Thinking of buying a G4
Discussion
Hi,
I was looking into buying a G4 a couple of years ago, from Paul Stephens. I was very impressed with the car, after I fell in love with it completely at the sports car show at the NEC (spring 2002 I guess). The guys at Dare were great, and so was the trip down to Paul a month or so later, and haring throught the Cambridgeshire lanes
However, just before signing on the line I met my wife to be, and I had to shelve the idea
I'm now getting into the position to get one, but I need to know a few things first.
Can you buy them in kit form?
This will be my only car (as my fto will be handed over to my gf [once I've convinced her it's better than her rover 216
]). I only drive about 6 miles from my house to the trainstation, so I don't mind that BUT - it will be in a train station car park all day. Do you think it will be ok left like that? Can they have trackers fitted?
I don't have a garage anymore (the things you can put up with for love!), so it MUST be water tight - are they? I know they were shower proof last time I checked. Or would you advise getting the garage built first? (I'd use another garage to build it in if it was a kit)
And - with GT4 coming out soon, and the world media about to realise what an amazing car the G4 is, when do you think the latest I can order one would be, without being put at number 417th on the list
Cheers,
Dave
I was looking into buying a G4 a couple of years ago, from Paul Stephens. I was very impressed with the car, after I fell in love with it completely at the sports car show at the NEC (spring 2002 I guess). The guys at Dare were great, and so was the trip down to Paul a month or so later, and haring throught the Cambridgeshire lanes
However, just before signing on the line I met my wife to be, and I had to shelve the idea
I'm now getting into the position to get one, but I need to know a few things first.
Can you buy them in kit form?
This will be my only car (as my fto will be handed over to my gf [once I've convinced her it's better than her rover 216
]). I only drive about 6 miles from my house to the trainstation, so I don't mind that BUT - it will be in a train station car park all day. Do you think it will be ok left like that? Can they have trackers fitted? I don't have a garage anymore (the things you can put up with for love!), so it MUST be water tight - are they? I know they were shower proof last time I checked. Or would you advise getting the garage built first? (I'd use another garage to build it in if it was a kit)
And - with GT4 coming out soon, and the world media about to realise what an amazing car the G4 is, when do you think the latest I can order one would be, without being put at number 417th on the list
Cheers,
Dave
Hi Dave,
At one time Dare stopped producing the G4 in kit form, though I think they've started again, but best check with Dare to make sure.
Can't see any problem with fitting a Tracker, which bearing in mind the fact that G4s have no door locks and therefore minimal security could be a good idea. Immobiliser would have to be fitted for SVA anyway of course.
Can't see it being watertight considering the coupe/hardtop version has vent openings in the side windows and the soft top has flappy side screens.
At one time Dare stopped producing the G4 in kit form, though I think they've started again, but best check with Dare to make sure.
Can't see any problem with fitting a Tracker, which bearing in mind the fact that G4s have no door locks and therefore minimal security could be a good idea. Immobiliser would have to be fitted for SVA anyway of course.
Can't see it being watertight considering the coupe/hardtop version has vent openings in the side windows and the soft top has flappy side screens.
PiB said:This is not as difficult as it may sound. Take a look at the living with... section on Stig's Ultima Build Site. He has fitted a remote central locking system to the back of the wheel and voila - removable steering wheel with built in indicator buttons.
As far as security, you could look into getting a removable steering wheel! That may help getting in and out too? Then if one could get the indicators activated via buttons on the wheel!
Whilst I'm here - I'll do the plug for my personal loyalties. G27's are developed from the G4 and as long as you spec the race car uprights are a damn fine handling car. They are available as a kit and I believe that the roof almost works properly on the keeping you dry front
. There is a great article in Race and Track Cars at the moment which features both the road going and race G20. Very complimentary. The G27 is basically the same car as the 20, with a body that contains doors and a boot and a windscreen!
Rich
Thanks for the comments guys.
I know they have them holes in the side, but other than being fiddly, I thought you could get them to 'lock', and hence keep the water out, at least to splash proof levels?
I spec'ed a removable sterring wheel last time, so I thought I'd try it again. The only problem I have with that is carrying it to and from work on the train and tube
And I don't know if I'd try and put the indicators on there - is there really any point? Couldn't it be done with a normal wheel?
