New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
Breaking news....the TVR pen I "borrowed" off the stand at the Goodwood launch is still running fine and not gone wrong once!
Also, this thread that I started when the new Griffith wasnt revealed at the London Motor Show on Thursday 5th May 2016 has now reached 315 pages and 6,300 posts. Is this a PH record?
Lastly, still no sign of the deposit holders questionnaire....
Also, this thread that I started when the new Griffith wasnt revealed at the London Motor Show on Thursday 5th May 2016 has now reached 315 pages and 6,300 posts. Is this a PH record?
Lastly, still no sign of the deposit holders questionnaire....
bullittmcqueen said:
Stu, i think it currently ranks second in the TVR section with only a few hundred posts missing to take the pole. It is currently held by the "What did you do in the garage yesterday" thread, and that's not really a one-topic thread by design.
So let's hope for more delays from TVR to keep this thread busy
Cheers Bullitt et al, So let's hope for more delays from TVR to keep this thread busy
As we wont see the new car for at least another 12 months I reckon the thread will become the leading TVR thread for numbers of posts. Do I get a certificate? LOL
tvrolet said:
Ooh, I get between 101 & 150. Based on the the deposit list wiki on here I'm in 23rd place, and you're in 38th...but your deposit is a year and a half later. Someone smarter than I and with more interest in things like this can no doubt try to extrapolate how the deposits came in. I'm guessing 100+ in the first couple of weeks, then 300 or so more in the 18 months through to Jan 2017, and the balance since then? I wonder would the expectation have been that the 500 deposits would have been taken up in the first 12 months, and this not happening has delayed funding or something?
Nothing else to do right now other than speculate on things...
From TVR deposit holders group the first 50 deposits were taken by about 6pm on the first day then up to 100 by second day. Up to 200 by the end of July 2015. Then up to 300 by May 2016. I read somewhere that they were at just over 400 at the reveal at Goodwood September 2017. They then took enough deposits over Goodwood weekend to take numbers to the magic 500.Nothing else to do right now other than speculate on things...
spagbogdog said:
DonkeyApple said:
spagbogdog said:
It doesn’t make sense to sub out sales to a ‘Stratstone’..when they already have their ‘heritage’ network already insitu in the UK.
Raving Green, Fernhurst, James Agger etc are better placed and understand their clientele better.
They only need 7 or 8 showrooms plus of course their own factory. Online marketing will ramp up.
I do think they’ll target the US though..and partner with Ford over there (which makes a whole lot more sense).
Disagree. None of those entities are in the right locations and none of them are used to selling this type of product to the type of customer that TVR will be targeting. Raving Green, Fernhurst, James Agger etc are better placed and understand their clientele better.
They only need 7 or 8 showrooms plus of course their own factory. Online marketing will ramp up.
I do think they’ll target the US though..and partner with Ford over there (which makes a whole lot more sense).
They will be taking sales from other manufacturers. They need to deliver what those consumers expect. Not deliver what we have been willing, or forced to put up with. The existing/remaining network is geared up to fundamentally cater for strong brand fans, widely spread around the U.K. with relatively cheap cars. It’s not remotely appropriate to handle hundreds of urban, high value sales.
They need more than 7/8 sales points, they need to be where the potential customers are, cities and they need to look professional.
Targeting the US is always risky but the potential returns are obviously huge. Will be an expensive car over there, over $150k by the time you’ve converted currencies and covered taxes. I know they built this car to be eligible for EU sales but that market looks awful at the moment. I do hope that they have proper distribution in place both here and in a key market overseas.
Interestingly TopCats have an open day with the new Griff (surely no coincidence..). I'll stick with my thoughts..that they'll use 7 or 8 "flagship" heritage dealerships plus of course the factory...and use digital media to force their message home. If the Griff is better round a track than a GT3RS it won't take very long for customers to seek it out. Most of those "types" will buy direct from the factory (and get there by helicopter)...the flagship dealerships will provide the servicing / backup and pick up anciliary sales...
I can see the Griff in 'high-end' US showrooms sat between Mustangs and GT's...America has always loved muscle cars and top-end straight line speed... I rather suspect they'll race them over there too...
spagbogdog said:
DonkeyApple said:
America is a really dodgy country to sell cars into. TVR got spanked many moons ago on some regulatory or tax change, Lotus got bailed in 2015 and had to stop selling cars due to a regulatory change.
