New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
Wish they kept the front lights as per the green car image - makes it look a lot meaner than the ones on the red launch car. Looks much nicer with spoiler lowered.
Looking forward to hearing some news from TVR - an email update just to let us know how they're getting on and to involve us depositors in 'the journey' would be nice.
Looking forward to hearing some news from TVR - an email update just to let us know how they're getting on and to involve us depositors in 'the journey' would be nice.
So from reading some of the above comments re production i think the warning light bulbs are beginning to flicker with some of you guys! Whilst the design has taken some critisism at the end of the day that is just personal taste. What is clear is that the world and car market is changing fast with some used sports cars have taken huge price drops for used cars over the last 6 months. Aside from that a birdy tells me that with the big welsh factory the break even for the company is circa 1800 units per year! Unless they have an investor with extremely deep pockets i dont think it will even be remotely possible to even get to test these levels- I believe Lotus doesnt sell anywhere near this amount of cars even with a varied product lines. So, i fear we are left with a company that will never be profitable as sights have been set too high. I guess the current delays are due to the search for that investor combined with the realization that the goals have been set are too high. The way i see it is that TVR should be a low production small facility aiming for 250 cars a year. That leads me to the conclusion that it wont survive in current format and will be purchased again by someone with a smaller and more sensible business plan. If i were a deposit holder i wouldnt be chatting about the style and when delivery might be- I would be questioning the safety of my deposit! Sorry to be such a kill joy as would love to see this great british brand again.
AUTODESIGN said:
Lots of interesting stuff
Your comments seem highly plausible although the actual total planned amount that will be produced isn't general knowledge, is it? Whatever the business plan is for volume, only time will tell.There are so many factors that need considering, bringing to fruition and cementing in place that it is pretty clear why we have lost so many manufactures since the 50's.
When you consider the costs to a mainstream manufacturer for designing, testing and bringing a totally new high end car to market it must be incredible. Surely this must have been looked into in the minutest detail? They can't have all been issued with rose tinted glasses, can they?
It will be more then a real shame if this doesn't work, forget the punters, it will be heartbreaking for all those involved.
I hope you're wrong.........
I would be very very surprised If TVR have 1800 units per year as part of any business plan. There is NO WAY they will achieve these numbers so I am not taking that figure seriously certainly not for the short to medium term and with only one model that's crazy numbers.
It would be good to hear an update though,
Moving to full scale production on the Griffith will be a real challenge and keeping to a short timeframe to get these cars made and delivered will be crucial if they are to have any hope of making a penny.
It would be good to hear an update though,
Moving to full scale production on the Griffith will be a real challenge and keeping to a short timeframe to get these cars made and delivered will be crucial if they are to have any hope of making a penny.
natben said:
I would be very very surprised If TVR have 1800 units per year as part of any business plan. There is NO WAY they will achieve these numbers so I am not taking that figure seriously certainly not for the short to medium term and with only one model that's crazy numbers.
It would be good to hear an update though,
Moving to full scale production on the Griffith will be a real challenge and keeping to a short timeframe to get these cars made and delivered will be crucial if they are to have any hope of making a penny.
1,800 might be part of the optimistic, 'this is what we'd like to be' plan. The old TVR happily bumbled along at about 500 units per year. When the sales fell towards 250 pa the over heads meant that they were no longer happy to sell £35 Tams and wanted to sell £70K Sags and collapsed. I know that this company has a different set up but history suggests that for a reasonable TVR you could base a business plan on 500 cars pa.It would be good to hear an update though,
Moving to full scale production on the Griffith will be a real challenge and keeping to a short timeframe to get these cars made and delivered will be crucial if they are to have any hope of making a penny.
Perhaps O/T but an interesting interview with Gordon Murray which includes commentary on iStream and TVR https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/gord...
TA14 said:
1,800 might be part of the optimistic, 'this is what we'd like to be' plan. The old TVR happily bumbled along at about 500 units per year. When the sales fell towards 250 pa the over heads meant that they were no longer happy to sell £35 Tams and wanted to sell £70K Sags and collapsed. I know that this company has a different set up but history suggests that for a reasonable TVR you could base a business plan on 500 cars pa.
