RE: Ford revives sporty Focus RS
Discussion
k me, where do they go to make up this stuff...?Timberwolf said:
Autocar have been regularly predicting a new Focus RS ever since they stopped making the old one, though. I'd love to see one built, but I've got to the point where I mentally file the scoops on the Focus RS alongside all the old "Exciting new mid-size Rover you'll be driving in 2006!" stories.
actually some of the time when they were pushing RS stories, Ford was actually discussing the business case with suppliers...
havoc said:
german tony said:
Which leaves us with the "they fitted 4wd to the rally cars" angle. Yes, they did. In custom built/modified shells. At huge expense. Using complex engineering that has little or no relevence in road cars ...
You reckon? I don't.
If the shell was designed for 4wd from the start, then there's no reason the rally-spec stuff would require any significant changes. And secondly, the rally-spec stuff will all fit in EXACTLY the same places as the road-spec stuff.
Finally, IF the rally shells were modified 'at huge expense', the cost will be because they were bespoke, not for any intrinsic problems with the design. Mass-production will shrink the cost exponentially.
C307 (i.e. current Focus) is package-protected for AWD, iirc.
i.e. the stuff would fit.
havoc said:
german tony said:
Which leaves us with the "they fitted 4wd to the rally cars" angle. Yes, they did. In custom built/modified shells. At huge expense. Using complex engineering that has little or no relevence in road cars ...
You reckon? I don't.
If the shell was designed for 4wd from the start, then there's no reason the rally-spec stuff would require any significant changes. And secondly, the rally-spec stuff will all fit in EXACTLY the same places as the road-spec stuff.
Finally, IF the rally shells were modified 'at huge expense', the cost will be because they were bespoke, not for any intrinsic problems with the design. Mass-production will shrink the cost exponentially.
Have you seen the inside of an Focus RS WRC?
Bespoke is the word. There's bugger all in comman with a road Focus. That's down the rules being substantially differnt now to the way they were when you needed to produce a road-going version before you could go rallying. 's called a kit-car basically & means the rollcage is the chassis & the steel panels are there to make it look a bit like a road car.
Therefore the concept of just taking the rally car & adapting it for the road is a non-starter, sorry.
Haven't had a look at the new Freelander yet to see where all the 4wd bits are but I'll bet good cash money they aren't stuck up inside the shell 'cos that would take far too much interior space away.
Why oh why oh why can't Ford get it right? 4WD is the answer here full stop. The idea is ludricrous, 280 through the front is just crap, regardless of the 'new diff technology' Oooooooo wow! They're just too commercial and fleet car minded to dedicate their time to doing these things properly. Also, if it does get built, I'd bet a ton that it's not 280BHP either, because they'll be looking to dumb it down for the masses too. As usual, all hype and no substance. Well done Ford. That's why I'll never own one. The ST has something like 225 brake? from a 2.5 forced induction five pot? ridiculous. If they had the balls it could easily be 280 but again they wilfed out. the last word said:
Nano2nd said:
stop with this front wheel drive drivel Ford 
Yeah, 'cos the Focus ST, Puma, ST220 are all really poor, aren't they?
Ford managed 4wd or rwd with older 200bhp models, so why now with the most powerful stock Ford RS ever are they going for THE worst setup for that much power?
I read the Autocar article, Ford are doing this that and the other instead of performance orientated x,y or z because it's CHEAPER to do it this way...
Words along the lines of... to define this model it has unique interior trims, big alloy wheels and front and rear bumpers, and all for only £2500 more than the stock ST.
Well really? The Volvo engine in a higher state of tune (straight from Volvo with a remap no doubt), and new bodykit/interior bits. Well whoopie doo!
Ford, stop being idiots. The new Focus platform was hyped because it was so modular and 4wd was so easy to implement, but here you are basically doing a Honda and selling out the RS badge by essentially remapping an ST...!
Crap... it's like BMW making the new M3 a remapped bodykitted 335i!
Dave
NDT said:
havoc said:
german tony said:
Which leaves us with the "they fitted 4wd to the rally cars" angle. Yes, they did. In custom built/modified shells. At huge expense. Using complex engineering that has little or no relevence in road cars ...
You reckon? I don't.
If the shell was designed for 4wd from the start, then there's no reason the rally-spec stuff would require any significant changes. And secondly, the rally-spec stuff will all fit in EXACTLY the same places as the road-spec stuff.
Finally, IF the rally shells were modified 'at huge expense', the cost will be because they were bespoke, not for any intrinsic problems with the design. Mass-production will shrink the cost exponentially.
C307 (i.e. current Focus) is package-protected for AWD, iirc.
i.e. the stuff would fit.
Yeah, on a Freelander. Which uses it's extra ride height to put the transmission under the shell or I'm a Chinaman.
Christ almighty will they ever just release a f**king 4WD one. 280bhp and FWD what planet are they on? There's a massive market for 4WD performance cars out there which the Evo and Impreza have to themselves.
The market for overpowered FWD chavmobiles is flooded already.
The market for overpowered FWD chavmobiles is flooded already.
