V8 Flapper system - stopped starting!!
Discussion
A mildly modified Mk2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztGgycd5vso
I'd like to tell you it was a Rover V8 with a fast cam, but that would not be absolutely correct. LSsomething with twin turbo. I'm sure it's a well known car now, but must have been jaw dropping for the hot hatch brigade when it first appeared at Santa Pod and similar "It's only an old Granny, I'll have that wiv my HonSaxesta. Innit"
Has also achieved a top speed in excess of 200mph. Exceptional.
Has also achieved a top speed in excess of 200mph. Exceptional.
So....finally got hold of another ECU....and....no difference.
Still fires up for a second then dies regardless of throttle position, fuel pump relay being bridged or not, AFM being wedged open or CSI being disconnected. Only thing that makes a difference is unplugging the power resistor and then it won't fire at all.
Tried putting the old coil back on in case the new Lucas one somehow wasn't coping once the engine had fired but no joy. Tried starting with the fuel filler cap off but again no joy. Not certain if it's a fuel or ignition problem.
New ECU is a case of "was working fine when it was removed 2 years ago" so a bit of an unknown but am inclined to think it would be quite long odds of having the exact same fault as mine...but you never know.
Not sure if a problem with the the CTS, EAV or Thermotime switch would make it cut out once it is running?
A bit puzzled!
Still fires up for a second then dies regardless of throttle position, fuel pump relay being bridged or not, AFM being wedged open or CSI being disconnected. Only thing that makes a difference is unplugging the power resistor and then it won't fire at all.
Tried putting the old coil back on in case the new Lucas one somehow wasn't coping once the engine had fired but no joy. Tried starting with the fuel filler cap off but again no joy. Not certain if it's a fuel or ignition problem.
New ECU is a case of "was working fine when it was removed 2 years ago" so a bit of an unknown but am inclined to think it would be quite long odds of having the exact same fault as mine...but you never know.
Not sure if a problem with the the CTS, EAV or Thermotime switch would make it cut out once it is running?
A bit puzzled!
You can unplug the thermotime switch and the extra injector to take that out of the equation.
You can unplug the CTS and stick in a short or (preferably) a 300 ohm resistor to take that out too.
Did you try the "injector click" test with this ECU too?
You're getting towards the stage where you need an oscilloscope to check the pulsed signals.
The other main thing that you're stuck with is the wiring loom, so you can use a continuity tester to check from each plug on the engine side back to the ECU multiplug, one by one, to check the wires are all good. Wiggle the loom about when you do each one in case there's an intermittent fault and it cuts out when the engine moves. This check is is tedious but cheap. Use HJ2's wiring diagrams (or the Rover Vitesse EFi one) to work out which wire goes to which ECU pin.
You can unplug the CTS and stick in a short or (preferably) a 300 ohm resistor to take that out too.
Did you try the "injector click" test with this ECU too?
You're getting towards the stage where you need an oscilloscope to check the pulsed signals.
The other main thing that you're stuck with is the wiring loom, so you can use a continuity tester to check from each plug on the engine side back to the ECU multiplug, one by one, to check the wires are all good. Wiggle the loom about when you do each one in case there's an intermittent fault and it cuts out when the engine moves. This check is is tedious but cheap. Use HJ2's wiring diagrams (or the Rover Vitesse EFi one) to work out which wire goes to which ECU pin.
Just tried unplugging the TTS and CSI, also bridging the CTS but to no avail.
Still no injector click with the new ECU. Will do a complete continuity test of the loom on Saturday.
If I had some spare cash this would be the perfect excuse to buy another car with a running V8 for reference purposes!
Cheers!
Still no injector click with the new ECU. Will do a complete continuity test of the loom on Saturday.
If I had some spare cash this would be the perfect excuse to buy another car with a running V8 for reference purposes!
Cheers!
Heavy, on the basis that the ECU is probably OK (although don't completely close off the possibility that the replacement ECU is defective as well), do you have voltages in the red area marked?
Assuming (ha!) that the injectors are opening momentarily to give the initial firing, then - logically - there needs be a signal to the ECU to keep firing the injectors. There must be a signal from the ignition amp (WB wire into ECU term 1) to achieve initial firing, although it might be an erratic signal.
Terminal 36 in the AFM (UP wire to terminal 20 on the ECU) looks interesting, does it signal to the ECU that the ignition is on and the main relay is energised?