Hear what you're saying their TA14, and understand the reluctance TVR had to sell £35 Tams. Not my favourite TVR but I'd certainly have paid £40 for one back in the day.ChilliWhizz said:
Hear what you're saying their TA14, and understand the reluctance TVR had to sell £35 Tams. Not my favourite TVR but I'd certainly have paid £40 for one back in the day.
I think they were over £40,000 once you put some leather interior and larger wheels etc on them. There wasn’t many options but not many had the small wheels and no leather. thecook101 said:
Perhaps O/T but an interesting interview with Gordon Murray which includes commentary on iStream and TVR https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/gord...
Thanks for posting 
You could listen to his stories all day. Right then, where's the update email from Les....another Xmas one I expect....I hope...
Moycie said:
Right then, where's the update email from Les....another Xmas one I expect....I hope...
I bl00dy hope so too....I hate to pi$$ on anyone's chips, but I'm starting to get a bit pee'd off with all this lack of information; there's no engagement whatsoever with folks that have laid down their hard-earned, and if that's a sign of 'customer service' to come then it surely isn't a good sign.
I've committed cash (as, of course, have others); I made the point of getting down to the London motor show whenever it was to see whatever it was under a cover...from Scotland. I paid for flights/rental car for me and the missus to fly down to see the 'reveal'. I've held-off buying anything else in the expectation of having a new TVR in my garage. I've kept schtum about all the 'secret' stuff at the reveal. I've been as committed as I can be, but in return all I seem to have got is a handful of emails, none of which make me aware of the spec, the options (if any), the price, when build starts, and when I might realistically expect to get mine.
I'm bored now looking at renderings, and comments on renderings, and even GM extolling the virtues of iStream. I've gone from excitement and anticipation to...and I hate to say it...apathy now. That C7 is looking mighty tempting.
At a time where the deposit holders should be a valuable asset evangelising everything about the new car, to date we've sod-all to evangelise about. And yet TVR are happy with the cash and effort to hawk the car around Goodwood and Birmingham, presumably to stir up more interest. Guys - spend 1% of that effort with the folks that have had faith in you and keep us in the loop and we'll do the marketing for you in the best possible way - word of mouth and personal experience. But as it is, it's not been a great experience so far.
/rant
Worst case scenario: We will get our deposits back (enough of the scaremongering people)
Second worst case scenario: There will be 500 Griffiths built - guaranteeing future values
Normal scenario: 2-3,000 TVRs built before things start unravelling - values will hold
Second best scenario: TVR turns into low volume producer with rare model launches - cars depreciate heavily until they find a base to build on
Best case scenario: TVR becomes a mainstream manufacturer and current deposit holders own the car that saved the company
I'm happy with any of the above (would be happier if the front end gets sorted though!)
Second worst case scenario: There will be 500 Griffiths built - guaranteeing future values
Normal scenario: 2-3,000 TVRs built before things start unravelling - values will hold
Second best scenario: TVR turns into low volume producer with rare model launches - cars depreciate heavily until they find a base to build on
Best case scenario: TVR becomes a mainstream manufacturer and current deposit holders own the car that saved the company
I'm happy with any of the above (would be happier if the front end gets sorted though!)
5k (or 2.5K for TVR Owners Club dudes) was to show commitment - TVR have taken the money
I think that is absolutely fair.
They are fully refundable UNTIL you spec your car or sign on the dotted line - then it's questionable whether you will get your money back from TVR, but you will probably be able to sell your allocation for possibly a premium (all depends on what Top Gear and The Grand Tour make of it!).
Hope that helps.
Ha ha we all just got an email - but probably not what we were expecting!
I think that is absolutely fair.
They are fully refundable UNTIL you spec your car or sign on the dotted line - then it's questionable whether you will get your money back from TVR, but you will probably be able to sell your allocation for possibly a premium (all depends on what Top Gear and The Grand Tour make of it!).
Hope that helps.
Ha ha we all just got an email - but probably not what we were expecting!