On top of that you have to massively hedge your currency risk as that has a long track record of wiping firms out.
And then we have the slight issue of trade agreements. Who’s got the pockets deep enough to have a punt on that aspect.
It would be lovely to see TVR expand into that market but it strikes me as ludicrously high risk and the sort of move that puts the whole company in jeopardy.
A dealer network agreement for the EU still seems more logical. The brand is known and despite Brexit with the U.K. being a net importer of EU cars it’s a safer bet that a car that’s already EU complaint will still be able to be exported and sold post Brexit than the US.
Asia probably looks better than the US. Easy enough to set up iStream and build, labour cheaper and the middle class consumers are wealthier and more numerous.
God knows but I don’t envy TVR who have stated that overseas sales are hugely important and none of the three main markets look remotely easy to crack.
Engine and transmission are american...ice-cream factory..ooops..IStream factory can "pop-up" anywhere according to Les...which significantly de-risks the project. American trade deal with Trump on the cards...Maybe..just maybe...they could pull this off ....On top of that you have to massively hedge your currency risk as that has a long track record of wiping firms out.
And then we have the slight issue of trade agreements. Who’s got the pockets deep enough to have a punt on that aspect.
It would be lovely to see TVR expand into that market but it strikes me as ludicrously high risk and the sort of move that puts the whole company in jeopardy.
A dealer network agreement for the EU still seems more logical. The brand is known and despite Brexit with the U.K. being a net importer of EU cars it’s a safer bet that a car that’s already EU complaint will still be able to be exported and sold post Brexit than the US.
Asia probably looks better than the US. Easy enough to set up iStream and build, labour cheaper and the middle class consumers are wealthier and more numerous.
God knows but I don’t envy TVR who have stated that overseas sales are hugely important and none of the three main markets look remotely easy to crack.
looks like a crab ................. nothings perfect 
not even the T cars or the 90's Griff Hobo said:
I see what your saying, but personally don't believe it is quite that.
90k at present gives you a 'lot' of options, and increase that slightly and your into some serious machinery territory. This isn't really like the TVR of old, who sold relatively cheap and were pitched against limited other more expensive options. They were also ridiculous looking (love it or hate it style), and the new model is a bit.... meh/plain.
Like I said.. I genuinely hope it works out, but personally just can't see them getting enough people to commit to the brand like they did it the older days, as things have moved on. People are more financially savvy, the way vehicles are financed has changed, etc, etc. The later will no doubt result in a 120k GT3 being cheaper to own than a 90k TVR as the depreciation is likely less, and servicing the same, etc, etc.
Hobo, I'm genuinely interested to know what the 'lot' of options are as an alternative to the Griffith? New cars only though, if you look at used then the the list is potentially dozens and dozens.90k at present gives you a 'lot' of options, and increase that slightly and your into some serious machinery territory. This isn't really like the TVR of old, who sold relatively cheap and were pitched against limited other more expensive options. They were also ridiculous looking (love it or hate it style), and the new model is a bit.... meh/plain.
Like I said.. I genuinely hope it works out, but personally just can't see them getting enough people to commit to the brand like they did it the older days, as things have moved on. People are more financially savvy, the way vehicles are financed has changed, etc, etc. The later will no doubt result in a 120k GT3 being cheaper to own than a 90k TVR as the depreciation is likely less, and servicing the same, etc, etc.
I have a deposit but I am still not 100% certain of proceeding with the purchase particularly if there are better cars for the same money.
Hobo said:
Depends by what you mean by the 'same money'. If you mean list price the likely alternatives are going to be used, such as (to name a few);
- Porsche GT3/4/turbo
- AM Vanquish/DBS/V12V
- Audi R8
- Ferrari F430/599
- Mclaren 12c
- Jaguar F-type
- AMG GT
However to many nowadays list price means very little as it's all about residuals, and therefore monthly payments. On this level there are more expensive cars which will work out cheaper over say 3 or 4 years. Let's be fair, after the first few.months this thing is going to plummet in value unless the market picks up seriously (I recall my T350 ownership costing me over 1k a month in residuals alone from new to 2 years old and that was a 50k car I think - by reflection my GTS cost me absolutely nothing over the same period).