I was also thinking of the locking valves - that deflate if you drive off with them activated, but they cause issues with wheel balancing and being fiddly to deactivate in the rain/driving hail/snow/ etc
NOI, but I prefer the G4 - I have no idea why, I just do. Don't get me wrong, I do like the 20, 27 (and the 33), but there's just that little something about the 4 - I think it's becuase it was the first I saw of the series, so it holds a little bigger place in my heart.
I was told of a 27 on eBay lsat night - but it had finished by then - that I would have bought given the chance, as it was going cheap for what it had.
-> I heard that Dare was going to make a 'roadster' version, with a removable hardtop. Did anything come of this?
I'll start asking Dare about these production issues instead.
I don't mind getting the G4 as turnkey (this was what I was doing originally anyhow) - I just thought it'd be nice to build it too.
Looks like I'll need to build the garage first - I'd better start pleading with the council to allow me planning permission for it... or with the misses to move (again...)
I know they have them holes in the side, but other than being fiddly, I thought you could get them to 'lock', and hence keep the water out, at least to splash proof levels?
I spec'ed a removable sterring wheel last time, so I thought I'd try it again. The only problem I have with that is carrying it to and from work on the train and tube
And I don't know if I'd try and put the indicators on there - is there really any point? Couldn't it be done with a normal wheel? I was also thinking of the locking valves - that deflate if you drive off with them activated, but they cause issues with wheel balancing and being fiddly to deactivate in the rain/driving hail/snow/ etc
NOI, but I prefer the G4 - I have no idea why, I just do. Don't get me wrong, I do like the 20, 27 (and the 33
), but there's just that little something about the 4 - I think it's becuase it was the first I saw of the series, so it holds a little bigger place in my heart. I was told of a 27 on eBay lsat night - but it had finished by then - that I would have bought given the chance, as it was going cheap for what it had.
-> I heard that Dare was going to make a 'roadster' version, with a removable hardtop. Did anything come of this?
I'll start asking Dare about these production issues instead.
I don't mind getting the G4 as turnkey (this was what I was doing originally anyhow) - I just thought it'd be nice to build it too.
Looks like I'll need to build the garage first - I'd better start pleading with the council to allow me planning permission for it... or with the misses to move (again...)
minimax said:More the other way around. The G4 is the first of the 'Ginetta Style' cars, with bodywork and chassis features being carried forward to the cars of today.
and I understand the G4 is an evolution of the G33......
However, since re-aquiring the rights, I'm sure that Dare have done one or two things to bring the G4 up to date.
Ninjadave, good to hear you are sticking with the G4. Do you know what color you are going to try to get? Black would look really nice. Electric blue looks good too. Some people have a big white round cirlce put on too on a door or something for a number.
<img src="<a href="http://www.nagor.org/images/rforb1.jpg">www.nagor.org/images/rforb1.jpg</a>">
You are thinking about a convertable rather than a hard top?
I think most of the steering wheels are 300mm, sometimes less. Depending on how many years young you are, carrying it to work could be tres chic. I could be wrong but indicator buttons on the steering wheel are handy because otherwise you have to use a switch on the dash. I didn't think there was a lever on the steering colomn like most cars. Stigs site does have some good info and photos. Buttons on the wheel could be good for a focused driving style.
>> Edited by PiB on Wednesday 21st July 23:30
<img src="<a href="http://www.nagor.org/images/rforb1.jpg">www.nagor.org/images/rforb1.jpg</a>">
You are thinking about a convertable rather than a hard top?
I think most of the steering wheels are 300mm, sometimes less. Depending on how many years young you are, carrying it to work could be tres chic. I could be wrong but indicator buttons on the steering wheel are handy because otherwise you have to use a switch on the dash. I didn't think there was a lever on the steering colomn like most cars. Stigs site does have some good info and photos. Buttons on the wheel could be good for a focused driving style.
>> Edited by PiB on Wednesday 21st July 23:30
I want the convertable, yes. But I heard rumours a while back - and it was an option on the price list I found last night, for a removable hard top to go with it - that you could buy a G4 as a 'roadster' (basically a convertable, but with a removable hardtop). This is what I was thinking of.
