HT Leads....what flavour?
Discussion
honestjohntoo said:
At the tender age of 76, my electronic fundamentals recall can range from - 'utter crap' to 'well thought out' - you decide?
76...I take my hat off to you..Have you always been honest?...If you owned a Wedge you would be up for the "Personality of the year" award..Thanks for your world of info....Ziga
honestjohntoo said:
effective suppression depends largely upon two constant components.
Lead Resistance and Lead Capacitance. The classic C x R circuit?
....
At the tender age of 76, my electronic fundamentals recall can range from - 'utter crap' to 'well thought out' - you decide?
That's pretty sound, from a suppression point of view the R is in fact a damping resistor in an LCR circuit, the C being the lead capacitance as you say (all the way through to the top of the coil) and the L being the coil inductance. The C and L form a tuned circuit (in fact a good spark gap transmitter!) and the R interferes with the oscillations and reduces radio interference.Lead Resistance and Lead Capacitance. The classic C x R circuit?
....
At the tender age of 76, my electronic fundamentals recall can range from - 'utter crap' to 'well thought out' - you decide?
However, much like the other thread you've seen, we drive wedges with loud exhausts, and generally have no desire so listen to the radio while the engine is running, much less notice any "crackle" in the audio ;^) Personally the front of my stereo went in the filing cabinet the first day I bought the car!
So I'm mainly concerned about the spark itself and not so much any nasty RFI, and especially any possibility that the spark might be weaker on one cylinder or another. Put it this way... my grandad's book on induction coils and making big sparks with them has no mention of resistive leads.... it's copper all the way.
[Practical Induction Coil Construction - No.8 Marshall's Practical Manuals. 1/- net]
adam quantrill said:
That's pretty sound, from a suppression point of view the R is in fact a damping resistor in an LCR circuit, the C being the lead capacitance as you say (all the way through to the top of the coil) and the L being the coil inductance. The C and L form a tuned circuit (in fact a good spark gap transmitter!) and the R interferes with the oscillations and reduces radio interference.
However, much like the other thread you've seen, we drive wedges with loud exhausts, and generally have no desire so listen to the radio while the engine is running, much less notice any "crackle" in the audio ;^) Personally the front of my stereo went in the filing cabinet the first day I bought the car!
So I'm mainly concerned about the spark itself and not so much any nasty RFI, and especially any possibility that the spark might be weaker on one cylinder or another. Put it this way... my grandad's book on induction coils and making big sparks with them has no mention of resistive leads.... it's copper all the way.
[Practical Induction Coil Construction - No.8 Marshall's Practical Manuals. 1/- net]
Stereo slot in dash is useful for storing sun glasses and ear plugs.However, much like the other thread you've seen, we drive wedges with loud exhausts, and generally have no desire so listen to the radio while the engine is running, much less notice any "crackle" in the audio ;^) Personally the front of my stereo went in the filing cabinet the first day I bought the car!
So I'm mainly concerned about the spark itself and not so much any nasty RFI, and especially any possibility that the spark might be weaker on one cylinder or another. Put it this way... my grandad's book on induction coils and making big sparks with them has no mention of resistive leads.... it's copper all the way.
[Practical Induction Coil Construction - No.8 Marshall's Practical Manuals. 1/- net]
Yeah except mine is still full of the head end and the slot in that onlay takes Minidiscs.
Getting back to the leads, given that the Wedge king lead is much longer than usual applications that the ignition system is designed for, maybe a good compromise is to have a resistive king lead (about 3-4k ohms with the length we have to put up with) and copper plug leads.
Getting back to the leads, given that the Wedge king lead is much longer than usual applications that the ignition system is designed for, maybe a good compromise is to have a resistive king lead (about 3-4k ohms with the length we have to put up with) and copper plug leads.
adam quantrill said:
Yeah except mine is still full of the head end and the slot in that onlay takes Minidiscs.
Getting back to the leads, given that the Wedge king lead is much longer than usual applications that the ignition system is designed for, maybe a good compromise is to have a resistive king lead (about 3-4k ohms with the length we have to put up with) and copper plug leads.
You're looking at this the wrong way round. Set the minimum quality for the spark (energy and duration I would assume), then select the hardware that achieves this.Getting back to the leads, given that the Wedge king lead is much longer than usual applications that the ignition system is designed for, maybe a good compromise is to have a resistive king lead (about 3-4k ohms with the length we have to put up with) and copper plug leads.
