Ford and swelling wheel nuts
Discussion
longshot said:
Is it the aesthetics of the nuts or their effectiveness in doing the their job properly that is bothering you?
I have a small degree of experience in the things you speak of and considering that wheel nuts live a relatively stress and heat free existence, I think you would be extremely unlucky for one of them to fatigue to the point of failure.
A good dose of coalesced corrosion pitting could lead to cracking but I would highly doubt it.
I'm not trying to tell you how you should proceed, but talking about rusty nuts may just serve to trivialize the far more serious problem you want addressing.
I'd be interesting in knowing what it is.
Anyway, any chance of a photo of your nuts?
It's their effectiveness, I don't fancy finding out that if I need to change a tyre due to a puncture that I can't get them off and would need to contact Ford for recovery, to then be told I'd need to pay for replacements and the removal of damaged nut(s). It seems more complaints on the same type of nut can be found in the USA than in the UK, probably because many of us don't like the hassle of complaining, hence why I asked on here. I have a small degree of experience in the things you speak of and considering that wheel nuts live a relatively stress and heat free existence, I think you would be extremely unlucky for one of them to fatigue to the point of failure.
A good dose of coalesced corrosion pitting could lead to cracking but I would highly doubt it.
I'm not trying to tell you how you should proceed, but talking about rusty nuts may just serve to trivialize the far more serious problem you want addressing.
I'd be interesting in knowing what it is.
Anyway, any chance of a photo of your nuts?
This type of problem also happens with those on Toyota's apparently too.
The car was meant to have been fully refurbished, so they've either been missed or damaged by Ford, If not them then possibly the RAC, yet it was made out me or a 3rd party damaged them despite me being able to prove otherwise. Ford have admitted they are damaged, well the worst ones anyway, but wont accept any responsibility despite them knowing it's been refurbished by them. The big hologram sticker in the windscreen is a pretty big clue too.
I don't have any taken, but can happily take some tomorrow.
I'd like them sorted before they get to the stage where I won't be able to get them off. The hole experience with Ford Direct hasn't been great so far, so to those of who own a car that's gone through the scheme, here's a couple more things to check, the cap on the header tank, mine was screwed in too tight and had split but was changed with no quibble, a common problem from looking online, I also found that the spare wheel wasn't secured properly, the threaded brace to keep it in place hadn't been screwed in all the way only a few turns at most.
Greendubber said:
If you got a set of OE wheel nuts from Ford surely that wont cause any warranty issues would it?
Having a new Focus ST I'll be sure to keep any eye out for my nuts swelling up.
That's true, however they'll cost £5 each, so that's £60 for something that should be right from the start.Having a new Focus ST I'll be sure to keep any eye out for my nuts swelling up.
Make sure anybody who touches it doesn't use a windy gun to slacken or tighten them up, after a service check them over before driving away and I'd go as far as saying take a picture's before taking it in. Ford drag there heels over this even if they've damaged them and lay the blame on you.
RacerMike said:
I think perhaps the advice you should take from this thread is that there's a time and a place to pick your fights. Both on the internet, and on a car dealership.
Regarding the nuts, I get where you're coming from. Wheel nuts are obvious and safety critical. I'll not question your claim of being an Automotive Engineer, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you may well work in an area that doesn't work with physical cars or parts. The majority of Automotive Engineers where I work rarely get to see a car let along drive, or develop it, so knowing that wheel bolts/nuts are generally considered to be a partially consumable component isn't something you'd necessarily know about. Anything that is removed during service is generally considered to be something that may need replacing in it's lifecycle. Admittedly many dealers wouldn't be attentive enough to suggest replacing bolts (the only dealer who has actually ever mentioned it was Porsche...), but in the same way that the oil filter is replaced during service, it's something I'd expect to pay for if it wears out. As for over torquing, you'll be aware of factors of safety, and any OEM worth their salt tests for abuse cases. I'm almost certain that the bolts won't fail on your car, put it that way.
Now back to my first point. Picking fights. Yes, technically speaking, if you bought the car used approved and it's got damaged wheel nuts on it, a good dealership would probably replace it. But this is Ford, and they're not generally very good when it comes to their service department. However, if I were you, I'd have sucked this one up, paid the £15 and saved the fight for something else (and held this as evidence that something else they slipped up on). If they give you wheel nuts, it'll be the last thing you ever get from them, and it'll have already soured the relationship. As an example of genuinely bad service or 'f' ups.......during the PDI the dealership drove my new RS into their ramp completely writing the front bumper off before I took delivery. As a 'good will' I got £200 labour FOC on the Mountune kit I was having fitted......which they then managed to 'fit' leaving the entire air box in the boot and the new air filter dangling in mid air in the engine bay. After teaching their 'master tech' how to do it properly over the phone, I re-fitted the kit properly myself and took it up with their service principal. I'm still chasing that one up with Ford UK....
Basically....get a sense of perspective on an issue and ask yourself whether it's worth the trouble. Take peoples reaction on here as a lesson, and think twice next time about threatening legal action over the cosmetics of some wheel nuts.....