I was thinking of the wedgewood blue with creame interior, as this was the one I saw, and the one I test drove. However, Paul has a nice looking bronze one at the mo:
Not really my cup'o'char, but it's spec'ed out well, and I may be persuaded - if the windows and windscreen frame were fully there.
I think my biggest hurdle now is keeping it under cover... I have lost my beloved garage since moving down to Wiltshire, and even if I built a garage or a carport, I'd still need to put it under a cover at the train station
Maybe the guys there will love the car so much I could park it on the spare platform
RE the button indicators - I'm pretty sure the one I tested had indicators on the stalks, but I could easily be mistaken...?
>> Edited by ninjadave on Thursday 22 July 15:17
I was thinking of the wedgewood blue with creame interior, as this was the one I saw, and the one I test drove. However, Paul has a nice looking bronze one at the mo:
Not really my cup'o'char, but it's spec'ed out well, and I may be persuaded - if the windows and windscreen frame were fully there.
I think my biggest hurdle now is keeping it under cover... I have lost my beloved garage since moving down to Wiltshire, and even if I built a garage or a carport, I'd still need to put it under a cover at the train station
Maybe the guys there will love the car so much I could park it on the spare platform RE the button indicators - I'm pretty sure the one I tested had indicators on the stalks, but I could easily be mistaken...?
>> Edited by ninjadave on Thursday 22 July 15:17
ninjadave said:
I want the convertable, yes. But I heard rumours a while back - and it was an option on the price list I found last night, for a removable hard top to go with it - that you could buy a G4 as a 'roadster' (basically a convertable, but with a removable hardtop).
Hi Dave,
Dare have indeed introduced a removable hardtop for the G4, which when fitted makes it look like the coupe (see www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=112&i=3501).
From memory it uses the same screen as the coupe in a GRP frame, which is not interchangeable with the old style chrome frame used with the soft top.
Regarding indicators, while the car I tested for PH a few years back used a rocker switch, I seem to remember reading that this had been changed to a stalk on later cars.
Ah, right!
I would have only wanted a hard top on or nothing anyhow. I would have stick the soft top in the boot when the roof was off JIC. However, the soft-top frame didn't quite fit into the boot (on the one at the show, the others may do?) it wouldn't be that helpful if I got caught short anywhere.
I know the bodies of G4s don't really add anything extra to the cassis, but I expect the body would be able to resist cornering torque a bit more with the windscreen incased in GRP? Or be untoicable
Reading your review has increased my need for this car... although I'm still stuck with the issue of storage and parking in bad weather
At least this is just a finer deatil
>> Edited by ninjadave on Monday 14th March 12:49
I would have only wanted a hard top on or nothing anyhow. I would have stick the soft top in the boot when the roof was off JIC. However, the soft-top frame didn't quite fit into the boot (on the one at the show, the others may do?) it wouldn't be that helpful if I got caught short anywhere.
I know the bodies of G4s don't really add anything extra to the cassis, but I expect the body would be able to resist cornering torque a bit more with the windscreen incased in GRP? Or be untoicable
Reading your review has increased my need for this car... although I'm still stuck with the issue of storage and parking in bad weather
At least this is just a finer deatil
>> Edited by ninjadave on Monday 14th March 12:49
Hello again!
I'm looking into ways of making the G4 more weather proof, with the removalbe hard top.
The main issue seems to be the holes in the perspex windows not keeping modest rain out. The rest of it seems ok (from what I've heard, and seen).
To this end, I want a solid perspex side window.
This obviously leads to issues getting into the car.
SVA means it'll have to have the immobiliser fitted; I'll make sure it is a remote operated one, with extra trigger lines (usually used for central locking). The trigger will activate a modified central locking unit on the driver's side door, which will raise the latch, and effectivly open the door. As a manual override, I'd use a bonnet realise mechinism on the passenger door, hooked up inside the boot (meaning only one mechinism per door unit).
Three issues with this that I can see are:
1 - will the lack of the hole mean the pressure difference at high speed pull the window off the car
2 - The driver's door will open when I have to re-deactivate the immobiliser as I've taken too long starting her up.
3 - The doors take more than just an open latch to open, and will stay closed, unless something forces them out slightly too.
I'm waiting on a reply from Dare as to the first issue, but I expect they're pretty busy with the new car, so I'm not holding my breath fo an answer soon.
