Original Speed 12 at TrackvRoad
Discussion
Graham said:
I dont necessarily see racing as wreaking it, and there a are lots of historic racers ( especially griffs and granturas) that only exist in there restored state due to classic racing. same for a lot of group C and old F1 stuff.
The trouble with the s12 is that it was a GT1 racer, and there is no where currently for those to run and they were also very expensive to run at the time. They did try with the GT90's series but even that was expensive.
Your probably looking at Group C / formula Boss budgets to race the s12, and thats after you have somehow rebuilt it to original spec...
It would be fantastic to see it doing demo laps though... But I cant see one being raced. I did hear someone suggesting putting an ls in there and they should be shot !!!
Who every does end up with it though, I do hope they'll consider letting us take some body moulds to build a replica,It would be a much milder TVR spec but it would be racing
+1 Agree with Graham on this, and as much as i like cars in a museum there is no substitute for seeing, hearing and experiencing them doing what they where designed to do and thats turn a wheel!The trouble with the s12 is that it was a GT1 racer, and there is no where currently for those to run and they were also very expensive to run at the time. They did try with the GT90's series but even that was expensive.
Your probably looking at Group C / formula Boss budgets to race the s12, and thats after you have somehow rebuilt it to original spec...
It would be fantastic to see it doing demo laps though... But I cant see one being raced. I did hear someone suggesting putting an ls in there and they should be shot !!!
Who every does end up with it though, I do hope they'll consider letting us take some body moulds to build a replica,It would be a much milder TVR spec but it would be racing
I have been following this with great interest and will also be going to see the car in the flesh for myself!
Don't worry Dave i don't want to put an LS in it
Wow, the pics from Oulton Park are a blast from the past. I was there and watched it go round, it didn't do so bad for it's first outing mid pack maybe in the first race? When was it 94/95? It was 'swinny' who was running the team, sorry swinny's dog who was running the team with Colin and young Gav the apprentice and Mick (I think) the awesome mig/tig welder who hand fabricated the engine but impressed more by his wheelying skills on his Suzuki Bandit. They are in some of the images, I bet they don't look like that anymore - they will be wee smelling old farts - I hope your reading this XXX Nice door mirrors though.....
I really don't think you could do this thing justice without a working Speed 12, that has to be the driver of the project. If it costs too much then you just stretch out the build until it can be achieved. The fact is that much is now known about the speed 6 which can be applied to the 12. The drawings must exist, and a a full engine (albeit knackered) exists for visual reference. As Dave says, A block could be CNC machined, and I'm sure many existing speed 6 parts can be used to complete the engine. If a method to build Speed 12s was realised, I am very sure that someone like TVR Power could be brought on board to help sell components or even build up full engines to sell to offset the cost of engineering. This would be the biggest outlay on the project but would certainly be the most important.
If I were doing it, I would have an engine produced, and take moulds of the car to sell first. These two parts can be used to generate income to assist in paying for the chassis restoration, and then you're down to a reasonably standard vehicle restoration - I'm sure Graham Abbott could assist with parts to be copied for the suspension and drive train so you're just into engineering and fabrication - and lots of time!
As Graham says, there aren't really any places where you could race this without joining the big boys, and if this happened then frankly the cost of restoration becomes insignificant next to the running costs. Whilst it probably won't race again, I don't see the problem in doing so; what's important is the shape, and the design of the car - this is held in the moulds and the drawings. The fibreglass and steel which this thing is made of aren't special, and like all cars, you break one and another can be made, if built to plan then its still a Speed 12 (ok I know some old car geeks won't agree). The parts that need to be saved are the engine and the body moulds/chassis design. If the warehouse catches fire tomorrow, then you lose the existing car forever.
If I were doing it, I would have an engine produced, and take moulds of the car to sell first. These two parts can be used to generate income to assist in paying for the chassis restoration, and then you're down to a reasonably standard vehicle restoration - I'm sure Graham Abbott could assist with parts to be copied for the suspension and drive train so you're just into engineering and fabrication - and lots of time!
As Graham says, there aren't really any places where you could race this without joining the big boys, and if this happened then frankly the cost of restoration becomes insignificant next to the running costs. Whilst it probably won't race again, I don't see the problem in doing so; what's important is the shape, and the design of the car - this is held in the moulds and the drawings. The fibreglass and steel which this thing is made of aren't special, and like all cars, you break one and another can be made, if built to plan then its still a Speed 12 (ok I know some old car geeks won't agree). The parts that need to be saved are the engine and the body moulds/chassis design. If the warehouse catches fire tomorrow, then you lose the existing car forever.
Hi
Well just got home from looking at the Speed 12.
A very interesting project to do if I am luck to get the car!
But I fear the big money is on it going to Germany, were it will join a private collection of cars, I am not certain if that collection is avaliable to view or not!
