Dead market or what?
Discussion
quote:
I don't know what kind of sheep you have seen! but I saw and heard you car pulling up next to me at some traffic lights I would assume I was about to inhale a lot of burning rubber fumes.
How about a monster in wolfs clothing.
Where was that then? Careful on take off's at the moment due to the cost of tyres
Unless I have to.......
jm,
sorry missed the 'if' out, but thats the good thing about wedges, I have only seen one other one on the road since i got mine. It was dark blue in stevenage sometime last month.
I've seen the pictures of your car in your profile, very nice...
Does that mean most of them are broken?
GF.
>> Edited by gf350 on Saturday 7th September 20:13
sorry missed the 'if' out, but thats the good thing about wedges, I have only seen one other one on the road since i got mine. It was dark blue in stevenage sometime last month.
I've seen the pictures of your car in your profile, very nice...
Does that mean most of them are broken?
GF.
>> Edited by gf350 on Saturday 7th September 20:13
broadside:
I couldn't agree more with you! When I arrived in Germany from the US, the one thing on my mind was to check out all the TVR's that we Yanks have only dreamed about since 1987. My mind was pretty well set on a wedge from the beginning; a 420/450 SEAC or 450 SE. After attending my first Back Home in 2001, and being given rides in a 1992 Griff, an S3c, and a 1987 420 SEAC (thanks to those TVRCC members), I was hooked by the wedge, in terms of each cars unique-ness, as well as the sound of 'catalytic-free' Rover V8. I finally found a 450 SE in April 2002, and have been ever so pleased with the cars performance and looks. I certainly agree that the later the wedge, the better the build quality, mechanics, and for me personally-looks.
Also, we can't forget how that yellow 420 SEAC racer put TVR solidly in the supercar performance arena. I very much think that many of the maintained late wedges have seen about as much depreciation as they're going to see, and those of us who could not afford them when new, are now able to get that 'dream car'. Despite the troubled world economies, the sorted cars will sell quickly. Case in point: In a year and a half of searching, 2 of the 3 450 SE I was interested in sold within one day. I look for the late wedges to appreciate, and be extreme rarities in 20 years.
Shawn
450 SE
I couldn't agree more with you! When I arrived in Germany from the US, the one thing on my mind was to check out all the TVR's that we Yanks have only dreamed about since 1987. My mind was pretty well set on a wedge from the beginning; a 420/450 SEAC or 450 SE. After attending my first Back Home in 2001, and being given rides in a 1992 Griff, an S3c, and a 1987 420 SEAC (thanks to those TVRCC members), I was hooked by the wedge, in terms of each cars unique-ness, as well as the sound of 'catalytic-free' Rover V8. I finally found a 450 SE in April 2002, and have been ever so pleased with the cars performance and looks. I certainly agree that the later the wedge, the better the build quality, mechanics, and for me personally-looks.
Also, we can't forget how that yellow 420 SEAC racer put TVR solidly in the supercar performance arena. I very much think that many of the maintained late wedges have seen about as much depreciation as they're going to see, and those of us who could not afford them when new, are now able to get that 'dream car'. Despite the troubled world economies, the sorted cars will sell quickly. Case in point: In a year and a half of searching, 2 of the 3 450 SE I was interested in sold within one day. I look for the late wedges to appreciate, and be extreme rarities in 20 years.
Shawn
450 SE
Some interesting points in this thread. I'm currently looking to join the TVR set - and have been looking at the S-series, primarily because I think it's a more "classic" looking car.
Having said that I was given the opportunity to drive a 350i at the weekend as was AMAZED at how good the car was... and admit the V8 burble has got me interested in the wedges.
Having briefly looked at prices though, they are higher than the S (although I appreciate that the wedges generally have bigger engines) but my main concern is when I come to move up the chain.
Wedges seem to hang around the classifieds (on PH) longer than most S's (although this is a generalisation) and although tempted it's giving me some other issues to think about.
Having said that I was given the opportunity to drive a 350i at the weekend as was AMAZED at how good the car was... and admit the V8 burble has got me interested in the wedges.
Having briefly looked at prices though, they are higher than the S (although I appreciate that the wedges generally have bigger engines) but my main concern is when I come to move up the chain.
Wedges seem to hang around the classifieds (on PH) longer than most S's (although this is a generalisation) and although tempted it's giving me some other issues to think about.