Could anybody here offer any advise, especially if it's along the lines of: "Are you a damn fool, boy?"
Cheers,
Dave
>> Edited by ninjadave on Thursday 12th August 12:51
I'm looking into ways of making the G4 more weather proof, with the removalbe hard top.
The main issue seems to be the holes in the perspex windows not keeping modest rain out. The rest of it seems ok (from what I've heard, and seen).
To this end, I want a solid perspex side window.
This obviously leads to issues getting into the car.
SVA means it'll have to have the immobiliser fitted; I'll make sure it is a remote operated one, with extra trigger lines (usually used for central locking). The trigger will activate a modified central locking unit on the driver's side door, which will raise the latch, and effectivly open the door. As a manual override, I'd use a bonnet realise mechinism on the passenger door, hooked up inside the boot (meaning only one mechinism per door unit).
Three issues with this that I can see are:
1 - will the lack of the hole mean the pressure difference at high speed pull the window off the car
2 - The driver's door will open when I have to re-deactivate the immobiliser as I've taken too long starting her up.
3 - The doors take more than just an open latch to open, and will stay closed, unless something forces them out slightly too.
I'm waiting on a reply from Dare as to the first issue, but I expect they're pretty busy with the new car, so I'm not holding my breath fo an answer soon.
Could anybody here offer any advise, especially if it's along the lines of: "Are you a damn fool, boy?"
Cheers,
Dave
>> Edited by ninjadave on Thursday 12th August 12:51
Rackon the side window question depends on how well they're attached and how fast you're going. Not very helpful I know...
Regarding the door locks, it might be possible to use the remote boot opening facility some systems offer rather than the central door locking one as these seem to be more 'independent'.
You'll also find that electric locks have been used on custom cars for years and you used to find kits advertised in Street Rodder magazine, which from memory included a spring mechanism to pop the door open. Might also be worth checking Custom Car and Street Machine.
Regarding the door locks, it might be possible to use the remote boot opening facility some systems offer rather than the central door locking one as these seem to be more 'independent'.
You'll also find that electric locks have been used on custom cars for years and you used to find kits advertised in Street Rodder magazine, which from memory included a spring mechanism to pop the door open. Might also be worth checking Custom Car and Street Machine.
Thanks Graham 
I'll have a look into it. I never thought of the remote boot option (mainly I think as I've never had a car with it on).
I'll research this a bit more now I have somewhere to look, and at least the slight feeling of sanity about it all 
>> Edited by ninjadave on Friday 13th August 09:44
I'll have a look into it. I never thought of the remote boot option (mainly I think as I've never had a car with it on).
I'll research this a bit more now I have somewhere to look, and at least the slight feeling of sanity about it all
>> Edited by ninjadave on Friday 13th August 09:44
Dave
A few thoughts, after some 15,000 miles in my Dare G4.
Whatever you do, don't specify solid side windows - you'll pass out in the summer and won't be able to see where you're going in winter. The perspex holes actually seal quite well if closed carefully, and they don't leak. Driving in the wet though they need to be open or you'll mist up. Still don't let much water in.
Security: I have a Thatcham Cat 1 immobiliser and alarm (required by the insurance company), together with a removable steering wheel and a competition removable master switch. It ain't going anywhere! There are no doorlocks, true, but there's nothing to nick as I don't have a radio. The risk is probably vandalism more than theft.
I would forget central locking, remote boot lock (why?) - they don't suit the character of the G4 and are just more to go wrong. In standard road guise, the G4 is perfectly usable as long as you accept it for what it is.
Recent cars do have indicator stalks (rather nice custom ally). Mine has the switch on the dash and it's fine - you soon get used to it.
Hope this helps - shout if you have more questions
A few thoughts, after some 15,000 miles in my Dare G4.
Whatever you do, don't specify solid side windows - you'll pass out in the summer and won't be able to see where you're going in winter. The perspex holes actually seal quite well if closed carefully, and they don't leak. Driving in the wet though they need to be open or you'll mist up. Still don't let much water in.
Security: I have a Thatcham Cat 1 immobiliser and alarm (required by the insurance company), together with a removable steering wheel and a competition removable master switch. It ain't going anywhere! There are no doorlocks, true, but there's nothing to nick as I don't have a radio. The risk is probably vandalism more than theft.