Edited by Testarossa on Wednesday 13th December 18:05
tvrolet said:
Moycie said:
Right then, where's the update email from Les....another Xmas one I expect....I hope...
I bl00dy hope so too....I hate to pi$$ on anyone's chips, but I'm starting to get a bit pee'd off with all this lack of information; there's no engagement whatsoever with folks that have laid down their hard-earned, and if that's a sign of 'customer service' to come then it surely isn't a good sign.
I've committed cash (as, of course, have others); I made the point of getting down to the London motor show whenever it was to see whatever it was under a cover...from Scotland. I paid for flights/rental car for me and the missus to fly down to see the 'reveal'. I've held-off buying anything else in the expectation of having a new TVR in my garage. I've kept schtum about all the 'secret' stuff at the reveal. I've been as committed as I can be, but in return all I seem to have got is a handful of emails, none of which make me aware of the spec, the options (if any), the price, when build starts, and when I might realistically expect to get mine.
I'm bored now looking at renderings, and comments on renderings, and even GM extolling the virtues of iStream. I've gone from excitement and anticipation to...and I hate to say it...apathy now. That C7 is looking mighty tempting.
At a time where the deposit holders should be a valuable asset evangelising everything about the new car, to date we've sod-all to evangelise about. And yet TVR are happy with the cash and effort to hawk the car around Goodwood and Birmingham, presumably to stir up more interest. Guys - spend 1% of that effort with the folks that have had faith in you and keep us in the loop and we'll do the marketing for you in the best possible way - word of mouth and personal experience. But as it is, it's not been a great experience so far.
/rant
On a second point, producing 1800 units a year is just over 7 per day on a five day week, give and take. This is possible, but it would need to be managed well. A motivated workforce can deliver if it has the infrastructure, an efficient assembly plan and excellent logistical organisation and support. If any one of those 4 factors is not on top form, then issues will spread through the company like an illness.
I like my Cerbera.
ajp70 said:
On a second point, producing 1800 units a year is just over 7 per day on a five day week, give and take. This is possible, but it would need to be managed well. A motivated workforce can deliver if it has the infrastructure, an efficient assembly plan and excellent logistical organisation and support. If any one of those 4 factors is not on top form, then issues will spread through the company like an illness.
On the one hand 1,800 pa is about 2% of Porsche's production, on the other hand it's about three or four times what TVR averaged historically and more than they've ever sold/produced in a year. Good luck to them; if they can produce and sell a quarter of that figure and survive I'd be very impressed. 450 cars pa, who else has dome that from a start up company in the last 25 years? Atom?ajp70 said:
Although i'm not a potential owner of the new Griffith, I totally agree with the sentiments above. I hope someone from TVR is reading this because communication is vitally important for customers because they need to have confidence and faith to reassure them that their purchase is truly appreciated by the company and it sets up and supports the rapport of the customer service relationship.
On a second point, producing 1800 units a year is just over 7 per day on a five day week, give and take. This is possible, but it would need to be managed well. A motivated workforce can deliver if it has the infrastructure, an efficient assembly plan and excellent logistical organisation and support. If any one of those 4 factors is not on top form, then issues will spread through the company like an illness.
I like my Cerbera.
7 per day is about what Tesla cranks out for Model 3. The difference is they were planning for x-thousand per month and now Elon Musk is sleeping in the factory to get things sorted out. I don't think you need to hire hundreds of people to build 5 cars per day in static slots as they sure will plan to. Processes on that scale are pretty easy to optimize as they have no complicated supply-chains, just-in-time delivery etc. They won't have orders coming in by the minute. I've seen pics of the shacks in which old TVRs were made. I'm sure they will have something more "luxurious" in mind, but surely a mega-factory will not be needed.On a second point, producing 1800 units a year is just over 7 per day on a five day week, give and take. This is possible, but it would need to be managed well. A motivated workforce can deliver if it has the infrastructure, an efficient assembly plan and excellent logistical organisation and support. If any one of those 4 factors is not on top form, then issues will spread through the company like an illness.
I like my Cerbera.
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