New TVR confirmed
Discussion
xRIEx said:
AOK said:
xRIEx said:
'Back to basics' V8 like the Mustang, which with Ford's massive resources and economies of scale (selling hundreds of thousands of them) has a starting price of £33k? I can't see a low volume manufacturer getting anywhere near that sort of price.
Correct me if I'm wrong but both Ginetta and Lotus sell 'no thrills' cars starting from £30k and buy their engines in as well.The base Elise uses a mass-produced 1.6l 134bhp engine; prices start at about £31k.
The vapourware TVR uses a low volume production V8 created by a specialist engine manufacturer. They formerly sold the Sagaris at around £50k 10 years ago (£67-68k adjusted for inflation), £96-97K inflation adjusted for the Typhon.
Which bit of that suggests TVR can viably produce a bespoke-engined V8, low volume sports car for under £40k, or that they even want to?
Plus, if you go and sit in a Ginetta you very much get the feeling that they are somewhat expensive given the state of them. And Lotus has a massive facility and years of experience to build their product. But what both have in common is that no one in the UK wants one. If you are planning to sell purely in the UK to start with, I cannot see the commercial sense in targeting your product at a client base that catagorically doesn't exist.
ChimpOnGas said:
On the face of it this makes a very credible read, they do seem to have a proper plan here.
While we're talking creditability it doesn't get much better than Gordon Murray__ and __Cosworth, both iconic British brands in their own right its clear Les Edgar wants to keep the TVR brand British and will be relaunching the marque on that basis.
Les says he's well funded, and no doubt there are a millions involved but this is still peanuts in the world of car production and TVR will always be a niche market low volume producer of sports cars that ultimately have a very limited market.
History is littered with low volume British sports car manufacturers that have gone to the wall; but not all die, Caterham & Ginetta both survive mostly supported by a one marque race series which is a far more profitable business model than simply building road cars.
Morgan live solely off road car production but they only really keep going because they're so tiny they can immediately respond to small changes in demand. Only Lotus stands out as the nearest match to what Les is trying to create in company size, but he'll be fighting for the same customer base and it does seem Lotus themselves struggle to stay alive.
Is there really room for another Lotus?
Les needs to be careful entering the market as a medium sized low volume sports car producer as this is by far the riskiest bracket to be in, the safety & emissions legislation imposed by the European Union alone means car production is a very expensive business these days.
All the big boys are developing cars at least five years in advance, the new TVR may well be a forward thinking design but the truth is it'll almost certainly be non-compliant withing three to five years of its release. Building cars in this day & age is a business that only really suits the big multinational established producers because only they are shifting enough units to generate the revenue required to reinvest in the development of future models & engines that will meet the next series of cripplingly strict regulations.
And this legislation challenge is relentless, it never stops, the regs just get harder & harder every few years.
I'm a massive fan of the TVR brand, I love the whole British underdog story and the working class hero product they've always tried to create. But if I put my business head on I would not be queuing up to invest or get involved in such a company.
Can they really survive for longer than five years?
I really hope they can and they may well know something I don't, but the British low volume sports car industry has always been built on a foundation of passion, tradition & romance..... and unfortunately you don't build a credible long term sustainable business plan on on passion, tradition & romance..
You build a credible business plan on profit & loss
yawn. What is this, the Financial Times? No it is pistonheads, enthusiasm please.While we're talking creditability it doesn't get much better than Gordon Murray__ and __Cosworth, both iconic British brands in their own right its clear Les Edgar wants to keep the TVR brand British and will be relaunching the marque on that basis.
Les says he's well funded, and no doubt there are a millions involved but this is still peanuts in the world of car production and TVR will always be a niche market low volume producer of sports cars that ultimately have a very limited market.
History is littered with low volume British sports car manufacturers that have gone to the wall; but not all die, Caterham & Ginetta both survive mostly supported by a one marque race series which is a far more profitable business model than simply building road cars.
Morgan live solely off road car production but they only really keep going because they're so tiny they can immediately respond to small changes in demand. Only Lotus stands out as the nearest match to what Les is trying to create in company size, but he'll be fighting for the same customer base and it does seem Lotus themselves struggle to stay alive.
Is there really room for another Lotus?
Les needs to be careful entering the market as a medium sized low volume sports car producer as this is by far the riskiest bracket to be in, the safety & emissions legislation imposed by the European Union alone means car production is a very expensive business these days.
All the big boys are developing cars at least five years in advance, the new TVR may well be a forward thinking design but the truth is it'll almost certainly be non-compliant withing three to five years of its release. Building cars in this day & age is a business that only really suits the big multinational established producers because only they are shifting enough units to generate the revenue required to reinvest in the development of future models & engines that will meet the next series of cripplingly strict regulations.
And this legislation challenge is relentless, it never stops, the regs just get harder & harder every few years.
I'm a massive fan of the TVR brand, I love the whole British underdog story and the working class hero product they've always tried to create. But if I put my business head on I would not be queuing up to invest or get involved in such a company.
Can they really survive for longer than five years?
I really hope they can and they may well know something I don't, but the British low volume sports car industry has always been built on a foundation of passion, tradition & romance..... and unfortunately you don't build a credible long term sustainable business plan on on passion, tradition & romance..
You build a credible business plan on profit & loss
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 3rd June 09:13
dinkel said:
To survive TVR needs to start all over again. Most car enthusiasts have never heard of TVR. In Europe they are rarely seen on the roads. In the UK it's another story. Car peeps know their history. On the Continent ... not so.