I would forget central locking, remote boot lock (why?) - they don't suit the character of the G4 and are just more to go wrong. In standard road guise, the G4 is perfectly usable as long as you accept it for what it is.
Recent cars do have indicator stalks (rather nice custom ally). Mine has the switch on the dash and it's fine - you soon get used to it.
Hope this helps - shout if you have more questions
Tim,
Thanks for the info.
I'm quite happy to take the car for what it is - that's pretty much the main reason I want to buy it! IT's rare, beautiful, and has the best feedback of anything I've driven, including the Noble M12 (sorry, had to squeeze that in somewhere).
When you say don't let much water in - how much is that? Really? I'm not going to not buy one if it's just a small amount of fine mist, but if it's almost like raining outside, inside, then I'll have to carry on thinking of a way to make it more water tight. Though, as you say, the cockpit needs ventalation.
Another big issue I have with having to reach in to open the door is in that hard, driving, wet to the bone type rain. When I'm reaching in, getting angery with myself for not being able top open the damn door faster, water will be pouring in off my arm. And in my frustration, I may just catch the window a little too hard, and make it pop off the door
This may just be in my head, but it's there, it's making me worry
The remote boot unlocker would have been used on the drivers door, as the solid windows wouldn't have let me open the door. A manual override would be to open the boot and pull a latch to open the passenger door. So it would have acted as central locking. I know it doesn't really go with the concept of the G4, but if I had solid windows, I'd need to get in somehow.
Whilst these are just minor irritations with the car, and aren't putting me off, I can see I'd get a little annoyed in the winter months.
Also, as a Dare G4 owner, have you ever driven it in the snow? I expect it'd be capable in the wet, but I'm wondering about the light weight-high power combo in slippy snow? I won't have the luxury of not going to work if the weather's bad (unless it's the wrong type of snow for the trains)
Thanks again!
Dave
Thanks for the info.
I'm quite happy to take the car for what it is - that's pretty much the main reason I want to buy it! IT's rare, beautiful, and has the best feedback of anything I've driven, including the Noble M12 (sorry, had to squeeze that in somewhere
). When you say don't let much water in - how much is that? Really? I'm not going to not buy one if it's just a small amount of fine mist, but if it's almost like raining outside, inside, then I'll have to carry on thinking of a way to make it more water tight. Though, as you say, the cockpit needs ventalation.
Another big issue I have with having to reach in to open the door is in that hard, driving, wet to the bone type rain. When I'm reaching in, getting angery with myself for not being able top open the damn door faster, water will be pouring in off my arm. And in my frustration, I may just catch the window a little too hard, and make it pop off the door
This may just be in my head, but it's there, it's making me worry The remote boot unlocker would have been used on the drivers door, as the solid windows wouldn't have let me open the door. A manual override would be to open the boot and pull a latch to open the passenger door. So it would have acted as central locking. I know it doesn't really go with the concept of the G4, but if I had solid windows, I'd need to get in somehow.
Whilst these are just minor irritations with the car, and aren't putting me off, I can see I'd get a little annoyed in the winter months.
Also, as a Dare G4 owner, have you ever driven it in the snow? I expect it'd be capable in the wet, but I'm wondering about the light weight-high power combo in slippy snow? I won't have the luxury of not going to work if the weather's bad (unless it's the wrong type of snow for the trains
) Thanks again!
Dave
Snapper7 said:
Driving a G4 in the Snow???????
I wouldn't, its to light...
You also have to remember the car has a powdercoated space frame, like a Caterham.
This will not fair to well with the salt on the roads at that time of the year....
My 20 year old 350i has a powder coated space frame and has covered 75k miles with out any severe degradation of the finish. Used in all weathers too.
Powder coating is very sterdy stuff. We hadn't properly tightened a brake union when rebuilding the G20 and the subsequent single drop of brake fluid wiped all of the paint of the prop shaft 
, but the chassis was unaffected.
Also, the effort required with a stanley knife to get the coat off at earthing points pretty much says that you have a pretty damn good protection system there.
Rich
, but the chassis was unaffected. Also, the effort required with a stanley knife to get the coat off at earthing points pretty much says that you have a pretty damn good protection system there.
Rich
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