Cold air induction

[dickymint]

www.proven-products.co.uk/viper_induction_kit.htm

Is this what weve all been waiting for?
Well i've not seen it before and judging by previous
threads the V8 needs much cooler air to the plennum.
Any comments?

[broadside]

I knew that you could get these from Demon Tweeks for a while now. It sounds good, but will there be enough clearance under the bonnet for the filter chamber and will there be space for the inlet tubing with ram on it to get to a cold air supply, without melting the tubing on the manifolds or because of the heat under the bonnet anyway.

Would like to see what 2sheds has to say about this. Would look cool under the bonnet with the Viper and one of ACTs Carbon Induction kits !!!!

Nige'

[jvaughan]

I did some research last year regarding induction kits.. came to the conclusion I need to construct an airbox in teh front nosecone, and duct from there. Never did though .. ran out of time

[GreenV8S]

Cold air is well worth having, but those prices are outrageous. You don't need momentum air blast with venturi wotsits, this is marketing mumbo jumbo to push up the price. What you want is a plain pipe from the front of the car to the air cleaner. Ordinary 4" flexi hose will do. If you aren't boxing in the air cleaner, then put the front of the pipe somewhere it will see some ram air - if you're running a sealed system this doesn't matter as long as it is drawing from a cold area.

[montegogt]

Or you could cut a hole in the bonnet and fit the intake off a Pontiac Trans-Am 1973 to 1981 models. They sucked air from outside and also rocked suggestively with engine load. Looked really cool at the lights when you revved it a bit...
A lot of American muscle cars had what they called ram air to their carbs and certainly pulled a few more BHP than the engine bay fed models.
Oh yes, you may have to toss the injection stuff out and fit a Holley carb...

[dickymint]

GreenV8S said:

Cold air is well worth having, but those prices are outrageous. You don't need momentum air blast with venturi wotsits, this is marketing mumbo jumbo to push up the price. What you want is a plain pipe from the front of the car to the air cleaner. Ordinary 4" flexi hose will do. If you aren't boxing in the air cleaner, then put the front of the pipe somewhere it will see some ram air - if you're running a sealed system this doesn't matter as long as it is drawing from a cold area.

Without Giovanni Batista Venturi the Holley carb wouldnt work! But i do agree its a tad expensive.However i doubt that a home made box and pipe etc would be anywhere near as efficient cos ram air alone is dependant on intake area as well as pipe lenghth. Also a Venturi would work whilst stationary.

[montegogt]

Do what???

[Ozzy]

Think that the little number in the white suspenders is more what I am looking for.

[dickymint]

montegogt said:

Do what???

Put another way-the holley carb only works because it uses a venturi. It follows that fuel injection would also benefit from a venturi. Or even better the use of a multi stage ejector which greatly increases the input pressure and flow
www.smcpneumatics.co.uk/pneu_book/vac_tech.htm

[shpub]

Why bother with all that rubbish. What you want is twin 140 psi fuel pumps, three big throttle bodies with 8 "Strewth where did all that fuel go" injectors, two 80mm diameter air intakes taking cold air from the bottom of the windscreen and there is no problem.

Works fine on the 520.

[GreenV8S]

dickymint said:

montegogt said: Do what??? Put another way-the holley carb only works because it uses a venturi. It follows that fuel injection would also benefit from a venturi. Or even better the use of a multi stage ejector which greatly increases the input pressure and flow www.smcpneumatics.co.uk/pneu_book/vac_tech.htm

Venturis are all well and good, but I still reckon that in this particular application the references to the Venturi effect are purely marketting spin. The authors presumably know what a Venturi is and realize that it gives no benefit in this application, but it sounds technical and they hope their readers don't realize this. Venturis are used in carbs to convert between static and dynamic pressure and back again, to produce a local area of low static pressure which can be used to suck fuel out of a jet. Very handy in a carb but no benefit if you're just trying to move cold air from A to B. All you need is a plain 4" pipe with one end fed with cold ram air, and the other end pointing at the air filter. This will work fine when you're moving, but not when stationary. If you want a cold air supply when stationary, you need an induction system which is sealed out to fresh cold air. This means siting the air filter in cold air, or putting the filter in a box which is fed from a pipe out to fresh air. Various companies will supply this sort of inline filter box - for example ITG do a very pretty spun aluminium/carbon one. They work because they are pulling in cold air, not because of anything to do with Venturi effects or 'ram impulse tuning' or any of that nonsense.

>> Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 1st July 17:43

[GreenV8S]

shpub said:

Why bother with all that rubbish. What you want is twin 140 psi fuel pumps, three big throttle bodies with 8 "Strewth where did all that fuel go" injectors, two 80mm diameter air intakes taking cold air from the bottom of the windscreen and there is no problem. Works fine on the 520.

Injectors? I thought you'd replaced them with half inch hose!

[dickymint]

Right thats it! its my ball and i'm goin ome

[HarryW]

Slightly of topic, but here goes . The trumpet base has a water jacket for heating. Has anyone considered plumbing that up with a coolant system such as a air conditioning pipe feed or a bastardised fridge type thing to cool the air as it passes through the trumpet base .
Feel free to laugh, but take the time to pass comment as well .

Harry

[dickymint]

Now thats more like it, a bit of innovation,just what the old V8 needs. Thats how these nandy pandy 1.6 litre
engines have becone so quick over the years.
So come on guys the first rule of brainstorming is not to pick holes in peoples ideas. Nice one Harry.
PS Shpub-someday somehow somebody will modify there wedge to be quicker than yours....without reboring to 6 litres fed intravenously by a BP tanker and a wind tunnel!!

[jvaughan]

dickymint said:

Now thats more like it, a bit of innovation,just what the old V8 needs. Thats how these nandy pandy 1.6 litre engines have becone so quick over the years. So come on guys the first rule of brainstorming is not to pick holes in peoples ideas. Nice one Harry. PS Shpub-someday somehow somebody will modify there wedge to be quicker than yours....without reboring to 6 litres fed intravenously by a BP tanker and a wind tunnel!!

ahh I have Spub's secret. the formula is like this

Wedge + More ££Wedge = Fast Wedge

Fast Wedge x Development + More ££ Wedge

= Faster Wedge.

so .. to get a Wedge faster than Steve Heath you need to take ..

Faster Wedge + Lots more ££ Wedge + More Development

= A lot faster Wedge

[shpub]

HarryW said:

Slightly of topic, but here goes . The trumpet base has a water jacket for heating. Has anyone considered plumbing that up with a coolant system such as a air conditioning pipe feed or a bastardised fridge type thing to cool the air as it passes through the trumpet base . Feel free to laugh, but take the time to pass comment as well . Harry

Already done on a Griff/Chimaera with air con in a roundabout way. The fuel return is fed through an air con cooler to reduce the overall fuel temp. Think of all that weight though and complexity.... Could be done but probably not as as efficient as getting cold air into the engine in the first place.

Also I have not run a heated manifold on the 520 for years.
The 520 currently has air intake temp sensors that display the air intake temp. It is surprising how hot they will reach when idle due to heat soak and how quickly it cools down with the air flow. Like within a few hundred yards. I can see how the temp changes and to be honest the simple ways are great. Nothing to go wrong, light and effective.

I agree with Pete that the most important thing is drawing in cold air. That means sealing the air filter and choosing carefully where the air input should be. It is difficult on a standard car though unless you are prepared to cut bits of bodywork.

Steve

>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 2nd July 07:29

[2 sheds]

I have considered this for the wedge, (enclosed filter housing) but as Steve says its difficult to find a good place to draw cool air, i saw a system fitted to a car many years ago with air pick up too low, in heavy rain did a good impression of an Aquavac !!
Tim

[shpub]

This is the custom designed and built 520 air intake and feeds. The box was made from some ally from a Caterham bonnet which cost me a Fiver and the air hose was another Fiver. The most expensive things were the 80mm jubilee clips.

Little Wedge + time = Faster Big Wedge


www.pistonheads.com/news/images/6822-13.jpg

>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 2nd July 09:57

[jvaughan]

shpub said:

This is the custom designed and built 520 air intake and feeds. The box was made from some ally from a Caterham bonnet which cost me a Fiver and the air hose was another Fiver. The most expensive things were the 80mm jubilee clips. Little Wedge + time = Faster Big Wedge www.pistonheads.com/news/images/6822-13.jpg >> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 2nd July 09:57

hehe it looks like you have stuffed the talkign vacuum cleaner from the TeleTubbies (Noo noo) under the bonnet

why didnt you go for the carbon plenum / throttle bodies steve? I would have thought that these will help stop heatsoak.

Btw, could you not have used a bonnet scoop to bring cold air in ?