To get a piece of the market dropping a new TVR there isn't enough. The TVR brand is just a 3 letter name with a strange history.
Better try starting up with an angry MX5 which is a Boxter rival. Then make money and get a serious position in the market and grow. It's not 2004 anymore. Eleven years ago!
This story smells like another empty episode in the ongoing TVR saga. But then: crossing fingers this might actually lift off.
Maybe they aren't doing it to try and make millions out of people? To get a piece of the market dropping a new TVR there isn't enough. The TVR brand is just a 3 letter name with a strange history.
Better try starting up with an angry MX5 which is a Boxter rival. Then make money and get a serious position in the market and grow. It's not 2004 anymore. Eleven years ago!
This story smells like another empty episode in the ongoing TVR saga. But then: crossing fingers this might actually lift off.
xRIEx said:
AOK said:
xRIEx said:
'Back to basics' V8 like the Mustang, which with Ford's massive resources and economies of scale (selling hundreds of thousands of them) has a starting price of £33k? I can't see a low volume manufacturer getting anywhere near that sort of price.
Correct me if I'm wrong but both Ginetta and Lotus sell 'no thrills' cars starting from £30k and buy their engines in as well.The base Elise uses a mass-produced 1.6l 134bhp engine; prices start at about £31k.
The vapourware TVR uses a low volume production V8 created by a specialist engine manufacturer. They formerly sold the Sagaris at around £50k 10 years ago (£67-68k adjusted for inflation), £96-97K inflation adjusted for the Typhon.
Which bit of that suggests TVR can viably produce a bespoke-engined V8, low volume sports car for under £40k, or that they even want to?
T350c's launched at £38,500. That's about £54-55k adjusted for inflation... another £10k for a better engine and more sophisticated technology? I see it as doable and would rather see them focus on this than an £100k offering. Plenty of smaller companies have attempted British £100k 'supercars' in the last few years and most have failed.
Excellent news all round just a small word of caution.
The info I was told is that the new car my not look exactly like the computer images that are floating around at present.
When they 3D printed the cad design for the new car it looked ‘awful’ in the flesh.
So they have gone back to the traditional method of creating the prototype out of clay.
Also engines have been built and are currently on the tested bed - dyno.
The info I was told is that the new car my not look exactly like the computer images that are floating around at present.
When they 3D printed the cad design for the new car it looked ‘awful’ in the flesh.
So they have gone back to the traditional method of creating the prototype out of clay.
Also engines have been built and are currently on the tested bed - dyno.
Edited by zooooom on Wednesday 3rd June 11:50
From Murray... “The days when Britain ruled the waves with Triumph and Austin Healey and MG and stuff: that was just fantastic. Those weren't high performance cars but they were fun cars. Now that we've got all the speed cameras and all the rest of it now, I honestly think if we could build an affordable, stiff, great handling, good looking little sports car that would be a better achievement than doing another supercar. Actually, it’s a thing I want to do most of all.” "An affordable sports car; a sort of modern Healey Sprite, if you like"
That's great but give it 470+bhp
That's great but give it 470+bhp
AOK said:
900T-R said:
dinkel said:
Most car enthusiasts have never heard of TVR.
Really? I've yet to find one that can be classed as a car enthusiast. Arrive anywhere where car guys and gals gather, in a TVR = instant recognition.AOK said:
They need a £30-40k 'back to basics' roadster to blow Ginetta and Lotus out of the water. I'd see this as their car to attract younger owners, track day enthusiasts, Chimaera drivers of old etc. Little in the way of creature comforts, just a well-handling, rwd sports car with an entry level of tune to their V8 proposition.
Let's start from there. And be realistic: there's more choice today then there was 11 years ago.
The is good news! 
However is it just me that thinks Gordon Murray can be a bit of a twit sometimes?
However is it just me that thinks Gordon Murray can be a bit of a twit sometimes?
article said:
At heart it uses conventional steel tubes but the composite panels are bonded to it, creating a lightweight and rigid structure.
Apparently Gordon thinks that the TVR backbone chassis is very weak so surprising to hear they are using a similar idea, even with the bonded elements: https://youtu.be/lqTbdmbL7mU?t=5m2sEdited by ecs0set on Wednesday 3rd June 12:47
From TVR website:
- V8, front-engined with manual transmission & rear wheel drive
- Incredible value for money
Please, if you could just avoid customer satisfaction surveys and be the first company since ..well TVR to achieve these two aims again, it's a done deal!
It doesn't need fancy tech, it doesn't need lane control/electric crap/dynamic anything.
It just needs a back to basics, impolitely tuned V8, RWD with LSD, Manual gearbox and an ergonomic place to sit and drive it.
I'll just pop to the classifieds and get a T350 to celebrate while I wait.
- V8, front-engined with manual transmission & rear wheel drive
- Incredible value for money
Please, if you could just avoid customer satisfaction surveys and be the first company since ..well TVR to achieve these two aims again, it's a done deal!
It doesn't need fancy tech, it doesn't need lane control/electric crap/dynamic anything.
It just needs a back to basics, impolitely tuned V8, RWD with LSD, Manual gearbox and an ergonomic place to sit and drive it.
I'll just pop to the classifieds and get a T350 to celebrate while I wait.
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