Glasgow car dealers in the 60's -70's

[groak]

ian2144 said:

groak said:

Anyone mentioned Prosser's yet? Going since the 1950's I'm pretty sure. Still alive as Prosser Marine.

Prosser's garage at Jordanhill always had some interesting cars Jenson FF, Matra Bagheera and a Mini Moke, plus a few racing bikes about the place.
If memory serves, I think Dennis Prosser raced at the inaugural race at Knockhill in 1974?

Yep Dennis took the business over from Harry his dad. Dennis loved his fast bikes AND his lambos. he had a pretty tragic personal life and died far too early.

Edited by groak on Tuesday 27th December 21:44

[cat220]

ian2144 said:

cat220 said:

My old man bought a 740 turbo from Linn Volvo, I remember going to see it in the showroom and being excited! Still have it now, stickers and all! The chaps name who sold us it was Simon wallwark!

Simon Wallwark.......rings a bell.

The Simon Wallwark I knew was an Airline Pilot and area organiser(central Scotland)for the quattro owners club back in 2000, he had a Zermatt silver ur quattro and a Sunbeam Tiger.

Is it the same guy who knows ?? Wallwark is not that common a name?

Thats the very chap! Small world, he left Linn Volvo in the early 90's to go flying. Really nice guy.

[cat220]

jith said:

cat220 said:

jith said:

Does anyone have memories of Paisley's motor trade?

Let's start with David Blane and sons. Old David started the business before the war selling American cars; Hudsons and Pontiacs. Ended up with the Jaguar dealership and VW agency. I did some warranty work on Jags then. They lost the agency in the Leyland years and went to Datsun. They had a beautiful showroom with an apartment above. It's now a piece of waste ground!

Then there was Gillespies in Love Street and Glasgow Road who were Wolseley, Austin/Morris, MG and in the early days Jowett. They are gone.

Also Pottie's for Vauxhall and Bedford light commercial across from the Sheriff Court. They had the slowest, most incompetent parts department in the whole country. You took your flask and sleeping bag when you went to buy parts! They are gone.

Low's Garage supplied Opel cars including the underrated Manta. They too have disappeared.

Then Goudie's Garage were the main dealers for the Rootes group, which of course were manufactured just down the road in Linwood. No longer there, nor is the factory!

Then McFadyen's Garage in Shuttle Street. Main dealers for Rover and Triumph, ran by my old and great friend David Millar, sadly long departed way before his time. The nicest, most honest man I have ever dealt with in the motor trade.

Also gone and another victim of the Leyland years.

Then Young's Ford depot, who became Clanford, the employer of the most ignorant counter staff encountered in the trade. I think they were on bonuses to see how many customers they could offend in a week!!

The showroom is still there but is an independent.

All of these companies employ hundreds of people and, with one exception, selling British made cars, all gone. Doesn't it make you sick


J

That brings back a few memories! Have my uncle over for dinner tonight and he used to work as a mechanic for gillespies. My old dear and my uncle were both telling me about the garage in shuttle street! Small world!

What's your uncle's name cat, I probably knew him?

J

Gerald Convery.

Cheers,
C

[duckwhistle]

'The Lotus Scam'. An earlier poster asked about this. Not exactly a scam as it was perfectly legal in theory. This is the gist. Basically if you bought parts and built a car there was no purchase tax (pre vat times) Kit cars were popular,built mostly from recovered parts and the most awful glassfibre bodies imaginable. Lotus cars being in this market supplied a kit to build an Elan, The kit consisted of a built wired and trimmed body, An engine & gearbox, a set of suspension parts and wheels. Thus a new Elan could be supplied as separate 'parts' for tax purposes ie tax free. However this came with some important legal tax conditions, The 'parts' could not be supplied by one firm. You could not engage ANY professional help to construct the car even collecting the parts had to be done without pro help of any kind. You had to build the car yourself away from any pro premisis. This was supervised & strictly enforced by Customs & Excise who can be tricky about infringement of rules. The only pro input allowed was a free saftey check by the lotus agent after construction

