280 hard start and idle issue

280 hard start and idle issue

Author
Discussion

mrzigazaga

18,561 posts

166 months

Friday 23rd August 2019
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Ah I see...So what happens if once warmed up to temp you blip the throttle via the butterfly on the throttle housing/body...does it return to idle smoothly?..or does it drop in rpm and then pick up...?...If yes then your fuel mixture is out....this will need an adjustment on the sensor plate/metering head....we are only talking 1/4" turn here though....

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
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I'm guessing the near stall out would indicate a lean setting, correct? if so which way on the adjuster makes it richer? CW to lean, CCW to rich?

mrzigazaga

18,561 posts

166 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
Hi Charlie.

Once car is up to temp....Its best with a long allen key.. place the long hex driver etc into the adjuster but pay real close attention to what position it is in was before touching it...like 12 o'clock etc..make a note or take a pic..mark somewhere with tippex on the metering unit where it was also..small increments of 1/4"...Sorry cannot remember lean or rich but try it one way..blip throttle..don't leave the driver in there but again it is imperative that you know what position it was in before removing etc..If moving it one way does nothing...turn it back to where it was and try the same measurement the opposite way...It wont be out by too much and you will find the sweet spot....

Good luck smile

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
thanks Ziga

jeff m2

2,060 posts

152 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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Dropping engine revs when pressing clutch pedal more likely to be a seized release bearing.

On a car that sits and is not driven much, it could free itself, I would sooner sit in the driveway and operate the pedal all day in the hope that happens rather than pull the box.

ETA that's pressing the pedal with motor running obviously.

Edited by jeff m2 on Friday 6th September 02:34

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
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There isn’t any issue with the throw out bearing. This appears to be some vacuum issue or US emissions issue.

KelvinatorNZ

639 posts

71 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
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Has the car been tested for idle CO or anything?

Didnt check the thread, but is the sensor plate in the AFM clean and correctly adjusted?

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Monday 9th September 2019
quotequote all
Hi Ziga,
Do you know what the factory clearance setting should be on the butterfly in the inlet if the manifold for a 280? I see the adjustment nut on top has been damaged a little and I want to check/reset it to spec.

jeff m2

2,060 posts

152 months

Monday 9th September 2019
quotequote all
Close the butterfly "gently" using the stop adjustment, back off half a turn, tighten lock nut.
The purpose is only to prevent the butterfly sticking

Air flow adjustment is done using the screw in the by pass below the butterfly. Aim for 850 when warm. Although you could set it a lttle higher until you find the source of your prob

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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I’ll check mine out and adjust like you described
Thanks
Jeff

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Friday 13th September 2019
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So here’s the latest after adjusting the valves and putting the throttle butterfly back in the correct setting.
Now the car starts and settles down to a nice burble and when it warms up the idle goes up to 1500 or so. Seems backwards right!
Suggestions guys!

mrzigazaga

18,561 posts

166 months

Saturday 14th September 2019
quotequote all
Hi mate

Sorry I didn't get back to you as regards to the butterfly, if it is increasing in idle when warming up then this would kind of suggest that something is opening up to create a leak so I would be looking around air hoses etc, also check to see if the inlet manifold is not leaking, a common place is where the distributor is.

To test:

Once car has reached normal operating temperature the remove the oil filler cap and place the palm of your hand over the opening, rev via the throttle linkage and see if your palm gets sucked to the opening, if yes then this is a sign of a leaking inlet manifold.


Hope this helps


Ziga smile

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Saturday 14th September 2019
quotequote all
Thanks for the next items to check. Sooner or later the problem will surface....I hope

Charlie

mrzigazaga

18,561 posts

166 months

Saturday 14th September 2019
quotequote all
tvrmk363 said:
Thanks for the next items to check. Sooner or later the problem will surface....I hope

Charlie
It sure will..perseverance and being meticulous pays off...smile

jeff m2

2,060 posts

152 months

Wednesday 25th September 2019
quotequote all
With the rpm at 1500 squeeze the black air hose going into the Aux Air Device, if the rpm drop then it means your AAD is not closing when hot.

AAD should be open at cold, closed at hot.

Pull off the hose you will see a small disc that shuts off the cold start air flow.
Although you may not see it if it is stuck open smile

You can de-gunk it in situ with a spray, but it's only a a couple of bolts to remove it and soak it Chem plus 12 or similar then check it with physical heat to make sure the disc is moving.

Once the AAD is operating go back and adj the air by pass screw to get your hot idle where it needs to be.

PS it is generally a good idea to only adj things in the correct order. Check your thermotime swich and AAD are OK and no obvious air leaks.
You can spray almost anything (not petrol) usually brake cleaner around all hose connections plugs etc, if there is a leak you will hear engine note change (improve)

I would stay away from adjusting the idle mixture, that ireally should only be done after all the system and control pressures are known to be correct.

Edited by jeff m2 on Wednesday 25th September 18:55

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Wednesday 25th September 2019
quotequote all
I'll give that a try this weekend. I'll be back in town and will have some time to work on the car.

jeff m2

2,060 posts

152 months

Wednesday 25th September 2019
quotequote all
I'll check back at the weekend to see how it's going.

Remember it's CIS, so any air leak before the lift plate will increase the rpm
An air leak after would lower the rpm and cause lumpy running.

KelvinatorNZ

639 posts

71 months

Saturday 28th September 2019
quotequote all
jeff m2 said:
With the rpm at 1500 squeeze the black air hose going into the Aux Air Device, if the rpm drop then it means your AAD is not closing when hot.

AAD should be open at cold, closed at hot.

Pull off the hose you will see a small disc that shuts off the cold start air flow.
Although you may not see it if it is stuck open smile

You can de-gunk it in situ with a spray, but it's only a a couple of bolts to remove it and soak it Chem plus 12 or similar then check it with physical heat to make sure the disc is moving.

Once the AAD is operating go back and adj the air by pass screw to get your hot idle where it needs to be.

PS it is generally a good idea to only adj things in the correct order. Check your thermotime swich and AAD are OK and no obvious air leaks.
You can spray almost anything (not petrol) usually brake cleaner around all hose connections plugs etc, if there is a leak you will hear engine note change (improve)

I would stay away from adjusting the idle mixture, that ireally should only be done after all the system and control pressures are known to be correct.

Edited by jeff m2 on Wednesday 25th September 18:55
Anyone know how fast the AAD should open and close? I think mine was sticky, so i cleaned it, but dont know how long it should take from fully open to fully closed when heated. Seems to take a while when heating with a heat gun.

mrzigazaga

18,561 posts

166 months

Sunday 29th September 2019
quotequote all
Hi mate

The last time I tested one it took around 2-3 mins to close, I then put it in the refrigerator and it took around the same time to open..I did spray brake & clutch cleaner in there a couple of times, covered the openings with thumb and second finger and shook it up..worked fine after that.


Ziga smile

tvrmk363

Original Poster:

375 posts

130 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
I checked the AAD and it's functioning as it should. I rotated the mixture screw in the fuel distributor a 1/4 turn CCW and now it doesn't stall. The RPMs still dip but it recovers. Might need a 1/4 more. It's still idling high so I need to go over the setting of the butterfly in the inlet of the manifold and set it correctly. I have a feeler gauge clearance setting for my 350i but no info on the 280i. I have set it at 3/16 clearance between the mechanism and the stop on the top of the manifold. Not sure what it's at currently. Then go back and set the idle screw.
I think the idle screw should be fully closed and then backed out two turns.

Any other things to try??
Also, my temp gauge seems to have quit. Anyone have a part number to replace it? I have Smiths gauges.