New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
cerb4.5lee said:
plfrench said:
PuffsBack said:
Did I say it sounds fantastic!
And properly loud. Very loud
Hmmm, I wonder if they've put a different exhaust on it since Burghley then? It sounded good but definitely not what I'd have called loud (in the TVR scheme of things at least And properly loud. Very loud
) when it was started up and moved there.I bet it will sound nice when you drive it though with the window down, having the exhaust so close.
So the big question for me is: how close is what we heard so far to the final sound. There could be many changes still needed/planned for emission testing. So unless we get confirmation on how close this is to the real thing, i try to get not too excited (although i often think how the relationship to neighbours would suffer if it indeed sounded like in the facebook video
)RichB said:
had good look at the car last September at Goodwood and don't recollect many of those details. What sort of touches are you thinking of?
There is something very TVR about the 3/4 side glass. Even my mate who isn't remotely into TVR's took one look at it with the rollbar behind and the seat belt mount and said 'that looks identical to your Sagaris' The roof bubbles are have a lot of T350T in them but much more subtle (and not removable of course!), I still think the grill larks back to early Chimaera's. The rear light and vent ape the Sagaris's shape, the opening behind the front wings is pure TVR as are the faired in headlights. While in photos you can see all these details you don't get a great sense of the overall proportions, especially the long bonnet. All thrown together in 3D I thought it was very much a TVRWhat did strike me, and I didn't notice to much before until I sat in it, was the rake of the windscreen - that was very un-TVR like. The base of the windscreen felt a long way away compared to my Sag (and Cerb, Griff and Chim) While the rest of the interior just felt bonkers and very TVR (love the Kill button!)
Interesting about the engine being quiet at idle - Les started it blipped the throttle and killed it so can't comment. Wish now I asked him whether that was the production exhaust.
PuffsBack said:
RichB said:
had good look at the car last September at Goodwood and don't recollect many of those details. What sort of touches are you thinking of?
There is something very TVR about the 3/4 side glass. Even my mate who isn't remotely into TVR's took one look at it with the rollbar behind and the seat belt mount and said 'that looks identical to your Sagaris' The roof bubbles are have a lot of T350T in them but much more subtle (and not removable of course!), I still think the grill larks back to early Chimaera's. The rear light and vent ape the Sagaris's shape, the opening behind the front wings is pure TVR as are the faired in headlights. While in photos you can see all these details you don't get a great sense of the overall proportions, especially the long bonnet. All thrown together in 3D I thought it was very much a TVRWhat did strike me, and I didn't notice to much before until I sat in it, was the rake of the windscreen - that was very un-TVR like. The base of the windscreen felt a long way away compared to my Sag (and Cerb, Griff and Chim) While the rest of the interior just felt bonkers and very TVR (love the Kill button!)
Interesting about the engine being quiet at idle - Les started it blipped the throttle and killed it so can't comment. Wish now I asked him whether that was the production exhaust.
Wholeheartedly agree with all of that.
Plus there are touches which bring the car very much into a ‘’Gotham~esque” era...ie bonkers rear diffuser and side exit exhausts..
Really REALLY want to see it in a pearlescent black colour...with blacked-out 3/4’s...
Okay, lots of images, some probably duplicates (but I can't be bothered to sort....)
From memory, Bullitt - spoiler not 100% agreed, either retractable or ability to set at different angles - decision to be made for optimal aerodynamics/handling.
Depending on business case, could offer detailing/wrapping as part of an optional service - same goes for ceramic brakes if enough interest - think of it like Aston works. - they'll do anything if you are willing to pay.
Things like interior bits and bobs, steering wheel, door handle, wheel design etc. still going through the process but car mostly signed off - I overheard discussions about grill e.g.there could be a different look.
Lights - chances are it's a no (but I live in hope) - a lot of the ugly stuff is down to regulations (but I will go into my thoughts a little later (AMV8 Vantage).
In real life, the griff IS better than the images and I also like the red, the driving position is good, as I mentioned before, I like the feeling of claustrophobia and didn't quite get that - but it was still a nice environment.
I'm not going to discuss the quality of the material as I think that would be unfair until a car rolls off the production line, but I would like to see carbon where there is plastic on the exterior - I know at 90k I may be asking too much but hey, talk to the deposit holders, maybe all 500 will be willing to pay another 10-20k for these touches - they can't hold you to 90k if you are offering more than you promised (remember the Jaguar XJ220 fiasco - they survived, ahem TATA!)
Yes, it has road presence and the noise is bound to add to that - from speaking with Paul Thompson, I have a feeling it's a driver's car, raw and offering great feedback, I want to feel like I've been on a roller coaster every time I drive it and a Merc, BMW, Porsche or Aston, for me, are just too comfortable and aimed at people that want a compromised vehicle - I want a race car for the road, so whether driving my kids to school or going for a Sunday drive, I want to feel like I've had a workout at the gym!
I reckon I'm going to get mine late 19 - I can wait, I just hope the wait is worth it - the problem though is if it doesn't live up to my expectations, I am going to have a dilemma - mainly because, just like the very last typewriter before the word processor came along, I want the griff to be the very last incarnation of an old skool sportscar - no warning beeps, no parking sensors, just a car with a great chassis, a brilliant engine and the only concession is reliability! If the griff can't deliver this, where will I go, I can't afford/unwilling to pay, 996 gt3rs/993 GT2/Sagaris/F40 prices...
Now the bad news.....
In my humble opinion, the AMV8 Vantage looks are far superior to the griff...
Even though the lights are a little Mazdaish, as a package, the Aston is utterly gorgeous, the interior and exterior are on a different level. I am not interested in excuses like "Well, the Aston costs x more, what do you expect?" Like I said, my opinion and I won't be changing it because there are clearly valid reasons to justify why the griff and Aston are different animals.
So Testarossa, if the Aston is soooooo wonderful, why are you getting the griff and not the Aston?
To cut a long story short, way back in 2002? I ordered an AMV8. In 2005, I understand I had the first customer car in the UK, one of 10 launch models where I could only choose exterior and interior colours (obsidian black and iron ore) - a small price to pay I thought even though I really was not interested in all those extra goodies (heated seats, proximity sensors bla bla bla). However, as much as I was in love with the way it looked, the driving experience was nothing like I was expecting - I clearly am not the target customer for AM - but I am for TVR.
I sold the V8 very quickly (made a bit of money, thank you Tom Hartley!) and bought myself a GT2 - perfect - raw, scary, looked good - nowhere near as pretty as the AMV8 or F355 or even 512tr, but it was reliable and as fast as I needed - the interior was low rent, but it didn't matter, I had a weapon and knowing that inside was enough for me - I didn't care that to the casual observer, it looked like all the other 911s, I enjoyed every mile.
I dearly wanted a Tuscan Mk1 - thought the Mk2 lost something in convertible guise and the new lights weren't to my liking - but there were too many scare stories, I am as mechanically minded as a glass of water - WHERE AM I GOING WITH THIS or am I just boasting because I have an audience of approximately ten people who will read this and now have enough ammunition to crucify me?
Back to point. If the TVR griffith isn't the pure driver's car I want it to be, I will more than likely cancel my order or if it's too late for that, drive it for a year and sell it. I will be bitterly disappointed though, because I wanted the very best manual, petrol, V8 car in the world. Despite my love for the AMV8, I doubt it will come close to the TVR for thrills and although it is gorgeous, it will never drive as good as it looks.
Thank you for your time and yes, you are right, that is 5 minutes of your life you will never get back. Oh big deal, go tell someone who gives a damn.
If anybody from TVR is reading this, thank you for the tickets, 90% of the show was rubbish, but it was worth the 5 hour round trip in traffic, £20 car park, £xxx food bill for my 10 minute chat with Paul Thompson - Paul, I'm sorry for sabotaging the dashboard, but I refer you to my earlier comment about my mechanical mindness...
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/kynbrfj9.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/uK2mEtR6" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/uK2mEtR6.jpg)
|https://thumbsnap.com/U6V1qvHN[/url]
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url]|https://thumbsnap.com/1RN5WPdc[/url]
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/cZLLVVB9[/url
]
From memory, Bullitt - spoiler not 100% agreed, either retractable or ability to set at different angles - decision to be made for optimal aerodynamics/handling.
Depending on business case, could offer detailing/wrapping as part of an optional service - same goes for ceramic brakes if enough interest - think of it like Aston works. - they'll do anything if you are willing to pay.
Things like interior bits and bobs, steering wheel, door handle, wheel design etc. still going through the process but car mostly signed off - I overheard discussions about grill e.g.there could be a different look.
Lights - chances are it's a no (but I live in hope) - a lot of the ugly stuff is down to regulations (but I will go into my thoughts a little later (AMV8 Vantage).
In real life, the griff IS better than the images and I also like the red, the driving position is good, as I mentioned before, I like the feeling of claustrophobia and didn't quite get that - but it was still a nice environment.
I'm not going to discuss the quality of the material as I think that would be unfair until a car rolls off the production line, but I would like to see carbon where there is plastic on the exterior - I know at 90k I may be asking too much but hey, talk to the deposit holders, maybe all 500 will be willing to pay another 10-20k for these touches - they can't hold you to 90k if you are offering more than you promised (remember the Jaguar XJ220 fiasco - they survived, ahem TATA!)
Yes, it has road presence and the noise is bound to add to that - from speaking with Paul Thompson, I have a feeling it's a driver's car, raw and offering great feedback, I want to feel like I've been on a roller coaster every time I drive it and a Merc, BMW, Porsche or Aston, for me, are just too comfortable and aimed at people that want a compromised vehicle - I want a race car for the road, so whether driving my kids to school or going for a Sunday drive, I want to feel like I've had a workout at the gym!
I reckon I'm going to get mine late 19 - I can wait, I just hope the wait is worth it - the problem though is if it doesn't live up to my expectations, I am going to have a dilemma - mainly because, just like the very last typewriter before the word processor came along, I want the griff to be the very last incarnation of an old skool sportscar - no warning beeps, no parking sensors, just a car with a great chassis, a brilliant engine and the only concession is reliability! If the griff can't deliver this, where will I go, I can't afford/unwilling to pay, 996 gt3rs/993 GT2/Sagaris/F40 prices...
Now the bad news.....
In my humble opinion, the AMV8 Vantage looks are far superior to the griff...
Even though the lights are a little Mazdaish, as a package, the Aston is utterly gorgeous, the interior and exterior are on a different level. I am not interested in excuses like "Well, the Aston costs x more, what do you expect?" Like I said, my opinion and I won't be changing it because there are clearly valid reasons to justify why the griff and Aston are different animals.
So Testarossa, if the Aston is soooooo wonderful, why are you getting the griff and not the Aston?
To cut a long story short, way back in 2002? I ordered an AMV8. In 2005, I understand I had the first customer car in the UK, one of 10 launch models where I could only choose exterior and interior colours (obsidian black and iron ore) - a small price to pay I thought even though I really was not interested in all those extra goodies (heated seats, proximity sensors bla bla bla). However, as much as I was in love with the way it looked, the driving experience was nothing like I was expecting - I clearly am not the target customer for AM - but I am for TVR.
I sold the V8 very quickly (made a bit of money, thank you Tom Hartley!) and bought myself a GT2 - perfect - raw, scary, looked good - nowhere near as pretty as the AMV8 or F355 or even 512tr, but it was reliable and as fast as I needed - the interior was low rent, but it didn't matter, I had a weapon and knowing that inside was enough for me - I didn't care that to the casual observer, it looked like all the other 911s, I enjoyed every mile.
I dearly wanted a Tuscan Mk1 - thought the Mk2 lost something in convertible guise and the new lights weren't to my liking - but there were too many scare stories, I am as mechanically minded as a glass of water - WHERE AM I GOING WITH THIS or am I just boasting because I have an audience of approximately ten people who will read this and now have enough ammunition to crucify me?
Back to point. If the TVR griffith isn't the pure driver's car I want it to be, I will more than likely cancel my order or if it's too late for that, drive it for a year and sell it. I will be bitterly disappointed though, because I wanted the very best manual, petrol, V8 car in the world. Despite my love for the AMV8, I doubt it will come close to the TVR for thrills and although it is gorgeous, it will never drive as good as it looks.
Thank you for your time and yes, you are right, that is 5 minutes of your life you will never get back. Oh big deal, go tell someone who gives a damn.
If anybody from TVR is reading this, thank you for the tickets, 90% of the show was rubbish, but it was worth the 5 hour round trip in traffic, £20 car park, £xxx food bill for my 10 minute chat with Paul Thompson - Paul, I'm sorry for sabotaging the dashboard, but I refer you to my earlier comment about my mechanical mindness...
|https://thumbsnap.com/U6V1qvHN[/url][url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/1RN5WPdc[/url][url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/cZLLVVB9[/url]
bullittmcqueen said:
But they did, didn't they ? There was an announcement for the London Show in the last update and you could even ask for free tickets ?
A bit late though as I had cancelled by that time.As mentioned in my post it was the Birmingham show I was making reference too not the London Show which was later.
Had mailed and specifically asked when the next showing was so I could plan a trip, no mail and no communication yet car was on show at Birmingham.
My reasoning on cancelling was the lack of communication to deposit holders, then low and behold the next showing has great communication and free tickets.
Edited by tighnamara on Sunday 20th May 22:11
Edited by tighnamara on Sunday 20th May 22:12
tighnamara said:
bullittmcqueen said:
But they did, didn't they ? There was an announcement for the London Show in the last update and you could even ask for free tickets ?
A bit late though as I had cancelled by that time.As mentioned in my post it was the Birmingham show I was making reference too not the London Show which was later.
Had mailed and specifically asked when the next showing was so I could plan a trip, no mail and no communication yet car was on show at Birmingham.
My reasoning on cancelling was the lack of communication to deposit holders, then low and behold the next showing has great communication and free tickets.
Edited by tighnamara on Sunday 20th May 22:11
Edited by tighnamara on Sunday 20th May 22:12
So what are you doing now ? Going back into the queue for a standard edition or will you wait and see ?
bullittmcqueen said:
Ah, now i get you, my bad. Yes, that was a bit unfortunate, i think i remember hearing of it only a few days before the event, too. I personally am fine with updates in 3 month intervals, but i understand your side as well as TVRs.
So what are you doing now ? Going back into the queue for a standard edition or will you wait and see ?
No problem, in hindsight I was a bit hasty and now kicking myself a bit. My loss is most likely someone’s gain. So what are you doing now ? Going back into the queue for a standard edition or will you wait and see ?
Not sure about going back in as I would be way down the line now and was wanting the LE.
Still hankering over a 993 or E30 M3 but all totally different beasts.
@Testarossa:
thanks man, great post (read it twice, so you owe me 10 minutes
)
Also thx for the info on the wing. After having read that, i'll bet 5 quid that it will not be retractable, simply because i'd so much prefer it to be. A fixed wing will be so much less hazzle and i was wondering how they would make it workable from the first time i've seen it. So that's that.
You're spot on with your typewriter comment. That's what i'm in for, too. Doesn't have to be the best though, i'm fine with it being one of the last and sufficiently raw. And i'm confident they will deliver on that. Les has shown that philosophy on every occasion.
Pics are really cool, some new angles. I particularly like how it looks in this one: great proportions, long bonnet and good impression of the height.
The one thing i'm not in line with you, is, that the Aston looks better. While it does look a lot more refined and professionally designed and way more "detaily" than the Griff, it doesn't get me at all. But i know what you mean, and i see the difference when looking at them. Comparing them directly makes the Griff look a bit "plain". It looks less modern and contemporary (and some will say it already looks outdated), but in my book that raises the chances of it eventually becoming a classic. Time (and sound and performance and handling) will tell.
thanks man, great post (read it twice, so you owe me 10 minutes
)Also thx for the info on the wing. After having read that, i'll bet 5 quid that it will not be retractable, simply because i'd so much prefer it to be. A fixed wing will be so much less hazzle and i was wondering how they would make it workable from the first time i've seen it. So that's that.
You're spot on with your typewriter comment. That's what i'm in for, too. Doesn't have to be the best though, i'm fine with it being one of the last and sufficiently raw. And i'm confident they will deliver on that. Les has shown that philosophy on every occasion.
Pics are really cool, some new angles. I particularly like how it looks in this one: great proportions, long bonnet and good impression of the height.
The one thing i'm not in line with you, is, that the Aston looks better. While it does look a lot more refined and professionally designed and way more "detaily" than the Griff, it doesn't get me at all. But i know what you mean, and i see the difference when looking at them. Comparing them directly makes the Griff look a bit "plain". It looks less modern and contemporary (and some will say it already looks outdated), but in my book that raises the chances of it eventually becoming a classic. Time (and sound and performance and handling) will tell.
tighnamara said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Ah, now i get you, my bad. Yes, that was a bit unfortunate, i think i remember hearing of it only a few days before the event, too. I personally am fine with updates in 3 month intervals, but i understand your side as well as TVRs.
So what are you doing now ? Going back into the queue for a standard edition or will you wait and see ?
No problem, in hindsight I was a bit hasty and now kicking myself a bit. My loss is most likely someone’s gain. So what are you doing now ? Going back into the queue for a standard edition or will you wait and see ?
Not sure about going back in as I would be way down the line now and was wanting the LE.
Still hankering over a 993 or E30 M3 but all totally different beasts.
You've been throwing away a free option, but that cannot be cured. I'd jump right back into the queue and put down a deposit for a later edition for the following reasons:
- it still is a free option, just a lesser one and you can still return it (ok, returning 2 deposits might raise some eyebrows, but a) by that time you'll have plenty of information at hands to make an informed decision and b) if you return it then, you'll be sure of it and c) you might pass it on to someone else, maybe for profit or just to avoid cancellation)
- there's talk of turbos, other models and whatnot, so the later editions might/will come cheaper and/or might be even more badass
- slight chance of still getting a launch edition
- putting down the deposit in two years will put you at the end of a (hopefully even longer) queue in two years, potentially increasing wait times.
- guess it's no problem to jump backwards in the queue, if you should decide wait a little longer
So, no risk with potential upside. That's a must-do trade in my book.
(As i said, my point of view and only valid, if the terms for the deposits still apply, so check fineprint).
Interestingly I walked around the exhibition with a completely unbiased person. A car ‘addict’...even more of a petrolhead than I....
Feedback was...
Griffith by FAR the best car there.
Better proportions
Better driving position
Superior ‘presence’
Same person did not like the Aston ..and thought looked dated..odd...with an awful interior..and most likely designed by a man in their early 20’s.
That same person also strongly disliked all the matt grey Mustangs / Raptors / teen-boy-machines that were surrounded by black models with surgically enhanced (dis)proportions.. ‘just no’..!!!
It was an enlightening experience..
We both agreed we’d take a Urus though...
Feedback was...
Griffith by FAR the best car there.
Better proportions
Better driving position
Superior ‘presence’
Same person did not like the Aston ..and thought looked dated..odd...with an awful interior..and most likely designed by a man in their early 20’s.
That same person also strongly disliked all the matt grey Mustangs / Raptors / teen-boy-machines that were surrounded by black models with surgically enhanced (dis)proportions.. ‘just no’..!!!
It was an enlightening experience..
We both agreed we’d take a Urus though...
Can I have some of what you're on please? Or a ticket to your parallel universe where everything is back to front?
Just think. If you were to buy an AM now, for at least a good 2 years and probably nearer 3, you could be havin' the time of yer life. At least I know for the next 3 years I'll look forward to reading your endlessly optimistic and entertaining posts.
Just think. If you were to buy an AM now, for at least a good 2 years and probably nearer 3, you could be havin' the time of yer life. At least I know for the next 3 years I'll look forward to reading your endlessly optimistic and entertaining posts.
N7GTX said:
Can I have some of what you're on please? Or a ticket to your parallel universe where everything is back to front?
Just think. If you were to buy an AM now, for at least a good 2 years and probably nearer 3, you could be havin' the time of yer life. At least I know for the next 3 years I'll look forward to reading your endlessly optimistic and entertaining posts.
Always been a glass half full kinda guy..Just think. If you were to buy an AM now, for at least a good 2 years and probably nearer 3, you could be havin' the time of yer life. At least I know for the next 3 years I'll look forward to reading your endlessly optimistic and entertaining posts.
I don’t expect mine before the start of 2020..and made it clear when I put the deposit down that I don’t want it before then.
If I’d wanted the AM I woulda bought one now...but they’re just not what I want...
OK, I flew down to the show with Mrs T and made a weekend of it in London, and as per a previous post I thought it might be a make or break decision…but I suspected I’d end up somewhere in between – and so it was; but no fault of the car.
Let the essay begin, and let’s start with looks, as that’s where a lot of the focus seems to be.
The mock-up model at the initial reveal had a weird asymmetric hump on the roof that to me just grated and upset the lines; but not only has it gone but the roof now sports a couple of ‘folds’ that give some real coherence to the ‘folds’ down the bonnet. I really liked the styling on the bonnet and over the roof – very nice indeed.
The front end, and in particular the toothless smiley grin and running eye-liner under the lights has come in for a lot of criticism – and I’ve been one of the critics. But actually, in the flesh it’s OK – I’m not saying perfect, but I could easily live with it. Now I tried to analyse how come it looked OK in the flesh but not so great in the pictures and to me it’s all down to viewing heights. At eye-level of a typical human, up to a reasonable distance away it looks fine. But the unflattering pictures all seem to have been taken from a position of about 2 feet above the ground. I’m not sure why photographers always seem to choose the perspective of a kneeling dwarf, but from a higher vantage point it’s OK, and more importantly that vantage point shows off the side and roof contours far better.
So, on one hand I don’t think it’s as perfect from all angles as say a pre-impact-bumper 911, or a 308 (all subjective I know), but with the rest of the car looking very very good indeed I guess I can handle the snail’s eye view of the front. But I then took a wander around the rest of the (not very big) show and I felt every other new car also had at least one (and maybe more!) bad angle. Maybe it’s down to regulations; maybe it’s design by committee; maybe it’s trying to include too many cues form different inputs a la Homer’s car; maybe the good stuff has all been done before and folks don’t want to plagiarise …but whatever, the TVR has one questionable design element (in my view) in an otherwise very good design, whereas everything else had far more questionable elements in far worse designs. In comparative terms at least then, it’s a an astonishingly good looking car; and in absolute terms it’s still very good.
I managed to sit in it and was very impressed with the driving position. Floor mounted pedals – glorious! My feet hinge at the ankle-end, not the toe-end and it all felt just like the Tilton pedal box I put in the Tuscan. On that vein, when I built the Tuscan I spent ages deciding where to put the seat, where to put the pedals (and even how to space them!), where to put the gear lever and where to put the steering. And that car fitted me like no other – like a glove being the regular expression. Every time I got in it, it just felt so right no matter what I’d been in before or how long I’d not sat in it for. And as someone who drives a rental car of some sort or other virtually every week I can confirm nothing else fitted quite as well. But for me at least, the position in the Griff was spot-on (except the steering was a bit high – but I’m hoping adjustable).
And my final observation was one of quality. Especially under the bonnet it was clear that corners had not been cut. On TVRs of old finding Heath-Robinson solutions was like shooting fish in a barrel. But this time it seems we have the right component made from the right material in the right place without compromise. There’s a lot of very good (and expensive) kit under the bonnet; I have to hope it reaches production.
In truth then, I’m very happy with the car (as is the Mrs…thankfully). All good then?
Hmmm. I did get a chance to speak to Les, and probably came across as a babbling nerd what with pressure of time on the stand etc., and one of the things he said was ‘are you excited about the car?’…in a very enthusiastic tone. And I felt rather guilty when my response was not a gleeful ‘why yes, I’m just about wetting myself with excitement’, but rather a more muted. The point is LE and the team are living and breathing this stuff day-in and day-out and it’s easy to keep up the enthusiasm in that environment. But it’s actually very difficult to keep up levels of enthusiasm over 3 years when there’s little or no engagement/inclusion and no firm end in sight. Yes, there are high points – like seeing and sitting in the car; but also low points where months go by with no information. I can see the point-of-view that says if there’s no information to give, then there’s no information. But something – anything – could be drip-fed to the deposit holders to keep spirits up.
Now I don’t expect the deposit holders to be treated like Lord and Lady Muck, but these are folks who have shown a great commitment to the car/brand. Sure, not as much cash handed over as the investors, but still it’s a commitment to buy and purchase something that for most folks is second only in value to a house. These are the folks who will be the best evangelists for the car; these will be the ‘salespeople’ when parked-up at filling stations, on track days in foreign lands waking up the natives. These are the folks who will encourage others down the line to engage with TVR. I think TVR are really undervaluing what these committed deposit holders can do for the brand by not engaging properly them; but maybe others feel differently.
But I really did like the car.
Let the essay begin, and let’s start with looks, as that’s where a lot of the focus seems to be.
The mock-up model at the initial reveal had a weird asymmetric hump on the roof that to me just grated and upset the lines; but not only has it gone but the roof now sports a couple of ‘folds’ that give some real coherence to the ‘folds’ down the bonnet. I really liked the styling on the bonnet and over the roof – very nice indeed.
The front end, and in particular the toothless smiley grin and running eye-liner under the lights has come in for a lot of criticism – and I’ve been one of the critics. But actually, in the flesh it’s OK – I’m not saying perfect, but I could easily live with it. Now I tried to analyse how come it looked OK in the flesh but not so great in the pictures and to me it’s all down to viewing heights. At eye-level of a typical human, up to a reasonable distance away it looks fine. But the unflattering pictures all seem to have been taken from a position of about 2 feet above the ground. I’m not sure why photographers always seem to choose the perspective of a kneeling dwarf, but from a higher vantage point it’s OK, and more importantly that vantage point shows off the side and roof contours far better.
So, on one hand I don’t think it’s as perfect from all angles as say a pre-impact-bumper 911, or a 308 (all subjective I know), but with the rest of the car looking very very good indeed I guess I can handle the snail’s eye view of the front. But I then took a wander around the rest of the (not very big) show and I felt every other new car also had at least one (and maybe more!) bad angle. Maybe it’s down to regulations; maybe it’s design by committee; maybe it’s trying to include too many cues form different inputs a la Homer’s car; maybe the good stuff has all been done before and folks don’t want to plagiarise …but whatever, the TVR has one questionable design element (in my view) in an otherwise very good design, whereas everything else had far more questionable elements in far worse designs. In comparative terms at least then, it’s a an astonishingly good looking car; and in absolute terms it’s still very good.
I managed to sit in it and was very impressed with the driving position. Floor mounted pedals – glorious! My feet hinge at the ankle-end, not the toe-end and it all felt just like the Tilton pedal box I put in the Tuscan. On that vein, when I built the Tuscan I spent ages deciding where to put the seat, where to put the pedals (and even how to space them!), where to put the gear lever and where to put the steering. And that car fitted me like no other – like a glove being the regular expression. Every time I got in it, it just felt so right no matter what I’d been in before or how long I’d not sat in it for. And as someone who drives a rental car of some sort or other virtually every week I can confirm nothing else fitted quite as well. But for me at least, the position in the Griff was spot-on (except the steering was a bit high – but I’m hoping adjustable).
And my final observation was one of quality. Especially under the bonnet it was clear that corners had not been cut. On TVRs of old finding Heath-Robinson solutions was like shooting fish in a barrel. But this time it seems we have the right component made from the right material in the right place without compromise. There’s a lot of very good (and expensive) kit under the bonnet; I have to hope it reaches production.
In truth then, I’m very happy with the car (as is the Mrs…thankfully). All good then?
Hmmm. I did get a chance to speak to Les, and probably came across as a babbling nerd what with pressure of time on the stand etc., and one of the things he said was ‘are you excited about the car?’…in a very enthusiastic tone. And I felt rather guilty when my response was not a gleeful ‘why yes, I’m just about wetting myself with excitement’, but rather a more muted. The point is LE and the team are living and breathing this stuff day-in and day-out and it’s easy to keep up the enthusiasm in that environment. But it’s actually very difficult to keep up levels of enthusiasm over 3 years when there’s little or no engagement/inclusion and no firm end in sight. Yes, there are high points – like seeing and sitting in the car; but also low points where months go by with no information. I can see the point-of-view that says if there’s no information to give, then there’s no information. But something – anything – could be drip-fed to the deposit holders to keep spirits up.
Now I don’t expect the deposit holders to be treated like Lord and Lady Muck, but these are folks who have shown a great commitment to the car/brand. Sure, not as much cash handed over as the investors, but still it’s a commitment to buy and purchase something that for most folks is second only in value to a house. These are the folks who will be the best evangelists for the car; these will be the ‘salespeople’ when parked-up at filling stations, on track days in foreign lands waking up the natives. These are the folks who will encourage others down the line to engage with TVR. I think TVR are really undervaluing what these committed deposit holders can do for the brand by not engaging properly them; but maybe others feel differently.
But I really did like the car.
bullittmcqueen said:
Just my 2 cents:
You've been throwing away a free option, but that cannot be cured. I'd jump right back into the queue and put down a deposit for a later edition for the following reasons:
- it still is a free option, just a lesser one and you can still return it (ok, returning 2 deposits might raise some eyebrows, but a) by that time you'll have plenty of information at hands to make an informed decision and b) if you return it then, you'll be sure of it and c) you might pass it on to someone else, maybe for profit or just to avoid cancellation)
- there's talk of turbos, other models and whatnot, so the later editions might/will come cheaper and/or might be even more badass
- slight chance of still getting a launch edition
- putting down the deposit in two years will put you at the end of a (hopefully even longer) queue in two years, potentially increasing wait times.
- guess it's no problem to jump backwards in the queue, if you should decide wait a little longer
So, no risk with potential upside. That's a must-do trade in my book.
(As i said, my point of view and only valid, if the terms for the deposits still apply, so check fineprint).
Appreciate your thoughts, will be thinking hard over the next week. You've been throwing away a free option, but that cannot be cured. I'd jump right back into the queue and put down a deposit for a later edition for the following reasons:
- it still is a free option, just a lesser one and you can still return it (ok, returning 2 deposits might raise some eyebrows, but a) by that time you'll have plenty of information at hands to make an informed decision and b) if you return it then, you'll be sure of it and c) you might pass it on to someone else, maybe for profit or just to avoid cancellation)
- there's talk of turbos, other models and whatnot, so the later editions might/will come cheaper and/or might be even more badass
- slight chance of still getting a launch edition
- putting down the deposit in two years will put you at the end of a (hopefully even longer) queue in two years, potentially increasing wait times.
- guess it's no problem to jump backwards in the queue, if you should decide wait a little longer
So, no risk with potential upside. That's a must-do trade in my book.
(As i said, my point of view and only valid, if the terms for the deposits still apply, so check fineprint).
FlipFlopGriff said:
Its not that big, maybe a reasonable size holdall but thats it. I'd say 1/2 the size of the 90's Griff boot space.
You could put stuff behind the seats if you have triangular shaped luggage, or best go for squashable bags, but your visibility will be impaired.
FFG
there is some depth below the current floor of the boot, which may be utilised. I had a chat about that.. not full width, as this car has a deformable crumple zone. unlike my Griff's boot , bit of GRP, air then fuel tank. !!You could put stuff behind the seats if you have triangular shaped luggage, or best go for squashable bags, but your visibility will be impaired.
FFG
Was only open for a very short time Barry so just got a quick look. They lifted the flap with Griffith on it and revealed the space- was about 2/3 width and about 12" deep by say 18" tall. Be even less when the convertible comes along!! I asked about one but was told there was no work completed. Current LE orders will be delivered end 2019 and through 2020.
Was good quality interior feel and fittings although I was only in the passenger seat and Andrea was in the drivers seat.
Looks good in the flesh and close up although still not sure on the front opening shape and why they don't want to put a number plate on it, and that aero flap is always up.
Andrea in sales mode probably sold 2 while we were there.
FFG
Was good quality interior feel and fittings although I was only in the passenger seat and Andrea was in the drivers seat.
Looks good in the flesh and close up although still not sure on the front opening shape and why they don't want to put a number plate on it, and that aero flap is always up.
Andrea in sales mode probably sold 2 while we were there.
FFG
I thought those compartments were for helmets!
When it comes to communication, they are between a rock and a hard place if you ask me.
When everything they say gets scrutinised and may come back to haunt them, they have to be as choosy with their words as an FD for Carillion.
Businesses, good, bad, poorly run, well managed, failing or successful - all have one thing in common - s
t hits the fan almost every day - the art of business is managing those events.
If they employ somebody to filter, we would read something into it, if they told us the truth, we would run for the hills, if they said nothing, all we can do is speculate but mostly, we will keep the faith.
Imagine if (and this is made up by the way) Cosworth have said guys, we can get 550 bhp, but the engine will go kaput and will need rebuilding after 50k miles or we can give you 500 bhp and you are looking at 200k before major work depending on this type of driving style. However, if you did want 550 bhp and in the maintenance schedule we included this £2k check and repair every 25k miles - well you could see well over 500k from every engine - in that scenario, what exactly should they be telling us?
What if the doorbell rings and it's AVON tyres calling (waits for groan from the older generation) to say that they are considering a pre-pack administration and unless they get an advance for the tyres, they cannot supply them - should the depositors be told before the car has even been signed off?
What if Gordon Murray Design argues the IP of the chassis lies with them rather than TVR - would telling us worry us?
Les's (TVR) job is to be confident, cool and above all enthusiastic about the saviour of TVR.
Saying all the above, yes I do miss the updates, but I also think TVR are not treating us like idiots and will let us know when milestones are reached rather than furnishing us with blogs, filtered or not.
I'm not defending TVR by the way, just trying to appreciate that TVR will only work if business people are running it rather than rich enthusiasts.
When it comes to communication, they are between a rock and a hard place if you ask me.
When everything they say gets scrutinised and may come back to haunt them, they have to be as choosy with their words as an FD for Carillion.
Businesses, good, bad, poorly run, well managed, failing or successful - all have one thing in common - s
t hits the fan almost every day - the art of business is managing those events.If they employ somebody to filter, we would read something into it, if they told us the truth, we would run for the hills, if they said nothing, all we can do is speculate but mostly, we will keep the faith.
Imagine if (and this is made up by the way) Cosworth have said guys, we can get 550 bhp, but the engine will go kaput and will need rebuilding after 50k miles or we can give you 500 bhp and you are looking at 200k before major work depending on this type of driving style. However, if you did want 550 bhp and in the maintenance schedule we included this £2k check and repair every 25k miles - well you could see well over 500k from every engine - in that scenario, what exactly should they be telling us?
What if the doorbell rings and it's AVON tyres calling (waits for groan from the older generation) to say that they are considering a pre-pack administration and unless they get an advance for the tyres, they cannot supply them - should the depositors be told before the car has even been signed off?
What if Gordon Murray Design argues the IP of the chassis lies with them rather than TVR - would telling us worry us?
Les's (TVR) job is to be confident, cool and above all enthusiastic about the saviour of TVR.
Saying all the above, yes I do miss the updates, but I also think TVR are not treating us like idiots and will let us know when milestones are reached rather than furnishing us with blogs, filtered or not.
I'm not defending TVR by the way, just trying to appreciate that TVR will only work if business people are running it rather than rich enthusiasts.
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