How it worked- (allegedly) George Steel of Blythswood Motors supplied the Elan body which was collected from his store an ex tram depot on Kelvinhaugh St. A huge place(full of interesting yanks)and taken to a secret location. Engine etc. was bought from Steelsport, on Govan Rd. Separate companies so legal. Apparently a clandestine group of specially recruited mechanics collected the parts in plain vans and delivered them to obscure lockups conveniently rented by the self build owner. The cars were assembled at night, & weekends,allegedly by said mechs .Only a few hours work ,with the owner in attendance 'helping' so he could at least make a decent stab at explaining how he done the job if asked by C&E. And they did often.

How it went pear shaped- A very well known lady entertainer of the 1960's came to Glasgow and decided to treat herself to a nice new Elan. Now Elans were in short supply, but one was duly found pronto for the lady, Pics in the local paper of her collecting her new car duly appeared with the smiling sales bod handing over the keys. Meanwhile back at C&e a hawk eyed officer of the revenue noticed the said car appeared to be a tax free kit & wondered to himself how this young lady managed to build a kit all by herself as required by the regs and decided to investigate further. Then as they say the efluent hit the cooling module interface.

Now you may ask, how does old duckie know all these things,well I'm buggered if I can remember now, however I do recall towing old George on his water skis all over Loch Lomond while a big hairy dug slept in the back of his black Corvette. Funny what sticks in the mind all these years on.

[HendryG]

Stuart70 said:

I remember a rover dealer on Royston rd area in the 70's. My grandfather and uncle both picked up their sd1 v8 rovers from there. Dad picked up our maxi from their as well;ah well, not everyone can have a v8. Re the v8, the owner (or son) had a Ferrari 512bb which was in when we were picking up a new car. I caused much amusement by asking why he did not run the type of car he was selling. Caused much amusement from youngster as I recall.

Also good memories of picking up Audi 80/90s fro skelly's in the early/mid 80's.

Happy memories and very different from getting my new company vw delivered directly to the office. Miss the sense of occasion of picking up from the dealer. ...

This would be Prossers which was took over by Arnold Clark in '95 and renamed as Machargs by them before further being renamed as Arnold Clark itself, still exists as an AC Nissan dealership.

Regards Verve, it wasn't originally called Gael Motor Co/Group then renamed to Verve in the late 90s, what happened was Verve took over Gaels in 2005, by which time they'd closed their Hyundai dealership on Barrhead road in Crookston (tye former Westcars VW/Audi/Alfa Romeo branch) leaving just their Hyundai/Suzuki branch at Crookedholm in Kilmarnock, they then took over Bickets in 2009 and closed the Gael Crookedholm branch moving the Hyundai/Suzuki franchises to the Bickets premises, in spring 2011 they lost/gave up the Suzuki franchise, then in August, some 2 and a half years after closing the Gael Crookedholm dealership they reopened one half of it as a Ssang Yong and used car branch.

Arnold Clark have also just taken on the Skoda franchise at the Phoenix in Linwood in one half of the Seat showroom which is bizarre considering when Arnolds bought Ingrams at Rowan Street Paisley they ditched the Skoda franchise there to put their Seat branch relocated from Elderslie into the ex Skoda showroom alongside VW before they then relocated again to Linwood.

Interesting to hear that Arnold has bought Halleys of Milngavie as it's a small site with very little space and tbh can't see what they'll do with it other than bin the Subaru, Isuzu, Daihatsu and Suzuki franchises they don't have and aren't interested in.

Also interesting to know Ross of Lanark have a tie in with Woods in West Calder, have woods taken them over now then?

Ps hello Toaster Pilot, it's Hendry from Astra Owners Network.