For starting issues, I can confirm that using a 24v agricultural battery generally resolves things
honestjohntoo said:
Sadly, these two quotes seem to represent much that can go wrong with selection of High Tension Spark Plug Leads for the RV8 Efi Engine
Rob
A somewhat condescending response to a perosnal contribution expressed based on personal experience. I may not be as well read on HT lead sparking characteristics as the clearly knowledgeable commentor, however, I chose the Forumla Power lead for several reasons :-Andy JB said:
Changed to 10mm from Formula Power 02088 969172 with 10 yr Gtee - not cheap but work well with useable g'tee & great reputation.
The latter selected leads with a thin wire and inevitable low resistance as opposed to the necessary carbon composition conductors etc 10mm leads into smaller separators will inevitable cut the expensive insulation unless unsuitable larger separator are found. Oh dear! Rob
1) they had a good reputation with decent useable warranty in the event of failure. Spoke to the owner prior to purchasing as its only a small co. So far been perfect. No problems with fitting & seat nicely onto plug extenders.
2) Magnecors lasted 10 years of extreme use in my 500 which to me offers good life for the environment, I finally snapped one! A balanced view based on my experience and not rhetoric.
3) Origninal LR leads purchased when i had the car in 2004 were awful IMO & 2x sets failed within 4 mnths.
Sorry if you disagree but its my opinion ie Stnd ones failed, aftermarket options worked /work very well. Oh & colour had nothing to do with my choice.
matt-man said:
By pure coincidence I have just ordered a set for the wedge. I got mine from powerspark and will be intrigued to see what they are like. They are making a kinglead to my desired length too as the normal sets never have a long lead for this.
28 quid delivered... Seems very cheap to me.
@ matt-man; how are they holding? Bosch is the simple solution, but i like shiny blue ones. 28 quid delivered... Seems very cheap to me.
johndvh said:
matt-man said:
By pure coincidence I have just ordered a set for the wedge. I got mine from powerspark and will be intrigued to see what they are like. They are making a kinglead to my desired length too as the normal sets never have a long lead for this.
28 quid delivered... Seems very cheap to me.
@ matt-man; how are they holding? Bosch is the simple solution, but i like shiny blue ones. 28 quid delivered... Seems very cheap to me.
Standard RR ones here too...I know people use Magnecor and the like but if you do the maths and work out the degrading of the efficiency of the leads in a 5 year period then the cost is actually cheaper to replace a good standard set every year knowing that you will have a good efficient spark...
Hi Wedgies 
Here's my take, and it's based on thousands of miles of real world driving in my Chimaera burning LPG using 40,000v MSD coil packs running wasted spark (double the spark events), all of which puts demands on the HT leads way beyond anything a distributor equipped RV8 TVR running on petrol will ever experience.
If you want to sort the good leads from the "BS marketing" leads then my set up will quickly reveal the truth, my gas powered stand alone ECU equipped TVR will either eat the leads for breakfast or identify the the brand that can really take some serious abuse!
And.... after all my testing I can conclusively confirm with 100% total confidence the truth is Magecors are total junk!!!!
I used the red KV85 leads and blew them to smithereens in no time at all, even before their catastrophic failure they gave proven and recorded micro misfires that in turn created AFR anomalies, unstable idle issues and poor drivability.
Magnecor KV85 leads may work acceptably on a traditional single canister coil & distributor set up as they're hardly being pushed at all, indeed I ran some just like this for a year or so with no real issues.
But my LPG Chimaera quickly revealed Magnecors are not all that!
If you want the best you absolutely must try a set of MSD Super Conductor leads.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=143...
Trust me, I've tested the lot on my LPG wasted spark Chimaera running 40kv MSD coil packs... and the only HT leads I'll entertain are MSD Super Conductors.
If MSD Super Conductors can survive on my TVR, you can be sure they're the best you can get !
Just buy a Chevy set (small block Chevy) with the right distributor and plug ends from Summit Racing using their pre-paid import duty option known as I-Parcel and you will be looking at around £100 a set all in, not cheap but the best seldom is! Saying that Magecors are £150 a set and you'll be making an immediate £150 mistake if you choose them.
Hope this helps?
Dave
Here's my take, and it's based on thousands of miles of real world driving in my Chimaera burning LPG using 40,000v MSD coil packs running wasted spark (double the spark events), all of which puts demands on the HT leads way beyond anything a distributor equipped RV8 TVR running on petrol will ever experience.
If you want to sort the good leads from the "BS marketing" leads then my set up will quickly reveal the truth, my gas powered stand alone ECU equipped TVR will either eat the leads for breakfast or identify the the brand that can really take some serious abuse!
