Lift body from chassis - how to?
Discussion
How difficult is it to remove the body from the chassis of an '86 TVR 280i? I am contemplating a complete restoration of this car. I have Steve Heath's "The TVR Wedges" book and he really does not get into what it takes to remove the body. I have a good assortment of tools and have handled large projects like this in the past. My main concern is making sure that I get all the nuts and bolts and everything else disconnected before I attempt to lift the body off the frame. Is there any place on the net that shows this procedure or anybody out there that can give me some pointers on what I need to watch out for? Thanks for any pointers.
quote:
hey there,
im also from New England, and i planning on doing the 5.0L swap to my 85 280i. where are your from? have you started it yet? please let me know, keep in touch
thanks
mike kenney
You can never have too much power ... but will that chassis take it? The rear suspension has a pretty poor reputation at the best of times! Will be a beast if you manage it though!
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Hi chaps,
I got a few restoration articles on my wedge site. One of the readers is going to put together a full 'nut and bolt' restration article on his 400SE (with plenty of pics) hopefully starting in a few weeks (Xmas permitting).
If you do go ahead regardless, please take lots of pics and if you got the time, send them over and I will add them to the site as well for other wedge owners and enthusiasts around the world to see.
Cheers
Mike
www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk
I got a few restoration articles on my wedge site. One of the readers is going to put together a full 'nut and bolt' restration article on his 400SE (with plenty of pics) hopefully starting in a few weeks (Xmas permitting).
If you do go ahead regardless, please take lots of pics and if you got the time, send them over and I will add them to the site as well for other wedge owners and enthusiasts around the world to see.
Cheers
Mike
www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk
Greenv8s, you are absolutely right. The current rear suspension is the weak link and that's where I expect to spend most of my time re-engineering the setup. I have a few ideas and have spoken to one company that specializes in designing rear suspensions for Cobras using Jaguar components. They are willing to work with me in designing an entirely new rear independent suspension setup mated to the existing chassis. This is not going to be cheap or easy, but if I am going ahead with this conversion I am going to make sure that it comes out right. So, the rear suspension is an area that is definitely not going to be overlooked! First I'll work on the brakes and suspension, then comes the engine...but I still need to get the body off the chasis!
Oh yea, I'd love to hear from anybody that successfully modified the rear suspension to handle more power. If there's an easier approach to my current thinking I'd love to hear about it.
Edited by tvr500i on Thursday 6th December 21:58
Oh yea, I'd love to hear from anybody that successfully modified the rear suspension to handle more power. If there's an easier approach to my current thinking I'd love to hear about it.
Edited by tvr500i on Thursday 6th December 21:58
quote:
...
One of the readers is going to put together a full 'nut and bolt' restration article on his 400SE (with plenty of pics) hopefully starting in a few weeks (Xmas permitting).
If you do go ahead regardless, please take lots of pics and if you got the time, send them over and I will add them to the site as well for other wedge owners and enthusiasts around the world to see.
My project is still very much in the planning stages and will probably not get seriously going till sometime next spring. Once I do start I plan on taking lots of pictures and documenting the entire conversion. In the mean time I am eagerly waiting to see the pictures of that 400SE restoration.
Why not adopt the later suspension set-up from the post 86 V8 cars? As I assume your 280 has the old 'A' arm setup which allowed a bit too much rear wheel movement. It should be relatively straight foward to mount the extra brackets you need on the lower chassis rail for the 'proper' lower wishbone and then you could use your existing trailing arm mount to locate the later one. If you've already got Steves book there should be some pictures of the later rear suspension on the late wedges.
Matt
Matt
Matt, that thought had entered my mind. Good idea, but it is really difficult to get the parts here in the US (actually just about impossible) to convert it to the A-frame suspension setup. The 280i used the trailing arm suspension setup and it is quite different from the A-arms setup. I would need a whole slew of bits and pieces to convert it. Are those parts even still available in the UK? Might have to source them from a wrecking yard and then you never quite know how good they are. Anybody know how easy it would be to obtain all those parts? Unfortunately I cannot make out from the drawings and pictures in Steve's book how different the setup actually is. Can you believe that there are a ton of pictures of the trailing arm suspension setup but not a single picture of the A-arm setup attached to the chassis in the entire book? So, I really don't know how adaptable the stock parts are to the 280i chassis. If the parts are available and if I can adapt the existing chassis to that setup (even if it requires some welding) then it might still be an option.
