Dartford toll free-flow system...(and increased payments)
Discussion
julianm said:
I`ve just had an email from the Dartford folks as I use the crossing once a year & had to subscribe to cough up automatically when I do eventually pass over. They want my opinion. I could send a response to them, but as I know nothing other than that is was and still seems to be a complete PITA very time I ever used it, perhaps you regulars can have a go. From the image on the website it seems the planners are keen to be seen to be down wiv da kids ...
http://www.lower-thames-crossing.co.uk/
They want your opinion but as I said earlier it doesn't look it'll count for much. Don't get too excited about a new crossing just yet as I think you and me will both pass over before anything happens. http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14277036.Governm...http://www.lower-thames-crossing.co.uk/
A Lower Thames Crossing has been argued about for years. It is an inescapable fact that with any proposed crossing, no matter where it is built, there will be those who promptly organise a petition to oppose it. The one linked to in the article is using information which is no longer current and is thereby somewhat disingenuous.
The argument that removal of the Dartford Crossing barriers eases the problem so another crossing is not needed is merely postponing the issue. Furthermore it is not quite the panacea it has been touted as. The northbound flow still gets regularly gridlocked as those who live close to the A282 can testify. Option A at Dartford lacks resilience and shows a distinct lack of strategic thinking because it does nothing to divert any traffic away from that single crossing point. This year will see the 25th anniversary of the opening of the QEII bridge and a whole half century has gone by without any completely new crossing point over the Thames. In all that time there has still not been one in the 12 miles of river between Blackwall and Dartford. Frankly it's a disgrace. Both of these should have been constructed years ago - https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work...
The UK has a long history of interminable discussions and procrastination, funding U-turns, short termism plus a woeful lack of future proofing. What is even worse is its habit of so often backing the wrong horse when it does get off its collective a**e.
38 Degrees petition said:
And with toll gates due to be removed on the existing crossing and bridge from 2014 the problem could be eased without the need to build another.
That clearly shows it originated in 2013 (or even earlier). The thumbnail map is yet further evidence. Option B (the Swanscombe peninsula) is effectively dead in the water. The Paramount Park development has already dealt it a killer blow - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/lower-thame...The argument that removal of the Dartford Crossing barriers eases the problem so another crossing is not needed is merely postponing the issue. Furthermore it is not quite the panacea it has been touted as. The northbound flow still gets regularly gridlocked as those who live close to the A282 can testify. Option A at Dartford lacks resilience and shows a distinct lack of strategic thinking because it does nothing to divert any traffic away from that single crossing point. This year will see the 25th anniversary of the opening of the QEII bridge and a whole half century has gone by without any completely new crossing point over the Thames. In all that time there has still not been one in the 12 miles of river between Blackwall and Dartford. Frankly it's a disgrace. Both of these should have been constructed years ago - https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work...
The UK has a long history of interminable discussions and procrastination, funding U-turns, short termism plus a woeful lack of future proofing. What is even worse is its habit of so often backing the wrong horse when it does get off its collective a**e.
I do think that a lot of the issues around the Dartford Crossing area is caused not by the crossing itself but all the junctions within a few miles. Anti-clockwise there are nearly always queues on the exit slip at junction 30 which can cause the tunnels to close so traffic isn't queuing in them. Same at junction 2 anti-clockwise; there is always a queue on the exit slip not helped by 50% of drivers trying to barge in at the last moment thus causing problems on the M25.
The traffic this week has been pretty dire and not just during rush hour. There has been the odd accident/lane closure but nothing major.
I believe the reason for the traffic is because it's half term so there's been an increase of people going to Bluewater (junction 2) and Lakeside (junctions 30 and 31) which backs up my belief that aiding traffic leaving the M25 (i.e. so it doesn't cause queues on the M25) are perhaps a more immediate priority.
I believe the reason for the traffic is because it's half term so there's been an increase of people going to Bluewater (junction 2) and Lakeside (junctions 30 and 31) which backs up my belief that aiding traffic leaving the M25 (i.e. so it doesn't cause queues on the M25) are perhaps a more immediate priority.
So, what happens if you forget to pay, realise you forgot a little too late, go to pay and receive this message regarding a one off payment:
'Do not use this option if you have received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) with a warning letter. Use the 'Pay or challenge a PCN' option to pay. You won't be charged the penalty if you pay by the date given on the warning letter'
I assume I have a warning on route as I forgot to pay during a mad dash to collect some wheels. When I say I forgot, I actually got home and said to the other half that I must remember to pay for the crossing and then I did some more dashing around and forgot all about it :/
Question is, do I pay or wait for a letter and then pay?