And.... after all my testing I can conclusively confirm with 100% total confidence the truth is Magecors are total junk!!!!
I used the red KV85 leads and blew them to smithereens in no time at all, even before their catastrophic failure they gave proven and recorded micro misfires that in turn created AFR anomalies, unstable idle issues and poor drivability.
Magnecor KV85 leads may work acceptably on a traditional single canister coil & distributor set up as they're hardly being pushed at all, indeed I ran some just like this for a year or so with no real issues.
But my LPG Chimaera quickly revealed Magnecors are not all that!
If you want the best you absolutely must try a set of MSD Super Conductor leads.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=143...
Trust me, I've tested the lot on my LPG wasted spark Chimaera running 40kv MSD coil packs... and the only HT leads I'll entertain are MSD Super Conductors.
If MSD Super Conductors can survive on my TVR, you can be sure they're the best you can get !
Just buy a Chevy set (small block Chevy) with the right distributor and plug ends from Summit Racing using their pre-paid import duty option known as I-Parcel and you will be looking at around £100 a set all in, not cheap but the best seldom is! Saying that Magecors are £150 a set and you'll be making an immediate £150 mistake if you choose them.
Hope this helps?
Dave
I am sure the leads Dave recommends are good but I have used magnecors on both my cars over the last 6 years. Also, a couple were damaged, not wear and tear and they were swapped FOC, which was a pleasant surprise.
Wedges don't need the extenders, which are more problematic than leads in my experience. I changed my extenders and bought some of the variable quality ones currently in circulation. They melted but didn't fail. Again, swapped FOC without any drama and I have a set of bosche leads and moroso heat socks ready to fit but the car is running nicely, so for now I am leaving well alone and driving it instead!
Wedges don't need the extenders, which are more problematic than leads in my experience. I changed my extenders and bought some of the variable quality ones currently in circulation. They melted but didn't fail. Again, swapped FOC without any drama and I have a set of bosche leads and moroso heat socks ready to fit but the car is running nicely, so for now I am leaving well alone and driving it instead!
TV8 said:
I am sure the leads Dave recommends are good but I have used magnecors on both my cars over the last 6 years. Also, a couple were damaged, not wear and tear and they were swapped FOC, which was a pleasant surprise.
Wedges don't need the extenders, which are more problematic than leads in my experience. I changed my extenders and bought some of the variable quality ones currently in circulation. They melted but didn't fail. Again, swapped FOC without any drama and I have a set of bosche leads and moroso heat socks ready to fit but the car is running nicely, so for now I am leaving well alone and driving it instead!
As I've said HT leads are not really tested on a petrol RV8 engine running distributor ignition and a single canister coil.Wedges don't need the extenders, which are more problematic than leads in my experience. I changed my extenders and bought some of the variable quality ones currently in circulation. They melted but didn't fail. Again, swapped FOC without any drama and I have a set of bosche leads and moroso heat socks ready to fit but the car is running nicely, so for now I am leaving well alone and driving it instead!
What I'm saying is when you put Magnecors on my wasted spark LPG Chimaera they are revealed as being very wanting in quality and performance, especially when compared with the vastly superior (and cheaper to buy) MSD Super Conductors.
You may never push your Magnecors to the limit like I have, but surly its worth knowing when pushed to the extremes what happens, this type of destruction testing is best practice in the development of any product and I've done it for you.
Personally and based on my experience I wouldn't use Maagnecor leads full stop!
Magnecor did not honour their guarantee in my case, the owner tried to claim the lead was burnt on the header which is total bolax as I was able to offer photographic evidence I was using the extender he insisted was essential, and that I'd even gone one step further by using a heat sock.
My Magnecor leads gave micro misfires and other running issues from new, they then literally blew apart under the 40kv load my MSD coil packs produce.
A switch to MSD Super Conductors transformed the car, and two years on these leads are performing as good as they did on day one. My idle was immediately cleaned up and manoeuvring the car at low speed was massively improved, I also found I was also able to completely delete all the dreadful failure prone extenders with none of the burning issues seen on the Magnecors using extenders!
I have pushed various HT leads to their absolute limit on my TVR, if you know anything about LPG you'll understand why the difficulty in striking this fuel puts massive additional load on coils, plugs and HT leads. You may never push your HT leads anywhere near the levels I do but my experiences still proves if you want the best leads you should walk right past Magnecors and get yourself a set of MSD Super Conductors.
Thems the facts folks!
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