To me, for TVR to stand a chance they had be make something like of old, ie shouty and completely different to what else is out there. The problem is there are now too many others doing similar, and the TVR is just a bit bland (the interior is an embarrasment). It needed to create the same buzz as when it launched the Sagaris and it's just hasn't (to me anyway).
Apart from the F type, those cars new are nearer £150k which is a long way from £90k. - Porsche GT3/4/turbo
- AM Vanquish/DBS/V12V
- Audi R8
- Ferrari F430/599
- Mclaren 12c
- Jaguar F-type
- AMG GT
However to many nowadays list price means very little as it's all about residuals, and therefore monthly payments. On this level there are more expensive cars which will work out cheaper over say 3 or 4 years. Let's be fair, after the first few.months this thing is going to plummet in value unless the market picks up seriously (I recall my T350 ownership costing me over 1k a month in residuals alone from new to 2 years old and that was a 50k car I think - by reflection my GTS cost me absolutely nothing over the same period).
To me, for TVR to stand a chance they had be make something like of old, ie shouty and completely different to what else is out there. The problem is there are now too many others doing similar, and the TVR is just a bit bland (the interior is an embarrasment). It needed to create the same buzz as when it launched the Sagaris and it's just hasn't (to me anyway).
Testarossa said:
Yes, I'm having sleepless nights worrying about essexstu - what will life be like for him without "New TVR still under wraps!"?
Thanks Testarossa, try not to worry though, I think it will be a while before another thread overtakes this one on the pages and posts stakes. Sceptical of the TVR "has run out of money" claim though. There are plenty of other factories to choose from and the last email up date was very upbeat about news to be announced this month that was exciting and meant a big increase in production numbers. The £2.5M investment by the Welsh Assembly included the purchase of a 3% stake in TVR so why call in a the loan to put a company that you own part of into financial difficulty?
And would TVR still be doing things like testing bespoke tyres etc if they were close to going into financial difficulty? Doesn't make sense.
Edited by essexstu on Saturday 13th October 10:37
Targarama said:
Has Schmee’s video been discussed yet? I’m worried about the glacial gearchange. 500+ HP or not it won’t see which way my McLaren went at that rate. Hope it’s a bit slicker in the production version, I felt Les was taking it very gently on the demo drive.
I have the 6 speed Tremec in my Camaro and it's a lovely slick light gear change. RiknRoll said:
I actually requested exhaust valves also, would be somewhat useful when I don't want to make quite so much noise, like when leaving at 5am in the morning!
I was happy for fancy leather and stereo and such, I'm not as keen on loads of body kits and engine tuning. I mean, it probably won't need more power and honestly I don't want to have to spend another x thousand because there are "must have" power upgrades that just aren't needed, when you have 500bhp on tap on a light chassis anyway.
I also put switchable exhaust as a desired option. That is to switch from loud to very loud!!I was happy for fancy leather and stereo and such, I'm not as keen on loads of body kits and engine tuning. I mean, it probably won't need more power and honestly I don't want to have to spend another x thousand because there are "must have" power upgrades that just aren't needed, when you have 500bhp on tap on a light chassis anyway.
V8 GMS said:
I predict this forum is about to implode and essexstu will be feeling very sad and lonely this Christmas time...
ha ha, I do keep checking in on the thread to see how the squabbling and lively discussion is progressing and it always delivers. If I get to the point of asking for my deposit back and buying a Mercedes AMG GT then maybe I will request that the thread is closed......maybe.....Just checking in, over 400 pages eh, very good. Can we get to 10,000 posts?
So, sat in a Mercedes AMG GTS the other day. Fantastic looking car but cabin actually quite "cosy" and being a six footer I wasn't really able to have the seat as far back as I would like. Crossing it off the list sadly.
One car that looks very good value is the M2 Competition with the detuned M4 engine. Rave reviews and tuneable engine.
So, sat in a Mercedes AMG GTS the other day. Fantastic looking car but cabin actually quite "cosy" and being a six footer I wasn't really able to have the seat as far back as I would like. Crossing it off the list sadly.
One car that looks very good value is the M2 Competition with the detuned M4 engine. Rave reviews and tuneable engine.
Edited by essexstu on Friday 14th December 13:39
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