80 to motorway was the Castlecary arches where it was not possible to have more than 2 lanes due to limited space. It also cost a lot more than planned to complete the Auchenkilns section due to it needing to be substantially piled. It should never have been upgraded at all as the original plan was to build a new motorway section through the Kelvin valley to the Haggs. Unfortunately some tree huggers got hot under the collar and the plan was thwarted. If it had gone ahead we would have had 2 roads and an opportunity for diversions when an accident blocks the road which is every other day it seems. The daily congestion will only get worse.

Further to my last reply - spoke to a civil engineer today who has good knowledge of road building and operating in central Scotland. He said the M80 4 lane decision was a case of bureaucrats over-ruling engineers.

The M80 upgrade contract was a £320 million PFI project which runs for 30 years. Because it was PFI any changes now will be expensive.

Civil engineers suggested an 8 lane motorway. A 6 lane motorway would have cost an extra £35 million. Not a lot.

Why was it done? Mainly political. There was talk of trying to cap road traffic at 1991 levels. Good luck with that. Scottish motorwat traffic increased by 28% just in the 10 years to 2009.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2010/12/17120002/...

As for the Castlecary arches. Not a big problem. Solutions looked at were aligning the motorway to either side of the arches or separating one lane. The road as built has the hard shoulders running through an adjacent arch to the traffic lanes. The 6 lane solution would have been the nearside lane and hard shoulder through those arches.

[tim0409]

colin79666 said:

Local authorities are bending over backwards to take new housing developments. That might help get a new school or local road improvement but there is no pool built up between developments to fund bigger projects like the A720 which has been a joke for years.

I wouldn't say that local authorities are massively happy about taking new developments (not in East Lothian in any case), but it's more about being compelled by the body that currently apportions growth (SESPlan); the growth is being "planned" in a series of "growth corridors" extending from Edinburgh in part to take the expansion that Edinburgh can't absorb. This approach relies on having good transport links into the City which don't currently exist (and won't in the short/medium term).

You make a good point regarding developer contributions (or s75 payments as there are sometimes referred to). As it stands these are pretty much restricted to the impact that directly arises from a development, Education being the main cost. As a an example, the s75 payment per house in North Berwick is around £15k per house to extend primary/secondary facilities. They also can cover upgrading local junctions/roads and recreational facilities like expanding local sports centres, but if a local authority attempts to load additional costs these are open to challenge from the developer on appeal. There has been discussion/moves to have a "roof tax" to fund the kind of infrastructure you refer to, but I am not sure if they have got anywhere.

The big issue over the last 10 years is that many strategic housing sites have been deemed to be "ineffective" because of the required infrastructure costs/developer contributions, so the Scottish Government are keen to get housing built, and any move to load more costs onto developers is unlikely to get much support if it means fewer houses being built. Ultimately it is up the Government to sort out the mess, finance the infrastructure and reform the planning system to stop developers cherry picking unsuitable sites.

I'm glad I'm no longer in local politics as the situation is a mess.

[ch108]

irc said:

Don't see why they couldn't have built a new railway bridge at Castlecary. A lack of will rather than anything else. The cash was found for the new Forth Crossing. A few quid to make the M80 an adequate motorway would have been well spent.

And yes I agree we shouldn't have listened to the tree huggers. The original Kelvin Valley proposal was best.

fking tree huggers. Remember they almost stopped the M74 completion? The publlc enquiry ruled against it and had to be overruled by the govt. Motoring public 1 - tree hugggers nil!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4379553.stm

Edited by irc on Sunday 11th February 17:46

The Castlecary viaduct is a listed building I believe, which posed the problem of altering or replacing the bridge. I think they did look at trying to split 6 lanes through the existing arches, but there was concern about cars trying to reach the hard shoulder if they had an issue in the outer lanes while passing through an arch. Also on the uphill southbound side after the arches, there was supposed to be a crawler lane for lorries. Not sure what happened to that, as the lane is there, but is just used as a mile long slip road to the Old Inns off slip into Cumbernauld.

I think at the time of planning most thought that the Kelvin Valley route would go ahead, and there would be no need to do anything to the A80.

[Davie]

MissChief said:

Local traffic doesn't really get as far as the A1 junction in my experience, it's normally pretty quiet at that end, even at 5-5:30pm. I doubt the flyover is going to help a huge amount and unless the slip road is a good half mile long there'll be traffic onto the bypass at peak times. Most of the traffic is coming onto the bypass for Edinburgh Park/The Gyle so I doubt there'll be a huge difference at peak times.

On the subject of peak times, I'm trying to negotiate with work regarding a change in hours to try and avoid the worst of the traffic - basically I'll be doing Haddington to Rosyth in the morning and then the reverse at night. My thinking was to be on the road for 6am, so sort of bypass by half past then Fife for 7ish and then wait till after 6pm to do the reverse but I honestly have no idea what it's like... anybody do a similar run and able to advise when may eb the least congested times (aside for 2am on a Sunday!)

Thanks