No legal action has been threatened over the wheel nuts, thats regarding something more serious, unfortunately I can't name and shame. Which is daft and allows others to be fleeced in the same way, I'd go as far as saying the dealership did what they've done on purpose to avoid most warranty work. They have an appalling reputation online, which I fought was because they're a massive nationwide chain. Regarding the nuts, I get where you're coming from. Wheel nuts are obvious and safety critical. I'll not question your claim of being an Automotive Engineer, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you may well work in an area that doesn't work with physical cars or parts. The majority of Automotive Engineers where I work rarely get to see a car let along drive, or develop it, so knowing that wheel bolts/nuts are generally considered to be a partially consumable component isn't something you'd necessarily know about. Anything that is removed during service is generally considered to be something that may need replacing in it's lifecycle. Admittedly many dealers wouldn't be attentive enough to suggest replacing bolts (the only dealer who has actually ever mentioned it was Porsche...), but in the same way that the oil filter is replaced during service, it's something I'd expect to pay for if it wears out. As for over torquing, you'll be aware of factors of safety, and any OEM worth their salt tests for abuse cases. I'm almost certain that the bolts won't fail on your car, put it that way.
Now back to my first point. Picking fights. Yes, technically speaking, if you bought the car used approved and it's got damaged wheel nuts on it, a good dealership would probably replace it. But this is Ford, and they're not generally very good when it comes to their service department. However, if I were you, I'd have sucked this one up, paid the £15 and saved the fight for something else (and held this as evidence that something else they slipped up on). If they give you wheel nuts, it'll be the last thing you ever get from them, and it'll have already soured the relationship. As an example of genuinely bad service or 'f' ups.......during the PDI the dealership drove my new RS into their ramp completely writing the front bumper off before I took delivery. As a 'good will' I got £200 labour FOC on the Mountune kit I was having fitted......which they then managed to 'fit' leaving the entire air box in the boot and the new air filter dangling in mid air in the engine bay. After teaching their 'master tech' how to do it properly over the phone, I re-fitted the kit properly myself and took it up with their service principal. I'm still chasing that one up with Ford UK....
Basically....get a sense of perspective on an issue and ask yourself whether it's worth the trouble. Take peoples reaction on here as a lesson, and think twice next time about threatening legal action over the cosmetics of some wheel nuts.....
If I'd have know what they'd do I'd never have purchased the car, I nearly walked after they tried pressure selling - after getting my deposit - the salesman and sales manager trying to sell me extras, then the famous £100 admin fee.
I'm aware of everything you say about being consumables, factor of safety etc, but to have them damaged and swollen after only two years? I also wouldn't want to take the risk how little small.
As another poster says, if more kick up a fuss something would be done, I could argue VAG group car owners were going over the top with compensation claims too regarding emissions.
As for your monutune kit, were they certified by mountune to fit their kits. It doesn't sound like it and could cause a lot more bother down the line.
RacerMike said:
sohco said:
No legal action has been threatened over the wheel nuts, thats regarding something more serious, unfortunately I can't name and shame. Which is daft and allows others to be fleeced in the same way, I'd go as far as saying the dealership did what they've done on purpose to avoid most warranty work. They have an appalling reputation online, which I fought was because they're a massive nationwide chain.
If I'd have know what they'd do I'd never have purchased the car, I nearly walked after they tried pressure selling - after getting my deposit - the salesman and sales manager trying to sell me extras, then the famous £100 admin fee.
I'm aware of everything you say about being consumables, factor of safety etc, but to have them damaged and swollen after only two years? I also wouldn't want to take the risk how little small.
As another poster says, if more kick up a fuss something would be done, I could argue VAG group car owners were going over the top with compensation claims too regarding emissions.
As for your monutune kit, were they certified by mountune to fit their kits. It doesn't sound like it and could cause a lot more bother down the line.
Two years? Try 2 months ?? Honestly, the serviceable life of a wheel nut or bolt is probably only about 5-10 removal and retorques max. During testing we get through them almost as quickly as tyres.If I'd have know what they'd do I'd never have purchased the car, I nearly walked after they tried pressure selling - after getting my deposit - the salesman and sales manager trying to sell me extras, then the famous £100 admin fee.
I'm aware of everything you say about being consumables, factor of safety etc, but to have them damaged and swollen after only two years? I also wouldn't want to take the risk how little small.
As another poster says, if more kick up a fuss something would be done, I could argue VAG group car owners were going over the top with compensation claims too regarding emissions.
As for your monutune kit, were they certified by mountune to fit their kits. It doesn't sound like it and could cause a lot more bother down the line.
If you reassembled your engine, having taken it apart, would you really be that agreived that you had to replace all the main assembly bolts? Bolting is a semi permanent fixing method, and it's not intended to be a reliable way of regularly fixing and unfixing something.
And yes. It's a Mountune licenced, Ford Performance dealership who allegedly knew what they were doing...
I noticed the swelling and damage when the car was around 18 months, left it until the service to mention it. I didn't realise it would be so damn difficult in getting them changed.
Edited by sohco on Friday 2nd June 17:32
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