I bought my '87 350i for less than I sold my '89 S.2.1/2 for. Both were in equally good condition. OK the S.2 had a TVR plate, but so what? Either you know it's a TVR or you don't...
The Wedge is certainly a better all round car than the S.2, from access, to general finish and everyday ride. At the end of the day, if you want to sell any car, you have to price it right and present it right. The ad itself can sell the car. Get the wording wrong and you will be stuck with it!
Another point is where you are geographically. If you live on the Northumbrian coast, you may not attract as many punters as if you are in the home counties. So, if you want a bargain, it may be worth going to look at cars where no buyer has passed before.
Lee
The Wedge is certainly a better all round car than the S.2, from access, to general finish and everyday ride. At the end of the day, if you want to sell any car, you have to price it right and present it right. The ad itself can sell the car. Get the wording wrong and you will be stuck with it!
Another point is where you are geographically. If you live on the Northumbrian coast, you may not attract as many punters as if you are in the home counties. So, if you want a bargain, it may be worth going to look at cars where no buyer has passed before.
Lee
Hi Rev-erend...Heres the link... www.bress.freeserve.co.uk/wedge/classifieds.html
The thing that always puzzles me is why guys (OK, the odd female as well) go through this car thing: you buy a car you've always wanted/ like the look of/ it was cheap etc., chuck pots of cash and years of your life at it and then walk away (i.e. sell it). What's the bloody point? I can understand to a certain extent the guys who get jobs abroad (that's how my 390 came up for sale) but even so, if it's the car of your dreams why not try like hell to hold on to it? Surely you go abroad to earn sh1t-loads of cash, does this not make thngs easier?
Even the arguments about the kit-car build quality etc., WHO GIVES A SH1T??! I have a mate with a Porsche 924, a 944 and a Lotus Elite wedge. I recall when he used to rave over the Lotus, yet the other day he was being scornful to it, citing the German engineering in the Porsches as having 'spoilt' him. Oh, and the 944 will run rings around my 390.
So what? If you want to drive the same thing as THOUSANDS of other folk, be my guest. I happen to like being different; I don't care about the expense/ perceived unreliability/ questionable build/ people staring/ fact that Subarus are faster; I just want to have something that not more than a few thousand people in the history of the world have ever owned. It might not be the best car ever, and it might not be mine 'for life', but when and if the time comes to sell, I can hardly complain that nobody else thinks my obscure car is worth what I think it's worth, or even worth what I've spent on it, because nobody forced me to have a different perception of 'value' to the rest of the sheep... I mean buying public.
Ian
Even the arguments about the kit-car build quality etc., WHO GIVES A SH1T??! I have a mate with a Porsche 924, a 944 and a Lotus Elite wedge. I recall when he used to rave over the Lotus, yet the other day he was being scornful to it, citing the German engineering in the Porsches as having 'spoilt' him. Oh, and the 944 will run rings around my 390.
So what? If you want to drive the same thing as THOUSANDS of other folk, be my guest. I happen to like being different; I don't care about the expense/ perceived unreliability/ questionable build/ people staring/ fact that Subarus are faster; I just want to have something that not more than a few thousand people in the history of the world have ever owned. It might not be the best car ever, and it might not be mine 'for life', but when and if the time comes to sell, I can hardly complain that nobody else thinks my obscure car is worth what I think it's worth, or even worth what I've spent on it, because nobody forced me to have a different perception of 'value' to the rest of the sheep... I mean buying public.
Ian
Good comment
I think that as life progresses, different priorities (and dreams) come along.
I owned a Taimar for 12 years, I sold it for a fraction of what I had spent in that time (over £20K!!) but I'm really pleased that I owned it and I don't regret it one bit, but for me time had moved on. It certainly wasn't the fastest car I owned during its 12 year tenure, but to me it was one of my dream cars.
Unfortunately too many people hold onto the dream too long (and think that others) wish to participate as well and therefore ask unrealistic prices for their cars. If you want to get rid of them in todays markets (where s/h motors are in oversupply) then you've got to be realistic in setting prices. If you don't want to sell then don't worry about your cars value.