[HendryG]

Angelus said:

I only remember from the late '70s. I didn't move to Scotland until then. Taggarts in Carluke were the Leyland garage, I don't remember a Ford one? You're right about the Motorstore in Netherton. Ian Skelly was going to make a comeback and financed a venture, but when someone makes you an offer you can't understand? You take the money and sit back. Some friends spoke to him quite a lot in 2008, when organising Dougie Arnotts testimonial they wanted him to sponsor the game so they had authentic replica shirts from when he played at Motherwell. Some of his stories must be fascinating.

I remember working in the very first SEAT dealership in central Scotland, anyone remember where it was? It was short lived and a bit of shambles.

Not sure on THE earliest one but I know of a few early ones. Arnold Clark in Prestwick which lasted a couple of years until becoming Nissan that wouldve been '88 at a guess, Steedman of Kelvindale also '88, Haldanes of Cathcart maybe '86/'87 and Whitecraigs Motor Co who also were Saab and Suzuki dealers at Tantallon road in Shawlands maybe '86/87 and the only one to last any length of time was Haldanes who closed in 2000, of course there was also W Livingstone Ltd in Uddingston which still exists to this day but they came much later, 1991 I think.

On the subject of Taggarts, weren't they quite big for a while, Jag and Austin Rover in Dunfermline/Kirkcaldy, and a Saab branch in Falkirk, also a Fiat branch in Stepps, a Austin Rover one in Milngavie and Renault in Bellshill now they only have 2 sites.

Similar story with Parks they've lost more franchises than anyone outside AC had to begin with, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Daihatsu, Ford, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Peugeot, Seat, Toyota and Vauxhall to name a few, either the manufacturers found they were a nightmare to deal with(personal experience as a customer tallies with this) or they weren't shifting enough metal

Edited by HendryG on Monday 2nd January 03:54

[ian2144]

duckwhistle said:

'The Lotus Scam'. An earlier poster asked about this. Not exactly a scam as it was perfectly legal in theory. This is the gist. Basically if you bought parts and built a car there was no purchase tax (pre vat times) Kit cars were popular,built mostly from recovered parts and the most awful glassfibre bodies imaginable. Lotus cars being in this market supplied a kit to build an Elan, The kit consisted of a built wired and trimmed body, An engine & gearbox, a set of suspension parts and wheels. Thus a new Elan could be supplied as separate 'parts' for tax purposes ie tax free. However this came with some important legal tax conditions, The 'parts' could not be supplied by one firm. You could not engage ANY professional help to construct the car even collecting the parts had to be done without pro help of any kind. You had to build the car yourself away from any pro premisis. This was supervised & strictly enforced by Customs & Excise who can be tricky about infringement of rules. The only pro input allowed was a free saftey check by the lotus agent after construction

How it worked- (allegedly) George Steel of Blythswood Motors supplied the Elan body which was collected from his store an ex tram depot on Kelvinhaugh St. A huge place(full of interesting yanks)and taken to a secret location. Engine etc. was bought from Steelsport, on Govan Rd. Separate companies so legal. Apparently a clandestine group of specially recruited mechanics collected the parts in plain vans and delivered them to obscure lockups conveniently rented by the self build owner. The cars were assembled at night, & weekends,allegedly by said mechs .Only a few hours work ,with the owner in attendance 'helping' so he could at least make a decent stab at explaining how he done the job if asked by C&E. And they did often.

How it went pear shaped- A very well known lady entertainer of the 1960's came to Glasgow and decided to treat herself to a nice new Elan. Now Elans were in short supply, but one was duly found pronto for the lady, Pics in the local paper of her collecting her new car duly appeared with the smiling sales bod handing over the keys. Meanwhile back at C&e a hawk eyed officer of the revenue noticed the said car appeared to be a tax free kit & wondered to himself how this young lady managed to build a kit all by herself as required by the regs and decided to investigate further. Then as they say the efluent hit the cooling module interface.

Now you may ask, how does old duckie know all these things,well I'm buggered if I can remember now, however I do recall towing old George on his water skis all over Loch Lomond while a big hairy dug slept in the back of his black Corvette. Funny what sticks in the mind all these years on.

Thank you for reminding me about Steelsport on Govan Rd, completely forgot about the place. Can remember passing in the car with my Dad and spotting a red Elan through a very grubby window.