I will post up a few detailed pics when Andy (Mr Sheen) has sorted them, he took over 300 so he has a few to go through. The remander will be on his web site plus we will be doing an article for "Sprint" mag!
Andy
Well just got home from looking at the Speed 12.
A very interesting project to do if I am luck to get the car!
But I fear the big money is on it going to Germany, were it will join a private collection of cars, I am not certain if that collection is avaliable to view or not!
I will post up a few detailed pics when Andy (Mr Sheen) has sorted them, he took over 300 so he has a few to go through. The remander will be on his web site plus we will be doing an article for "Sprint" mag!
Andy
Edited by Mr Tank on Saturday 1st December 22:58
Hi
The engine is the bigest problem we can see from today!
The block could be refabricated as David says but at what cost and would it be anymore reliable today than it was back in 1998/99
Its not just two speed heads on a specal block as TVR folk law suggests!
We know what the gearbox was, the rear axle has also been identified!
From what we can evaluate the hubs are again not a problem, as we can see what they were from our experance!
The chassis has had no protection from new it looks as though it had no or little paint, it also appears to be bonded in some places to the body!
The car is infact a very basic design compared to the Cerbie 12! But it will not be a simple or cheap restoration no matter what way is chosen for its future!
But what a lot of car its over 6ft 6in wide has no hubs so is moved about on a couple of doolies!
The engine is the bigest problem we can see from today!
The block could be refabricated as David says but at what cost and would it be anymore reliable today than it was back in 1998/99
Its not just two speed heads on a specal block as TVR folk law suggests!
We know what the gearbox was, the rear axle has also been identified!
From what we can evaluate the hubs are again not a problem, as we can see what they were from our experance!
The chassis has had no protection from new it looks as though it had no or little paint, it also appears to be bonded in some places to the body!
The car is infact a very basic design compared to the Cerbie 12! But it will not be a simple or cheap restoration no matter what way is chosen for its future!
But what a lot of car its over 6ft 6in wide has no hubs so is moved about on a couple of doolies!
Edited by Mr Tank on Saturday 1st December 22:55
Mr Tank said:
Hi
Well just got home from looking at the Speed 12.
A very intersting project to do if I am luck to get the car!
But I fear the big money is on it going to Germany, were It will join a private collection of cars, I am not certain if that collection is avaliable to view or not!
I will post up a few detailed pics when Andy (Mr Sheen) as sorted them, he took over 300 so he has a few to go through. The remander will be on his webb site plus we will be doing an article for "Sprint" mag!
Andy
There's always an overseas buyer with a private collection. Well just got home from looking at the Speed 12.
A very intersting project to do if I am luck to get the car!
But I fear the big money is on it going to Germany, were It will join a private collection of cars, I am not certain if that collection is avaliable to view or not!
I will post up a few detailed pics when Andy (Mr Sheen) as sorted them, he took over 300 so he has a few to go through. The remander will be on his webb site plus we will be doing an article for "Sprint" mag!
Andy
Edited by Mr Tank on Saturday 1st December 18:57
Mr Tank said:
Hi
The engine is the bigest problem we can see from today! The block could be refabricated as David says but at what cost and would it be anymore reliable today than it was back in 1998/99
Its not just two speed heads on a specal block as TVR folk law suggests!
We know what the gearbox was, the rear axle has also be identified!
From what we can evaluate the hubs are again not a problem as we can see what they were from our experance!
The chassis has had no protection from new it looks as though it had no or little paint, it also appears to be bonded in some places to the body!
The car is infact a very basic design compared to the Cerbie 12! But it will not be a simple or cheap restoration no matter what way is chosen for its future!
But what a lot of car its over 6ft 6in wide has no hubs so is moved about on a couple of doolies!
They told my dad a serious TVR car collector was going to view the car Saturday and probably buy it,that was you Andy The engine is the bigest problem we can see from today! The block could be refabricated as David says but at what cost and would it be anymore reliable today than it was back in 1998/99
Its not just two speed heads on a specal block as TVR folk law suggests!
We know what the gearbox was, the rear axle has also be identified!
From what we can evaluate the hubs are again not a problem as we can see what they were from our experance!
The chassis has had no protection from new it looks as though it had no or little paint, it also appears to be bonded in some places to the body!
The car is infact a very basic design compared to the Cerbie 12! But it will not be a simple or cheap restoration no matter what way is chosen for its future!
But what a lot of car its over 6ft 6in wide has no hubs so is moved about on a couple of doolies!
TA14 said:
Mr Tank said:
dhf said:
He'd want want at least 350
What £350 great I will be able to afford it then! 
P/X my 350SE I would have to think about it!
Ok though about it and to get the Speed 12 I would part with my 350SE maybe my 45OSE as well, plus the £350 job done.
I will send the lorry up tomorrow!
O! if its was just as simple as that it would be great!
Andy
Edited by Mr Tank on Sunday 2nd December 14:06
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