'Do not use this option if you have received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) with a warning letter. Use the 'Pay or challenge a PCN' option to pay. You won't be charged the penalty if you pay by the date given on the warning letter'
I assume I have a warning on route as I forgot to pay during a mad dash to collect some wheels. When I say I forgot, I actually got home and said to the other half that I must remember to pay for the crossing and then I did some more dashing around and forgot all about it :/
Question is, do I pay or wait for a letter and then pay?
Digby said:
So, what happens if you forget to pay, realise you forgot a little too late, go to pay and receive this message regarding a one off payment:
'Do not use this option if you have received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) with a warning letter. Use the 'Pay or challenge a PCN' option to pay. You won't be charged the penalty if you pay by the date given on the warning letter'
I assume I have a warning on route as I forgot to pay during a mad dash to collect some wheels. When I say I forgot, I actually got home and said to the other half that I must remember to pay for the crossing and then I did some more dashing around and forgot all about it :/
Question is, do I pay or wait for a letter and then pay?
Phone them, we were able to pay quite late on a couple of occasions last year, my company had a penalty charge and when they phoned to pay they were told there would be a couple more penalties coming but they could just pay the £6 crossing charges (HGV) there and then. I don't know if they are being so lenient now but it's worth a try.'Do not use this option if you have received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) with a warning letter. Use the 'Pay or challenge a PCN' option to pay. You won't be charged the penalty if you pay by the date given on the warning letter'
I assume I have a warning on route as I forgot to pay during a mad dash to collect some wheels. When I say I forgot, I actually got home and said to the other half that I must remember to pay for the crossing and then I did some more dashing around and forgot all about it :/
Question is, do I pay or wait for a letter and then pay?
chevy55 said:
Phone them, we were able to pay quite late on a couple of occasions last year, my company had a penalty charge and when they phoned to pay they were told there would be a couple more penalties coming but they could just pay the £6 crossing charges (HGV) there and then. I don't know if they are being so lenient now but it's worth a try.
In the end, I just paid online and got the receipt. Will let you know what happens!Should be able to save a few quid with this....;)
http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/dartford-cross...
http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/dartford-cross...
to save a couple of quid!
April already?
Havoc856 said:
I went through on Sunday and rather enjoyed the static arrangement they had there. Must have added 40 mins to my journey... Got to the tunnel... Nothing there to explain. I think someone needs to explain that free flow means traffic moves.
From what I have witnessed since the change in toll processes at the crossing the issue with traffic heading north is caused by the tanker convoys they still have to manage. They take ages to actually get moving even after the lights are turned red and I think they also use both tunnels on a rotation basis. As such the best case is that 2 lanes are taken out whilst these convoys are being managed and the worse case is that all 4 lanes are taken out as the convoy crosses over to the East tunnel. Once the lights go red at any time the speed at which traffic backs up is quite alarming.A huge issue is the west tunnel in that the left hand lane is the only one for HGVs but the either the signage isn't clear well in advance or a lot of HGVs leave it to the last minute to move back to the L/H lane. Unfortunately this is exactly the point where the traffic from the A206 at 1a merges on. Hard to believe they couldn't have improved that when they re-jigged the road post-barriers. I always go through on the East tunnel, you're just asking for delays sticking to the left.
In the news today http://www.kentonline.co.uk/gravesend/news/sort-ou...
"Stationary traffic is more polluting than moving traffic." I wish more local planners would keep that thought in mind.
"Stationary traffic is more polluting than moving traffic." I wish more local planners would keep that thought in mind.
Bit of a thread bump, but I was just reading an article on the local news about how Dartford councillors are eager for the new crossing plans to be pushed through, and in the article was mention of an option that I had previously heard no details on - Option A14.
It would involve a ~7-8m long tunnel which would link the M25 from just south of J2 (A2) to just north of Junction 30. It seems like this would come with some major advantages, such as allowing through traffic that was intending to cross the river to skip Dartford and Thurrock entirely, whilst any local traffic would still be able to use the existing crossing on the A282. The new tunnel could be built to a full motorway standard, meaning the M25 would now truly be a motorway for it's entire orbit. It would also keep traffic moving along the existing corridor (whereas Option C relies on drivers making a huge detour to their journeys, and also makes no provision for increased traffic on roads linking to the M20 such as the A228, A229 and possibly the A249) and would have a lesser environmental impact, whilst taking a lot of the long distance traffic underground and helping to ease pollution.