[Stuart70]

HendryG said:

This would be Prossers which was took over by Arnold Clark in '95

Good man, that was it, Prossers, was racking what little brain I have for that name for days!

Prosser son, I think had the Ferrari, they also had a boat yard, as referred to earlier in the thread; I have an uncle who sailed, so many long chats had whilst I bounced in and out of various Rovers of the time....

Good memories

[S2red]

Does Mchargs not predate Arnold Clark?

One of the Family used to stay below the in laws in Hyndland and I was under the impression they had been in business for a lot longer that Arnold?

[matchmaker]

S2red said:

Does Mchargs not predate Arnold Clark?

One of the Family used to stay below the in laws in Hyndland and I was under the impression they had been in business for a lot longer that Arnold?

Yes - McHarg, Rennie & Lindsay started in 1921.

http://www.machargs.com/aboutus/history.html

Used to get bits for my Vitesse from Castlebank Street.

[2DDav]

HendryG said:

Also interesting to know Ross of Lanark have a tie in with Woods in West Calder, have woods taken them over now then?

When Ross of Lanark closed their new car sales side they refereed customers looking for new Vauxhall's to Woods & latterly had a couple of new Corsa's from Woods on an SOR basis until they took the decision to close their sales side completely at which point the cars were returned to Woods.
Woods have not bought Ross of Lanark.

[Angelus]

2DDav said:

When Ross of Lanark closed their new car sales side they refereed customers looking for new Vauxhall's to Woods & latterly had a couple of new Corsa's from Woods on an SOR basis until they took the decision to close their sales side completely at which point the cars were returned to Woods.
Woods have not bought Ross of Lanark.

Yip, you're right. You explained it better than me. I was in Ross's last week and was told that Bryce still owns the company.

[HendryG]

Yeah Machargs does predate Arnold Clark, they started out in 1921 and Arnold in 1954, however AC took Machargs over in 1986, ran the site at Castlebank Street under the original Macharg Rennie and Lindsay LTD name until 2000 when it was shortened to just Machargs, they also named the sites they bought from Prossers at Royston road and Lex Rover in Broxburn as Machargs when first acquired although both have since changed to Arnold Clark. Not entirely sure why the name of the Castlebank street site or the new South street site were never changed to Arnold Clark.

Only reason i can think of is that the same happened as happened when they bought Harry Fairbairns which was that as part of the deal to sell Fairbairns to AC was that they to keep the Fairbairn name and not rebrand to Arnold Clark whilst Mr Fairbairns widow was still alive, only when she passes away can
they rename it.

Re: Ross of Lanark, do they not sell any cars at all these days? Not even used ones?

Lanarks car sales have died a death, presumably because they were all small quiet sites and not selling enough, first Ladyacre Peugeot stopped their sales side, then Verve closed the Citroen dealers and now Ross' . I guess massive sites o. Retail parks have killed off small town main dealers.

Lastly, cant find any info on the Arnold Clark takeover of Halleys of Milngavie as mentioned in this topic.

Edited by HendryG on Monday 9th January 21:36

[HendryG]

jith said:

Does anyone have memories of Paisley's motor trade?

Let's start with David Blane and sons. Old David started the business before the war selling American cars; Hudsons and Pontiacs. Ended up with the Jaguar dealership and VW agency. I did some warranty work on Jags then. They lost the agency in the Leyland years and went to Datsun. They had a beautiful showroom with an apartment above. It's now a piece of waste ground!

Also Pottie's for Vauxhall and Bedford light commercial across from the Sheriff Court. They had the slowest, most incompetent parts department in the whole country. You took your flask and sleeping bag when you went to buy parts! They are gone.

Low's Garage supplied Opel cars including the underrated Manta. They too have disappeared.

Then Goudie's Garage were the main dealers for the Rootes group, which of course were manufactured just down the road in Linwood. No longer there, nor is the factory!