I don't regret selling any of my cars, they were all sold quickly (because I was realistic about the value) for valid reasons at the time. I have also sold them quickly and the amount of money I have spent in advertising cars in the last decade £0.00 (Thanks Ted and word of mouth and Mr Garage Trade In)
So as far as I can see Wedges are only moving slowly for two reasons:-
1) Theres not a demand from the buying public for wedges
2) Current sellers set prices too high, anything will shift with the right price tag
Just my two pence early in the morning before I drive to Cardiff.
davidy
I think that as life progresses, different priorities (and dreams) come along.
I owned a Taimar for 12 years, I sold it for a fraction of what I had spent in that time (over £20K!!) but I'm really pleased that I owned it and I don't regret it one bit, but for me time had moved on. It certainly wasn't the fastest car I owned during its 12 year tenure, but to me it was one of my dream cars.
Unfortunately too many people hold onto the dream too long (and think that others) wish to participate as well and therefore ask unrealistic prices for their cars. If you want to get rid of them in todays markets (where s/h motors are in oversupply) then you've got to be realistic in setting prices. If you don't want to sell then don't worry about your cars value.
I don't regret selling any of my cars, they were all sold quickly (because I was realistic about the value) for valid reasons at the time. I have also sold them quickly and the amount of money I have spent in advertising cars in the last decade £0.00 (Thanks Ted and word of mouth and Mr Garage Trade In)
So as far as I can see Wedges are only moving slowly for two reasons:-
1) Theres not a demand from the buying public for wedges
2) Current sellers set prices too high, anything will shift with the right price tag
Just my two pence early in the morning before I drive to Cardiff.
davidy
Wedgie - I know Stig who started this thread is selling his '460se' to help finance his new dream car
- an Ultima.
They do cost about 50K to build.
I also agree that the Wedges are less popular than
say the Griff /Chimp / Cerb and it is this that really
drives down their value. When you can buy a 4.3 Chimp for 11K, then a 400se for 11k seems to expensive. They also live in a niche market.
- an Ultima.
They do cost about 50K to build.
I also agree that the Wedges are less popular than
say the Griff /Chimp / Cerb and it is this that really
drives down their value. When you can buy a 4.3 Chimp for 11K, then a 400se for 11k seems to expensive. They also live in a niche market.
Just to rub your face in it. Over the last 12 years, I had a thing for American classic cars with big V8's and out of about 8 of them, only 2 lost me any money. But then, you have to like to sit in the gutter and accept that you will never get away with overtaking tractors...
After saying that, I made a profit on my S.2, enough to run the 350i for a year or so... Did you pay too much for your wedge in the first place?
After saying that, I made a profit on my S.2, enough to run the 350i for a year or so... Did you pay too much for your wedge in the first place?
Is this still for sale out of interest?
I have to say it is a stunning car. I am an ex Griff500 owner looking to get back in the TVR way as it were but I must confess to being a bit scecptical of "modified" cars. Probably just my ignorance to be fair but I suspect that is the case with many potential buyers.
This is an interesting thread now in the sense that the market value (ie what someone is willing to pay) is never going to be either what the loving owner thinks its worth or, sadly, what they have expended.
What are the likely service requirements of an engine like this? Is it substantially more than a "standard" car? Can only the engine builder be relied upon to work on it?
I have to say it is a stunning car. I am an ex Griff500 owner looking to get back in the TVR way as it were but I must confess to being a bit scecptical of "modified" cars. Probably just my ignorance to be fair but I suspect that is the case with many potential buyers.
This is an interesting thread now in the sense that the market value (ie what someone is willing to pay) is never going to be either what the loving owner thinks its worth or, sadly, what they have expended.
What are the likely service requirements of an engine like this? Is it substantially more than a "standard" car? Can only the engine builder be relied upon to work on it?
Podie Why????
Wedges wern't exactly popular when they were new otherwise TVR would have made 1000s of them.
My two pence says that their prices will never pick up and may even fall further. Generally roundy shaped cars (with classic lines) are preferred by classic car buyers so I reckon that the Griffith prices will stabilise (which they appear to be doing at present)with the S well beneath them, Chimaeras will fall to just below a Griff (less rare) and we will see Wedges sink to the same sorts of prices we are seeing for Ms now (4K buys you a reasonable car). We are probably getting to the stage where there are now old TVRs than there are punters for. This has not been helped by the increasing number of 2 seater roadsters now available on the s/h market.