Assuming (ha!) that the injectors are opening momentarily to give the initial firing, then - logically - there needs be a signal to the ECU to keep firing the injectors. There must be a signal from the ignition amp (WB wire into ECU term 1) to achieve initial firing, although it might be an erratic signal.
Terminal 36 in the AFM (UP wire to terminal 20 on the ECU) looks interesting, does it signal to the ECU that the ignition is on and the main relay is energised?
She's alive!!
Got a helping hand from my mate who's an electrician and V8 mk3 Cortina owner....had him hold a spark plug against the engine while I turned it over and he noticed that the spark died as soon as the engine caught and I let go of the key ie. spark with ignition barrel in position 3 but not position 2....checked voltage at coil +ve with the ignition on position 2....nothing. Then we (he) ran another wire in and hey presto eight cylinders of British (American) Iron (Aluminium) in all it's glory!!
Definitely one for all in a similar situation to try sooner rather than later as I have now learned.
HUGE thanks and appreciation to all who have helped out, especially impressive considering this is a TVR forum and the car in question is a Granada!
Now I am able sell this fine beast in order to satisfy the avarice of British Gas, Southern Electric, Wessex Water, various oil companies, my landlord and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.........
Got a helping hand from my mate who's an electrician and V8 mk3 Cortina owner....had him hold a spark plug against the engine while I turned it over and he noticed that the spark died as soon as the engine caught and I let go of the key ie. spark with ignition barrel in position 3 but not position 2....checked voltage at coil +ve with the ignition on position 2....nothing. Then we (he) ran another wire in and hey presto eight cylinders of British (American) Iron (Aluminium) in all it's glory!!
Definitely one for all in a similar situation to try sooner rather than later as I have now learned.
HUGE thanks and appreciation to all who have helped out, especially impressive considering this is a TVR forum and the car in question is a Granada!
Now I am able sell this fine beast in order to satisfy the avarice of British Gas, Southern Electric, Wessex Water, various oil companies, my landlord and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.........
heavy squad said:
She's alive!!
Got a helping hand from my mate who's an electrician and V8 mk3 Cortina owner....had him hold a spark plug against the engine while I turned it over and he noticed that the spark died as soon as the engine caught and I let go of the key ie. spark with ignition barrel in position 3 but not position 2....checked voltage at coil +ve with the ignition on position 2....nothing. Then we (he) ran another wire in and hey presto eight cylinders of British (American) Iron (Aluminium) in all it's glory!!
Definitely one for all in a similar situation to try sooner rather than later as I have now learned.
HUGE thanks and appreciation to all who have helped out, especially impressive considering this is a TVR forum and the car in question is a Granada!
Now I am able sell this fine beast in order to satisfy the avarice of British Gas, Southern Electric, Wessex Water, various oil companies, my landlord and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.........
Good news! Don't forget to remove the wiring shorts that you fitted to make the fuel pump run at all times.Got a helping hand from my mate who's an electrician and V8 mk3 Cortina owner....had him hold a spark plug against the engine while I turned it over and he noticed that the spark died as soon as the engine caught and I let go of the key ie. spark with ignition barrel in position 3 but not position 2....checked voltage at coil +ve with the ignition on position 2....nothing. Then we (he) ran another wire in and hey presto eight cylinders of British (American) Iron (Aluminium) in all it's glory!!
Definitely one for all in a similar situation to try sooner rather than later as I have now learned.
HUGE thanks and appreciation to all who have helped out, especially impressive considering this is a TVR forum and the car in question is a Granada!
Now I am able sell this fine beast in order to satisfy the avarice of British Gas, Southern Electric, Wessex Water, various oil companies, my landlord and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.........
Don't worry V8 Fettler the relays are back as they should be....bit of a strange one really as I think the ignition relay wouldn't normally have a separate feed from position 3 as the feed from position 2 would still be live when cranking but either way she's running again.
And Adam - I'm afraid it's too late....she's off to her new owner tomorrow....hey ho
And Adam - I'm afraid it's too late....she's off to her new owner tomorrow....hey ho
Yes - although it does depend on the coil (that is, does the coil require a ballast resistor?) So either the position 2 ignition is wired direct to the coil (more usual these days) or via a ballast resistor (that might have blown) or else the switch contact itself had failed.
Agreed the click test still needs sorting to get the enrichment correct when you stamp on the accelerator.
Agreed the click test still needs sorting to get the enrichment correct when you stamp on the accelerator.
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