Unfortunately, I guess this would also be one of the most costly options which is why it's not really been considered at this stage. I just wondered if anyone else following the development of the new crossing had seen this option had any details or opinions they'd like to share?
Details I've found so far are here: http://www.ltca.uk/option-a14.html
It would involve a ~7-8m long tunnel which would link the M25 from just south of J2 (A2) to just north of Junction 30. It seems like this would come with some major advantages, such as allowing through traffic that was intending to cross the river to skip Dartford and Thurrock entirely, whilst any local traffic would still be able to use the existing crossing on the A282. The new tunnel could be built to a full motorway standard, meaning the M25 would now truly be a motorway for it's entire orbit. It would also keep traffic moving along the existing corridor (whereas Option C relies on drivers making a huge detour to their journeys, and also makes no provision for increased traffic on roads linking to the M20 such as the A228, A229 and possibly the A249) and would have a lesser environmental impact, whilst taking a lot of the long distance traffic underground and helping to ease pollution.
Unfortunately, I guess this would also be one of the most costly options which is why it's not really been considered at this stage. I just wondered if anyone else following the development of the new crossing had seen this option had any details or opinions they'd like to share?
Details I've found so far are here: http://www.ltca.uk/option-a14.html
Edited by Conscript on Tuesday 12th July 14:14
Conscript said:
Bit of a thread bump, but I was just reading an article on the local news about how Dartford councillors are eager for the new crossing plans to be pushed through, and in the article was mention of an option that I had previously heard no details on - Option A14.
It would involve a ~7-8m long tunnel which would link the M25 from just south of J2 (A2) to just north of Junction 30. It seems like this would come with some major advantages, such as allowing through traffic that was intending to cross the river to skip Dartford and Thurrock entirely, whilst any local traffic would still be able to use the existing crossing on the A282. The new tunnel could be built to a full motorway standard, meaning the M25 would now truly be a motorway for it's entire orbit. It would also keep traffic moving along the existing corridor (whereas Option C relies on drivers making a huge detour to their journeys, and also makes no provision for increased traffic on roads linking to the M20 such as the A228, A229 and possibly the A249) and would have a lesser environmental impact, whilst taking a lot of the long distance traffic underground and helping to ease pollution.
Unfortunately, I guess this would also be one of the most costly options which is why it's not really been considered at this stage. I just wondered if anyone else following the development of the new crossing had seen this option had any details or opinions they'd like to share?
Details I've found so far are here: http://www.ltca.uk/option-a14.html
Looks good to me. Just cancel HS2 to pay for it.It would involve a ~7-8m long tunnel which would link the M25 from just south of J2 (A2) to just north of Junction 30. It seems like this would come with some major advantages, such as allowing through traffic that was intending to cross the river to skip Dartford and Thurrock entirely, whilst any local traffic would still be able to use the existing crossing on the A282. The new tunnel could be built to a full motorway standard, meaning the M25 would now truly be a motorway for it's entire orbit. It would also keep traffic moving along the existing corridor (whereas Option C relies on drivers making a huge detour to their journeys, and also makes no provision for increased traffic on roads linking to the M20 such as the A228, A229 and possibly the A249) and would have a lesser environmental impact, whilst taking a lot of the long distance traffic underground and helping to ease pollution.
Unfortunately, I guess this would also be one of the most costly options which is why it's not really been considered at this stage. I just wondered if anyone else following the development of the new crossing had seen this option had any details or opinions they'd like to share?
Details I've found so far are here: http://www.ltca.uk/option-a14.html
Edited by Conscript on Tuesday 12th July 14:14
Suggest that everyone avoids the Lakeside (J30/31) area for the remainder of the afternoon if you can.
There has been a loose horse causing problems meaning 1h 40m delays clockwise (queue to J27!) and 1h 15m delays anti-clockwise (queue to j4). Although in my experience these delays are usually underestimated by the Highways Agency.
The horse has been on the loose for over 2 hours. Surely a rifle with a tranquilliser is the answer. Unfortunately all I can imagine is overweight policeman with carrots!!
There has been a loose horse causing problems meaning 1h 40m delays clockwise (queue to J27!) and 1h 15m delays anti-clockwise (queue to j4). Although in my experience these delays are usually underestimated by the Highways Agency.
The horse has been on the loose for over 2 hours. Surely a rifle with a tranquilliser is the answer. Unfortunately all I can imagine is overweight policeman with carrots!!
Gassing Station | Kent & Essex | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff