New TVR still under wraps!

[AUTODESIGN]

But this is my point- I believe with the large welsh factory break even is circa 1800 units. I dont think thats achievable and half that number would be a good result. Thats why the goals should be reduced or this company will nor survive in this format. If the deposit holderS start to lose faith it will be like a run on a bank and it will fail. In my opinion this is closer than we think. A simple dip in the economy could do this let alone TVR doing such a splendid job of upsetting its client case. Even with 200 deposits withdrawn its an entirely different scenario! Such a shame they cant see this - PLease listen to the comments TVR!

[VULCANT]

tvrolet said:

Moycie said:

Right then, where's the update email from Les....another Xmas one I expect....I hope...

I bl00dy hope so too....

I hate to pi$$ on anyone's chips, but I'm starting to get a bit pee'd off with all this lack of information; there's no engagement whatsoever with folks that have laid down their hard-earned, and if that's a sign of 'customer service' to come then it surely isn't a good sign.

I've committed cash (as, of course, have others); I made the point of getting down to the London motor show whenever it was to see whatever it was under a cover...from Scotland. I paid for flights/rental car for me and the missus to fly down to see the 'reveal'. I've held-off buying anything else in the expectation of having a new TVR in my garage. I've kept schtum about all the 'secret' stuff at the reveal. I've been as committed as I can be, but in return all I seem to have got is a handful of emails, none of which make me aware of the spec, the options (if any), the price, when build starts, and when I might realistically expect to get mine.

I'm bored now looking at renderings, and comments on renderings, and even GM extolling the virtues of iStream. I've gone from excitement and anticipation to...and I hate to say it...apathy now. That C7 is looking mighty tempting.

At a time where the deposit holders should be a valuable asset evangelising everything about the new car, to date we've sod-all to evangelise about. And yet TVR are happy with the cash and effort to hawk the car around Goodwood and Birmingham, presumably to stir up more interest. Guys - spend 1% of that effort with the folks that have had faith in you and keep us in the loop and we'll do the marketing for you in the best possible way - word of mouth and personal experience. But as it is, it's not been a great experience so far.

/rant

Agree with all of the above, it doesn't take long to drop an email to those who have shown their faith in TVR by placing deposits.

Show us anything, options, colours (maybe just a general update) .. anything! As the above post said, you'd be amazed how much more your best custodians (i.e. us deposit holders) would talk about you if you only gave us something to talk about!

[bullittmcqueen]

AUTODESIGN said:

But this is my point- I believe with the large welsh factory break even is circa 1800 units. I dont think thats achievable and half that number would be a good result. Thats why the goals should be reduced or this company will nor survive in this format. If the deposit holderS start to lose faith it will be like a run on a bank and it will fail. In my opinion this is closer than we think. A simple dip in the economy could do this let alone TVR doing such a splendid job of upsetting its client case. Even with 200 deposits withdrawn its an entirely different scenario! Such a shame they cant see this - PLease listen to the comments TVR!

Hm.

first, i am pretty sure they ARE listening, i've even seen a shortcut to PH in one of the designers browsers in one of the videos :-)

I agree on factory. But the pics that were once passed around were showing a way too large building anyway. If they got additional space for free, it might still have been a good idea, but not if they had to pay for it.

There were various articles about the funding of the company. Government payments, Financing firms, plus the investment from the owners. I firmly believe that the deposits are safe and untouched, i don't think, and they have said so, that they are using the money for operational purposes. So 200 people asking their money back would not pose a liquidity problem, hence no bank run. I'm willing to lose my deposit on that belief. It would pose a serious threat to the business perspective though if 200 people would pull out, but that doesn't seem to have happened after the launch.

While driving home from work i was thinking about alternatives, what would i really like in a car. And it always boils down to: a big displacement, naturally aspirated V8, lightweight, rear-wheel drive, manual transmission, no bells and whistles, sufficiently rare, mental and badass !

There is no alternative, they must succeed !

[AUTODESIGN]

i do agree about that last bit of big v8 ,rwd and manual. maybe that is the bit we are missing as short of a corvette what is there to buy?!

[Moycie]

VULCANT said:

tvrolet said:

Moycie said:

Right then, where's the update email from Les....another Xmas one I expect....I hope...

I bl00dy hope so too....

I hate to pi$$ on anyone's chips, but I'm starting to get a bit pee'd off with all this lack of information; there's no engagement whatsoever with folks that have laid down their hard-earned, and if that's a sign of 'customer service' to come then it surely isn't a good sign.

I've committed cash (as, of course, have others); I made the point of getting down to the London motor show whenever it was to see whatever it was under a cover...from Scotland. I paid for flights/rental car for me and the missus to fly down to see the 'reveal'. I've held-off buying anything else in the expectation of having a new TVR in my garage. I've kept schtum about all the 'secret' stuff at the reveal. I've been as committed as I can be, but in return all I seem to have got is a handful of emails, none of which make me aware of the spec, the options (if any), the price, when build starts, and when I might realistically expect to get mine.

I'm bored now looking at renderings, and comments on renderings, and even GM extolling the virtues of iStream. I've gone from excitement and anticipation to...and I hate to say it...apathy now. That C7 is looking mighty tempting.

At a time where the deposit holders should be a valuable asset evangelising everything about the new car, to date we've sod-all to evangelise about. And yet TVR are happy with the cash and effort to hawk the car around Goodwood and Birmingham, presumably to stir up more interest. Guys - spend 1% of that effort with the folks that have had faith in you and keep us in the loop and we'll do the marketing for you in the best possible way - word of mouth and personal experience. But as it is, it's not been a great experience so far.

/rant

Agree with all of the above, it doesn't take long to drop an email to those who have shown their faith in TVR by placing deposits.

Show us anything, options, colours (maybe just a general update) .. anything! As the above post said, you'd be amazed how much more your best custodians (i.e. us deposit holders) would talk about you if you only gave us something to talk about!

I must admit, I thought we might have had details on the specifications, and/or options, LE colours, etc. I guess these things are still changeable, so they are holding back. I still think it's going to be worth the wait though, just hard keeping the faith when all is deathly quiet isn't it!! The wait is pretty tough! Fortunately I have my Griff 500 and Cerbera in the meantime.

[swisstoni]

I realise it’s a very small company and should probably be on first name terms with deposit holders.

But is it reasonable to expect a blow-by-blow account of what’s going on all the time?

[Griffithy]

bullittmcqueen said:

While driving home from work i was thinking about alternatives

Bullitmcqueen thinking about alternatives.
Very bad sign.


Time to wake up, TVR.

[Moycie]

swisstoni said:

I realise it’s a very small company and should probably be on first name terms with deposit holders.

But is it reasonable to expect a blow-by-blow account of what’s going on all the time?

Probably not, I agree. The last update was September post Goodwood. We are all just impatient Although, in reality, very calm and relaxed...deposit holders have been waiting since July 2015 after all ....

I'm happy Les and team got to where they are right now, working away in the background. I'm also happy for them to get it right and not publish information until they are ready. Why lock yourself into undue pressures with expectations and specifications, etc.

It's got quiet at my work for year end now, so it's just a hunt for more information on my side...

[bullittmcqueen]

swisstoni said:

I realise it’s a very small company and should probably be on first name terms with deposit holders.

But is it reasonable to expect a blow-by-blow account of what’s going on all the time?

Spot on.

I can imagine that going to Goodwood was quite a stunt in terms of workload and there are a gazillion things still to do that, when done, don't look much like progress. Then comes testing, type approval, driving, figuring out assembly, etc. and not lose focus on the business side either. From an outsiders point of view it's easy to say "yeah, just do it, what's the problem", but anyone who's been in involved in a bigger project (and it is a big one) will now that things just don't work this way. So an update every 3-4 month is actually fine for me. I also believe there will be some further, hopefully short, delays until the first guy gets his car.

Next milestones i'm waiting for is: final approval, factory/production, cars for press-reviews. My guess is that somewhen after approval will be crunch-time and people will have to finally commit.

I guess there will be an end of year update soon laying out some of these points..

[essexstu]

Just to clarify previous production numbers and profitability (from a trusted source)

"At their peak in 1998 the actual break even per week was 18 cars.

TVR were actually producing 38 per week so were very profitable which is one of the reasons PRW was able to take over £3 million out of the company in that year alone!

Production from 1992 to 1999 was always at a high level."

The new TVR uses a completely different manufacturing process though so build numbers to profitability ratio will I assume be different and fewer cars will need to be built daily to turn a profit/break even. Does anyone seriously think Les & team have not done the number crunching on this venture? I do remember TVR saying that they will not actually make any money from the LE car, it should break even and is being used to re-launch the brand. It's the follow up standard car without the carbon chassis and Cosworth engine upgrade etc that they hope to sell 1000-1500 of annually and make a profit.

Also agree that TVR need to update depositeers with timeline for production, what colour/wheel options etc will be and where we are in the bloody queue! My deposit was placed on day two and I am a patient man but....come on TVR...tell me what is going on!

Merry Xmas all!

[DonkeyApple]

AUTODESIGN said:

But this is my point- I believe with the large welsh factory break even is circa 1800 units. I dont think thats achievable and half that number would be a good result. Thats why the goals should be reduced or this company will nor survive in this format. If the deposit holderS start to lose faith it will be like a run on a bank and it will fail. In my opinion this is closer than we think. A simple dip in the economy could do this let alone TVR doing such a splendid job of upsetting its client case. Even with 200 deposits withdrawn its an entirely different scenario! Such a shame they cant see this - PLease listen to the comments TVR!

That wouldn’t seem right given the rental cost of commercial units down there and the fact that that is then being covered by a large extent by grants. Labour head count is going to be very low, an absolute fraction of what it was in Blackpool and obviously the whole point of iStream.

Let’s say that the net cost of rolling a new TVR onto a customer’s drive is £75,000. 1,800 units would equate to an operational cost of £135m per annum.

Now does that sound right to you?

[bullittmcqueen]

Griffithy said:

bullittmcqueen said:

While driving home from work i was thinking about alternatives

Bullitmcqueen thinking about alternatives.
Very bad sign.


Time to wake up, TVR.

Lol, dammit. But alright, I'll wear that fanboy hat

Really, outlook is dire if this doesn't work out. Before i knew about the TVR and after a long search i was close to getting a Vette C7 Z06 or even take the greater risk of buying a shady Cobra here in Germany. But the Cobras all have legal issues and carry the risk of being illegal to drive on some roads soon or evtl. not at all, it all happened.

The Vette is too heavy, too shiny, too american. Its audience has a somewhat questionable reputation. Would be ok, but only ok.

Viper. Yes, cool. But again one of those things going out of production. I would also probably be single again if i got one.

Lotusses. Well, Exige is cool, and my current highest ranking alternative, but no V8, not muscly enough, generally lacking in madness.

Italian marques are not my thing at all.

So really, the new TVR hits it very close to home, no doubt. (There are things i would change, it's not 100% perfect. I think the rear diffusor is clearly overdone and the front could be more aggressive)

[RichB]

bullittmcqueen said:

Really, outlook is dire if this doesn't work out... <clip>

Aston Martin V8 Vantage?

[bullittmcqueen]

RichB said:

bullittmcqueen said:

Really, outlook is dire if this doesn't work out... <clip>

Aston Martin V8 Vantage?

Only the 1977

[RichB]

Just curious; current Vantage is V8, RWD, good looking etc.

[ChilliWhizz]

bullittmcqueen said:

RichB said:

bullittmcqueen said:

Really, outlook is dire if this doesn't work out... <clip>

Aston Martin V8 Vantage?