Then Young's Ford depot, who became Clanford, the employer of the most ignorant counter staff encountered in the trade. I think they were on bonuses to see how many customers they could offend in a week!!

The showroom is still there but is an independent.

J

I know a bit about Paisleys motor trade.

I believe one of the sons of David Blane went on to work as the commercial vehicle/fleet/business sales specialist at Arnold Clark Vauxhall in Linwood, only recently (2008) retiring, Tony Blane im sure his name was.

For Vauxhall/Opel the dealers in the Paisley area i remember were Lylesland Garage on Espedair Street, County Motor Garage in Johnstone, and Ferguson of Renfrew.

The Lows garage Vauxhall/Opel dealer i know of was at Holmbank Avenue in Glasgow, not Paisley.

Goudies Garage i remember as Peugeot dealers, they lost the franchise in '96 about the same time Johnston the Peugeot dealer in Renfrew started building a new Peugeot showroom at Linwood, Goudies went to Subaru Isuzu and SsangYong franchises before closing down, the site is now flats. Although next door to where the showroom was theres Goudies Funeral Directors, probably the same people.

Lastly Clanfords huge dealership i remember, my dad bought an Orion from there in '94 and a lot of people we know bought cars there, at a time when almost every car on the road was a Ford. Clanford joined forces with the other independent Ford dealers in the area like Wylies, Alexanders, Premier Ford Anniesland, Strathford etc to form First Ford. They started building a new showroom at Linwood because of the impending building of a Safeway/Morrisons supermarket on the site, the bodyshop moved to Wallneuk road where its still used complete with old Ford signage as the valet shop for the AC/ex Reg Vardy Fiat site on Renfrew road, the merger didnt work, group ran into financial problems and AC/Reg Vardy split the group between them. One of the ones AC got was Clanford, ran the site there till 04 when Linwood site was completed. Moved the business and one side got demolished, the old used car centre has housed a few used car dealers since.

[ian2144]

HendryG said:

Not sure on THE earliest one but I know of a few early ones. Arnold Clark in Prestwick which lasted a couple of years until becoming Nissan that wouldve been '88 at a guess, Steedman of Kelvindale also '88, Haldanes of Cathcart maybe '86/'87 and Whitecraigs Motor Co who also were Saab and Suzuki dealers at Tantallon road in Shawlands maybe '86/87 and the only one to last any length of time was Haldanes who closed in 2000, of course there was also W Livingstone Ltd in Uddingston which still exists to this day but they came much later, 1991 I think.

On the subject of Taggarts, weren't they quite big for a while, Jag and Austin Rover in Dunfermline/Kirkcaldy, and a Saab branch in Falkirk, also a Fiat branch in Stepps, a Austin Rover one in Milngavie and Renault in Bellshill now they only have 2 sites.

Similar story with Parks they've lost more franchises than anyone outside AC had to begin with, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Daihatsu, Ford, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Peugeot, Seat, Toyota and Vauxhall to name a few, either the manufacturers found they were a nightmare to deal with(personal experience as a customer tallies with this) or they weren't shifting enough metal

Edited by HendryG on Monday 2nd January 03:54

Taggarts Fiat Dealership in Stepps was previously Parkers, if memory serves, also the Austin/Rover garage in Milngavie was a Toyota dealership in the late 60's early 70's but I don't think it was Taggarts. Can't remember, may have been Milngavie Motors. But that was a new Ford showroom by the canal at Temple in 1975.

[IainW]

HendryG said:

Only reason i can think of is that the same happened as happened when they bought Harry Fairbairns which was that as part of the deal to sell Fairbairns to AC was that they to keep the Fairbairn name and not rebrand to Arnold Clark whilst Mr Fairbairns widow was still alive, only when she passes away can they rename it.

Someone told me it was because BMW didn't want their name associated with the slightly bad rep AC has and insisted it had to stay as Fairbairns.

HendryG said:

Lastly, cant find any info on the Arnold Clark takeover of Halleys of Milngavie as mentioned in this topic.