There is a detailed and as far as I know only existing TVR drawing of an A frame suspension on page 159 in the book. As for converting a trailing arm suspension to the A frame... I know of no-one that has done it. I do know someone that converted a trailing arm to a true double wishbone but that was done by a race prep shop and cost more than the car in the first place. One of the reasons that this was done was the lack of suitable bits. There are virtually no bits out there as they were basically TVR specials and no longer made although the trailing arm stuff is being remanufactured by the Tasmin racing community. Forget any idea of getting this stuff from a scrapyard.
The A frame chassis was also different from the trailing arms. The V8 chassis are different again as they were widened to take the V8 engine and significantly stiffenend to stop chsssis twist and bend under acceleration.
As for taking off the body for a restoration, I would remove the engine and transmission first. This gives you a lot better access. The main body mounts are on the side of the outrigger and over the rear suspension. They do vary as do the number of rubber pads that are used to level the body once it is on the chassis. Be carefull of the wiring looms and fuel lines as they can be intertwined. Jacking the body without cracking it requires a lot of support. If you have access to a lift, support the body and then drop the lift to lower the chassis. Many hands and a lot of foam/cushions will help here. Take a lot of photos so that you can remember where everything gors. These cars are hand built and the parts layout does vary. What was done on one car was not done on the another.
As for a five litre engine... providing it is about the same power as the original no problems. If not then budget to upgrade everything from stiffening the chassis to stop twisting to the gearbox, transmission and so on. The Diff should be OK. In my experience double what you think it will cost and that will be about right.
I have stuck a 5.2 litre competition engine into a 390SE wedge and speak from experience in terms of the rest of the car upgrade. There is a detailed article describing what was done and all the problems scheduled for the TVRCC Sprint magazine this month or next.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
The A frame chassis was also different from the trailing arms. The V8 chassis are different again as they were widened to take the V8 engine and significantly stiffenend to stop chsssis twist and bend under acceleration.
As for taking off the body for a restoration, I would remove the engine and transmission first. This gives you a lot better access. The main body mounts are on the side of the outrigger and over the rear suspension. They do vary as do the number of rubber pads that are used to level the body once it is on the chassis. Be carefull of the wiring looms and fuel lines as they can be intertwined. Jacking the body without cracking it requires a lot of support. If you have access to a lift, support the body and then drop the lift to lower the chassis. Many hands and a lot of foam/cushions will help here. Take a lot of photos so that you can remember where everything gors. These cars are hand built and the parts layout does vary. What was done on one car was not done on the another.
As for a five litre engine... providing it is about the same power as the original no problems. If not then budget to upgrade everything from stiffening the chassis to stop twisting to the gearbox, transmission and so on. The Diff should be OK. In my experience double what you think it will cost and that will be about right.
I have stuck a 5.2 litre competition engine into a 390SE wedge and speak from experience in terms of the rest of the car upgrade. There is a detailed article describing what was done and all the problems scheduled for the TVRCC Sprint magazine this month or next.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Hi guys,
I too am in the middle of a ground up restoration on my 85 280i. I found it in a barn in Lancaster PA, it was already stripped down.Last year I did a full resto on the chasse, Brakes and Diff, I was lucky though because the car came into the US and was never driven or titled. However there are a few bits missing. I just this past summer repainted the body and had the TVR factory make me a new front bumper and spoiler like the UK 350i, Looks great.I was also considering a V8 conversion and had posted my thoughts a couple of years ago on this site and Pete The GreenV8S Chap, shared the same thoughts then as he does know so I decided to beef up the V6 with bigger pistons and Bigger US heads with the 3 port manifolds instead of UK two ported ones, and a stonking big Kent Cam,(thanks for the sound advise Peter) Well Its great and i get about 235bhp instead of the standard 160 but it still handles like my 86 stock 280i with a bit of a kick sand in your face attitude.
Keep in touch
Andrew Newberry
I too am in the middle of a ground up restoration on my 85 280i. I found it in a barn in Lancaster PA, it was already stripped down.Last year I did a full resto on the chasse, Brakes and Diff, I was lucky though because the car came into the US and was never driven or titled. However there are a few bits missing. I just this past summer repainted the body and had the TVR factory make me a new front bumper and spoiler like the UK 350i, Looks great.I was also considering a V8 conversion and had posted my thoughts a couple of years ago on this site and Pete The GreenV8S Chap, shared the same thoughts then as he does know so I decided to beef up the V6 with bigger pistons and Bigger US heads with the 3 port manifolds instead of UK two ported ones, and a stonking big Kent Cam,(thanks for the sound advise Peter) Well Its great and i get about 235bhp instead of the standard 160 but it still handles like my 86 stock 280i with a bit of a kick sand in your face attitude.