Just to prove the wedge point look at the Ferrari 308GT4 and the 400 series both wedge like and not valued as highly as the 308/328GTB (pretty car). Also look at Lotus, is the Elite/Eclat popular? no.
davidy
Wedges wern't exactly popular when they were new otherwise TVR would have made 1000s of them.
My two pence says that their prices will never pick up and may even fall further. Generally roundy shaped cars (with classic lines) are preferred by classic car buyers so I reckon that the Griffith prices will stabilise (which they appear to be doing at present)with the S well beneath them, Chimaeras will fall to just below a Griff (less rare) and we will see Wedges sink to the same sorts of prices we are seeing for Ms now (4K buys you a reasonable car). We are probably getting to the stage where there are now old TVRs than there are punters for. This has not been helped by the increasing number of 2 seater roadsters now available on the s/h market.
Just to prove the wedge point look at the Ferrari 308GT4 and the 400 series both wedge like and not valued as highly as the 308/328GTB (pretty car). Also look at Lotus, is the Elite/Eclat popular? no.
davidy
It's funny that you should mention the Ferrari 400, davidy, 'cos I happen to like them, and they're cheap for a Ferrari! There's a convertible for sale in the latest Practical Classics and I think it's only going for about £14K. Nobody else I know likes the 400, but then few people I know like the TVR wedges either.
I've said it before: you need to be a Wedgehead to appreciate them! Let's face it, there are people who love the 2CV, so we're hardly odd! (And the 2CV does have some interesting enginering...)
Ian
I've said it before: you need to be a Wedgehead to appreciate them! Let's face it, there are people who love the 2CV, so we're hardly odd! (And the 2CV does have some interesting enginering...)
Ian
quote:
Podie Why????
Wedges wern't exactly popular when they were new otherwise TVR would have made 1000s of them.
My two pence says that their prices will never pick up and may even fall further. Generally roundy shaped cars (with classic lines) are preferred by classic car buyers so I reckon that the Griffith prices will stabilise (which they appear to be doing at present)with the S well beneath them, Chimaeras will fall to just below a Griff (less rare) and we will see Wedges sink to the same sorts of prices we are seeing for Ms now (4K buys you a reasonable car). We are probably getting to the stage where there are now old TVRs than there are punters for. This has not been helped by the increasing number of 2 seater roadsters now available on the s/h market.
Just to prove the wedge point look at the Ferrari 308GT4 and the 400 series both wedge like and not valued as highly as the 308/328GTB (pretty car). Also look at Lotus, is the Elite/Eclat popular? no.
davidy
I have to disagree, I'm a fairly new wedge owner (this being my first TVR) and I like the shape of them. I like the eclat also which is another car designed by Oliver Winterbottom. I think the cleaness of the lines is attractive and unusual, it has the sharp look of a concept car which is usually smoothed down before production.
I do however prefer the series 1 rear lights but the front spoiler on the series 2 gives it a wonderfully aggressive front and more than makes up for the upside down fuego rear lights.
I think there will always be a new generation that are drawn to the wedge.
You can get one with a rover derived all alloy v8 which sounds superb, they are relitively easy and cheap to fix with good specialist support, the body wont rust (get one with a good chassis).
Its very rare and I feel I am the owner of an important piece of British motoring history, so cost doesn't come into it. The more people like me that come along (and they are judging by his forum) and keep the car as a pampered toy, the harder they will be to find and prices will rise. I don't intend selling mine for a very long time but I wouldn't mind a griff as well though!
Who has the more style, the guy in the Porsche 911 or the one in the Jenson Interceptor.
The wedge has a lot of style as well and most people won't have ever seen one.
Gareth.
>> Edited by gf350 on Tuesday 8th October 22:10
It seems to me that classic car prices tend to peak when a model is in the region of 15 years old.
This is because boys lust after one when they are in their mid teens then can afford one when they are in their 30s.
So I'm afraid it's downhill for wedges.
PS I like Ferrari 400/412s as well. And Mk1 MR2s. and Lotus Excels. And Countachs. And Ferrari Enzymes.
This is because boys lust after one when they are in their mid teens then can afford one when they are in their 30s.
So I'm afraid it's downhill for wedges.
PS I like Ferrari 400/412s as well. And Mk1 MR2s. and Lotus Excels. And Countachs. And Ferrari Enzymes.
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