Edited by Bada Bing! on Thursday 8th February 14:09
My Alfa has 250bhp through the front wheels and that's already beyond the limit of FWD. They're wasting their time with that, even with a trick diff it'll still be rubbish. As you can already remap an ST to 300bhp what's the point of this RS. It's about time they came up with a descent RWD platform IMO.
UNPC said:
It's about time they came up with a descent RWD platform IMO.
(Keep using that smiley today). Last decent one was the Sierra Cossie platform (as used on the Escort Cossie also). Even including the :cough: :spit: Mustang, the last one was the Sierra (OK, the GT doesn't count, right!
).havoc said:
UNPC said:
It's about time they came up with a descent RWD platform IMO.
(Keep using that smiley today). Last decent one was the Sierra Cossie platform (as used on the Escort Cossie also). Even including the :cough: :spit: Mustang, the last one was the Sierra (OK, the GT doesn't count, right!
).Anyone with any sense who wanted a proper RS Ford would go looking for a decent Cosseh still.
This RS if it ends up being as Autocar say, is just like the new Honda Civic Type R... a sell out on the name to land a few short-term sales to people who know no better, while putting off long-term buyers of the marque.
WHO is running the performance departments of these companies? Why not stop wasting money on new wheels/bodykit, and put ALL the budget they do have into something worthwhile for the damn car! Even a bare stock ST3 with 4wd and revised suspension would warrant RS badges... a remap and bodykit does not
Dave
german tony said:
havoc said:
german tony said:
Which leaves us with the "they fitted 4wd to the rally cars" angle. Yes, they did. In custom built/modified shells. At huge expense. Using complex engineering that has little or no relevence in road cars ...
You reckon? I don't.
If the shell was designed for 4wd from the start, then there's no reason the rally-spec stuff would require any significant changes. And secondly, the rally-spec stuff will all fit in EXACTLY the same places as the road-spec stuff.
Finally, IF the rally shells were modified 'at huge expense', the cost will be because they were bespoke, not for any intrinsic problems with the design. Mass-production will shrink the cost exponentially.
Have you seen the inside of an Focus RS WRC?
Bespoke is the word. There's bugger all in comman with a road Focus. That's down the rules being substantially differnt now to the way they were when you needed to produce a road-going version before you could go rallying. 's called a kit-car basically & means the rollcage is the chassis & the steel panels are there to make it look a bit like a road car.
The rally cars use proper competition stuff though, xtrac sequential gearboxes and so on, not even remotely similar to road car, but I don't think anyone is really suggesting that, more that there is space to fit it in rather than using the system itself.
You must realise Ford's group has many cars with the Haldex system already fitted with similar engines/bodyshells, it's not just the freelander, it's already in the Ford Five Hundren sedan in the US not to mention plenty of performance Volvo sedans using the same engine (Volvo has already learned the hard way about big powerful FWD cars). Most VWs use Haldex AWD as well, even the Veyron uses it, so it's not like it can't handle the power.
There must be some weirdness in the Focus platform that means the haldex AWD system is unviable, because the Focus based Mazda MPS3 also is FWD only when the MPS6 is Haldex AWD. It's not like Ford couldn't spread development costs across the board with variants worldwide that would greatly benefit from the system.
There's a tuner here in Adelaide Australia that sells 400hp turbo kits for the old 2.0L Zetec motor. This was before they announced the ST. The ST is called the XR5 in Australia I shit you not
www.fordxr5turbo.com/
www.fordxr5turbo.com/
Edited by robinoz on Thursday 8th February 15:21
Mr Whippy said:
WHO is running the performance departments of these companies? Why not stop wasting money on new wheels/bodykit...
THAT is what Marketing have convinced the directors that the market wants (nothing to do with the fact that people who work in marketing are shallow, vein, image-focused tw@ts themselves at all!
). Unfortunately (whether it's tail wagging the dog or genuine market forces) they seem to be right...hot hatches seem to sell as much/more on image/price than on actual handling ability/performance.* So, as a manufacturer, why waste all that engineering money when you CAN polish a turd!
Gentlemen, we ARE an endangered species. The era of 'drivers' who care about steering feel, throttle-steerability, and lithe balance in a car is waning. Enjoy it while you can...
* That the MkIV Golf GTi was the best selling of all the GTi's is telling. That very few 182's had the recaros, and less than half had Cup suspension is also noteworthy. The CTR outselling the ITR 4 or 5 to 1 I think is more down to market knowledge of the brand, and also pricing. And WHO actually bought all those 206GTi's?!? :shakesheadindespair:
road_terrorist said:
It's not like Ford couldn't spread development costs across the board with variants worldwide that would greatly benefit from the system.
But it's only really needed for 250bhp+ these days, with fwd, and only one or two of their cars on this platform come near that.
What gets me is that the Escort Cosworth used a shortened Sierra chassis, so was quite unique, certainly not a cheap process. But it was needed for the homogolation for Fords exploits in motorsport.
I genuinely don't think we'll see great road cars from everyday manufacturers again until the motorsport regs require them to make them for their WRC/Touring car etc purposes...
Ie, RS500 of the original RS Cosworth Sierra! How mad was that car... HUGE intercooler, two injectors per cylinder etc
Dave
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