Keep in touch
Andrew Newberry
quote:
You might be able to get the lower wishbone and brackets etc from Richard Thorpe at Wedge automotive (see this site for link) as he seems to keep a stock of some 2nd hand parts. He's also a very knowledgeable chap about wedges and may have some suggestions.
Matt
If you're going to the trouble of changing the entire rear suspension, wouldn't you be better off starting with some good strong uprights and designing your own four link system? Because neither of the standard designs look very good to me and I reckon you could do a lot better with a couple of leading links and a single-ended wishbone.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Thank you for all the good feedback that I have gotten from everybody. Good ideas and all the points about it going to cost more and be more work than I am planning is true. Having restored a '46 Cessna and having built my own experimental airplane a few years ago I feel I am ready to tackle a project of this magnitude. I sure appreciate all the wise words in this forum. You can never have enough info before jumping into one of these projects. By the way, in case anybody is interested in upgrading their suspensions, here is a company that I've been in touch with and they really seem to know their stuff: www.cwiinc.com . Their site is a little clumsy and disorganized, but it'll give you some idea of what they are capable of doing. I will likely involve their expertise when it comes time to upgrade the suspension.
Since it seems that several of us stateside are in the process of, or considering, the Ford 5.0L conversion of our 280i's- we should all stay in touch in order to share our best (and worst!) ideas. In case anyone's interested, I have several mock-ups of improved rear suspension designs using the original trailing arm chassis pick-up locations as well as "easy" locations for increasing chassis stiffness (to handle the torque of a stroked 5.0L) using steel U-stock and new tubular cross members.
The best chassis "diagram" I've found so far is in the tasmin parts manual and a few factory floor photos of cars during the assembly process - does anyone have a chassis diagram or factory blueprints with measurements?
Trevor A-B ('87 540i)
The best chassis "diagram" I've found so far is in the tasmin parts manual and a few factory floor photos of cars during the assembly process - does anyone have a chassis diagram or factory blueprints with measurements?
Trevor A-B ('87 540i)
The best and easiest way to stiffen the chassis is to fit a roll bar/roll cage as these traingulate the chassis and stop it flexing and twisting. On the 520 these is a rollbar hoop at the back that is attached to the rear spring platform and rear ouriggers. There are seat mount bars on the outriggers to provide a better mount for the seats but they also help with the chassis. I will be fitting a rest of a cage, front hoop and side bars this year as well. An additional hoop plus plates were fitted in the transmssion tunnel to allow the gearbox to be supported in a cradle so it could be dropped for a clutch change instead of removing the engine. This has done the trick pretty well but I did start with a 390 chassis which has already been beefed up over the 280i one. The rollbar stuff etc came from Tower View and was made exclusively for them by Martin Short at Rollcentre. www.t-v-r-services.co.uk for details.
Gives you a stiffer chassis without contravening any motorsport regs because it is all part of safety equipment (except for the gearbox hoop) and will protect in an accident.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Gives you a stiffer chassis without contravening any motorsport regs because it is all part of safety equipment (except for the gearbox hoop) and will protect in an accident.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Just a quick note on adding a roll bar - the same stiffness benefit is achieved at the front suspension by tying the front suspension pick-ups together as is commonly done on unitary body cars with aftermarket braces. TVR has also figured this out - look at pictures of any modern TVR and especially the Speed12 engine bay. Oddly cross-bracing on the front end is the norm on pre-Tasmin chassis as well...I wonder why such a simple and effective idea was dropped with the Tasmin?
PS-TVR500i, got your email - I'll send you scanned pic's and diagrams after the holiday. Merry Christmas everyone!
PS-TVR500i, got your email - I'll send you scanned pic's and diagrams after the holiday. Merry Christmas everyone!
The front bracing returned with the V8 cars. There is not a strut brace but by moving the rad out into the nose cone, there was plenty of space to beef this up. This is incredibly strong - I have crash tested it enough over the years!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
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