Only the 1977

'77 on Vantage are way over new TVR prices, cheapest in the PH classifieds recently was £160k, and the performance is rather less than new TVR, so not really a like for like kind of comparison (as I'm sure you know).

I posted this last Sunday....

ChilliWhizz said:

Unveiling of new TVR online..... Extremely underwhelmed and not a little disappointed. Designers made an arse of the front...

Unveiling of new AM Vantage online..... Extremely underwhelmed and not a little disappointed. Designers made an arse of the front...

All in my personal opinion, and probably possibly wouldn't stop me buying either... maybe... (yes I know both will have awesome performance)

But, and I know we shouldn't compare new cars with older pre-owned cars and what you can get for less money... but.... personally.... (as we're all fans of hand built British sports cars)... I'll just leave this thought here...

AM V12V Manual....................

Here's an example.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Unfortunately for me I'd have to sell my TVR to have a V12V, something I'm not prepared to do, at least not for the foreseeable future....

Chilli

[bullittmcqueen]

RichB said:

Just curious; current Vantage is V8, RWD, good looking etc.

Absolutely, no problem there. But Aston is too posh for my taste, i prefer a working class car

And the 1977 is VERY cool, but i wouldn't feel comfortable as it's too precious to drive around a lot.

[tvrolet]

In my case I was about to press the button on a C7 Z06, but am holding off for the new TVR...for the time being.

In truth I haven't driven the Z06 but I've driven the 'regular' C7 (rental cars) on a few US trips (and C6s before that) and clocked up some decent mileages on all sorts of roads. And frankly I love them - immensely capable cars. Yes, it's heavier than the new TVR should be...but in truth I didn't notice it much on the move. And with the Z06 having an extra 200 or so HP over the regular car I could live with that. And most of the electrickery can be switched off. I really really like the C7, and in truth - runs and hides - I think it looks better than the Griffith from virtually every angle (in yellow ) but that is, of course, subjective.

But for the time being at least I'm still holding out for something a bit lighter, RHD, British and with a TVR badge. But having sold the Tuscan in anticipation, if there's no firm information of where I am in the queue soon and the cost/spec (or the information comes out and says I'm due for delivery in 2020 or so and/or the spec or cost is different to what is anticipated) then I can see me switching to the dark side. I'm in the US in March and already thinking of extending the trip to make time to visit some dealers.

Jeez, if I had a customer who had committed to me for a product/service I couldn't provide for some time and there was a chance of them shifting their order in that period I'd be all over them like a rash. Right now TVR have a whole list of folks bright eyed and bushy tailed waiting patiently for this new car. But at some point folks will start to get fed up (like me!) and it's going to be far harder to get a replacement name on the list compared putting in a little effort to keep the existing folks happy.

...unless, of course....

We're hearing tales of the 500 deposits, but I'm only seeing 38 names on PH. Now clearly not every deposit holder will be on PH, but with its roots as a TVR forum I might have guessed say 25% of the deposit holders? What if there's no-where near 500 deposits and the business plan really needs 500 to fly? What would you do? Show off the car at car shows to drum up more interest, say there's only a few slots left, and stall everyone else? I shouldn't be speculating like this!!!! But who can blame folks thinking all sorts when there absolutely no other information out there.

[rossybee]

Much as I understand folks' angst, has anyone spoken directly to TVR with these points rather than rant on a forum?

[tvrolet]

rossybee said:

Much as I understand folks' angst, has anyone spoken directly to TVR with these points rather than rant on a forum?

Rant is maybe too string, but for sure I've expressed my grumbles.

But no, not with TVR - because apart from the name Les Edgar I don't know of anyone there anyone - and Les wouldn't know me from Adam. And maybe that's part of the problem. There is simply no proper engagement with the customers. But also, as per previous post I've gone from excitement and anticipation to apathy now...and quite simply I can't be bothered any more. And the forum is therefore a better outlet for my grumbles, with the hidden message 'anyone else like this, or am I the only miserable old sod'?