Edited by HendryG on Monday 9th January 21:36

Me neither. It was mentioned to me by a car salesman for an independent franchised garage a few weeks back and that's why I brought it up.

[HendryG]

IainW said:

HendryG said:

Only reason i can think of is that the same happened as happened when they bought Harry Fairbairns which was that as part of the deal to sell Fairbairns to AC was that they to keep the Fairbairn name and not rebrand to Arnold Clark whilst Mr Fairbairns widow was still alive, only when she passes away can they rename it.

Someone told me it was because BMW didn't want their name associated with the slightly bad rep AC has and insisted it had to stay as Fairbairns.

HendryG said:

Lastly, cant find any info on the Arnold Clark takeover of Halleys of Milngavie as mentioned in this topic.

Edited by HendryG on Monday 9th January 21:36

Me neither. It was mentioned to me by a car salesman for an independent franchised garage a few weeks back and that's why I brought it up.

Im not sure on the BMW thing but i do recall talking to a taxi driver once who said that the reason AC didnt have Skoda, BMW or Mercedes franchises was because the manufacturers wouldnt give them the franchise due to bad reputation, of course since then theyve somehow gained Skoda and BM, supposedly this was why they went without the Forc franchise for a while, they didnt have it, then years later opened a Ford branch in Helensburgh for a few years which was their only Ford branch, then it changed to VW and they went without it for a few more years until the takeover of Cordiners and Harpers Ford in Aberdeen.

Also find it odd how AC survived, at the end of the 80s they were in big trouble and nearly folded. They totally turned it round, also they werent that big during the 70s/80s/early 90s when everyone else was bigger and made more acquisitions. Many have now got a lot smaller, went out of business, sold out, left the industry or broke up, while he's managed to stay in business.

[P2 DJX]

Part of the problem with AC is that although his garages have a terrible reputation which is mostly spread by word of mouth or Internet forums - No newspaper etc will publicly bad mouth him due to the amount of advertising AC pays for within these publications. Pick up any scottish regional or local newspaper and the back 3-6 pages will be full of AC's ads - and that cant be cheap !

My father is retiring in less than 3 months and has decided to treat himself to a new car - he has had a company car for 20 years which gets handed back on his last day. We were shopping about looking for something that ticked all the boxes for him. He has a budget of £25k cash . His first tick box was that his money would NOT go into any AC's stealerships ! !

In the end he has ordered a Hyundai i40 Tourer top spec in white due for delivery at his house 1st April. Bought from Taggarts , and the sales staff couldnt have been anymore helpful . A far cry from the abrupt attitude given by the AC salesman when my dad enquired in there for the sole purpose of getting a price to take to Taggarts to haggle with.

[2DDav]

HendryG said:

Re: Ross of Lanark, do they not sell any cars at all these days? Not even used ones?

Lanarks car sales have died a death, presumably because they were all small quiet sites and not selling enough, first Ladyacre Peugeot stopped their sales side, then Verve closed the Citroen dealers and now Ross' . I guess massive sites o. Retail parks have killed off small town main dealers.

Edited by HendryG on Monday 9th January 21:36

Ross of Lanark closed their car sales entirely at the end of 2011, with the last year or so just selling used vehicles after giving up their Vauxhall franchise. They have still retained their workshop's which are still a Vauxhall approved Masterfit centre & are able to carry out warranty work.

[IainW]

P2 DJX said:

Part of the problem with AC is that although his garages have a terrible reputation which is mostly spread by word of mouth or Internet forums - No newspaper etc will publicly bad mouth him due to the amount of advertising AC pays for within these publications. Pick up any scottish regional or local newspaper and the back 3-6 pages will be full of AC's ads - and that cant be cheap !

Too true. I was told a few years ago that he spent over £1 million a year in advertising in the papers, so obviously they're going to overlook any stories of bad treatment.

Somebody mentioned Lanark. Was there a Ford garage there at some point? An old work colleague of mine said he worked at a Ford garage in Lanark when he did his apprenticeship many years ago.