New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
m4tti said:
BJWoods said:
The whole point of new TVR is I Stream manufacturing process will make it much more viable... Vs whatever Lotus do.
If iStream was that portable they would have produced more than one car... either that or the funds aren’t there...m4tti said:
BJWoods said:
The whole point of new TVR is I Stream manufacturing process will make it much more viable... Vs whatever Lotus do.
If iStream was that portable they would have produced more than one car... either that or the funds aren’t there...BJWoods said:
m4tti said:
BJWoods said:
The whole point of new TVR is I Stream manufacturing process will make it much more viable... Vs whatever Lotus do.
If iStream was that portable they would have produced more than one car... either that or the funds aren’t there...Mark-C said:
m4tti said:
Les has stated “they’re still testing with the mules at dunsfold”... do you think Porsche have one prototype of a 90k car to put through various tests.
Mules is plural ... so that’s got to be a good thing ...m4tti said:
Mark-C said:
m4tti said:
Les has stated “they’re still testing with the mules at dunsfold”... do you think Porsche have one prototype of a 90k car to put through various tests.
Mules is plural ... so that’s got to be a good thing ...N7GTX said:
This is taken from the 'A Lot of Saggys for sale' thread. I hope GB8CH doesn't mind as I agree with hs comments particularly the 3rd paragraph.
GB8CH
4 posts
17 months
Yesterday (18:49)
bobfather said:
I don't see how the new Griffith would be causing this as they are entirely different animals. The Sag is the ultimate expression of the mad TVR marque. the new Griffith is pure function, a fine car I'm sure, but it's not borne out of TVR heritage, it's borne out of modern engineering. The sag was full of aesthetic design features which had now function. As Les says 'every hole and every curve is there purely for function'. I don't see how someone who loves form over function would sell it to buy function over form.
I have to disagree with you on your remarks about the Sagaris having features with no function. If you are talking about the wheel arch air-pressure vents being filled in on the production car, this was a result of cost saving by the Russian. A filtering/ducting system was production ready prior to the cars launch and I personally drove a prototype fitted with this system in torrential rain with none of the 'spray and stones on the windscreen' later claimed. The decision to compromise the design by filling them in was the main reason I resigned.
The truth is that the car was designed to incorporate all aerodynamic aids and this is the main reason for the cars still distinctive form. It was originally intended to be a replacement for the Tuscan Challenge car and not a road car at all, so focus was very much on function however, unusually, the functional stuff was baked in by a stylist, rather than by a race engineer in a rush later on. In fact, I would struggle to point out a single sculptural element of the car that doesn't have a valid aerodynamic or functional reason for being there and I was the Chief Designer of it. It was also tested in the wind tunnel at MIRA and benefited from the advice of the engineering team responsible for the TVR race team of the day, who built the Le Mans cars.
I get the impression that the new car is lacking in most of the ingredients that made the original cars so special. The supposed aerodynamic prowess of the new car seems to be assured by mere mention of GM and a diffuser. His career since the F1 doesn't fill me with the same level of confidence personally. If you get an engineer to design a horse, you get a camel. It's not very well styled, the front end especially and it is simply too dull. I can't imagine any school kids with a poster of it on the bedroom wall. And that was what it needed to do to re-launch the brand imho. Get people excited.
I don't mind at all, I hope it helped to prompt the current management to keep their loyal deposit holders more informed. And more importantly, take the hint with the styling before it's too late.GB8CH
4 posts
17 months
Yesterday (18:49)
bobfather said:
I don't see how the new Griffith would be causing this as they are entirely different animals. The Sag is the ultimate expression of the mad TVR marque. the new Griffith is pure function, a fine car I'm sure, but it's not borne out of TVR heritage, it's borne out of modern engineering. The sag was full of aesthetic design features which had now function. As Les says 'every hole and every curve is there purely for function'. I don't see how someone who loves form over function would sell it to buy function over form.
I have to disagree with you on your remarks about the Sagaris having features with no function. If you are talking about the wheel arch air-pressure vents being filled in on the production car, this was a result of cost saving by the Russian. A filtering/ducting system was production ready prior to the cars launch and I personally drove a prototype fitted with this system in torrential rain with none of the 'spray and stones on the windscreen' later claimed. The decision to compromise the design by filling them in was the main reason I resigned.
The truth is that the car was designed to incorporate all aerodynamic aids and this is the main reason for the cars still distinctive form. It was originally intended to be a replacement for the Tuscan Challenge car and not a road car at all, so focus was very much on function however, unusually, the functional stuff was baked in by a stylist, rather than by a race engineer in a rush later on. In fact, I would struggle to point out a single sculptural element of the car that doesn't have a valid aerodynamic or functional reason for being there and I was the Chief Designer of it. It was also tested in the wind tunnel at MIRA and benefited from the advice of the engineering team responsible for the TVR race team of the day, who built the Le Mans cars.
I get the impression that the new car is lacking in most of the ingredients that made the original cars so special. The supposed aerodynamic prowess of the new car seems to be assured by mere mention of GM and a diffuser. His career since the F1 doesn't fill me with the same level of confidence personally. If you get an engineer to design a horse, you get a camel. It's not very well styled, the front end especially and it is simply too dull. I can't imagine any school kids with a poster of it on the bedroom wall. And that was what it needed to do to re-launch the brand imho. Get people excited.
RichB said:
m4tti said:
Mark-C said:
m4tti said:
Les has stated “they’re still testing with the mules at dunsfold”... do you think Porsche have one prototype of a 90k car to put through various tests.
Mules is plural ... so that’s got to be a good thing ...(that's how I read it)
Testarossa said:
RichB said:
m4tti said:
Mark-C said:
m4tti said:
Les has stated “they’re still testing with the mules at dunsfold”... do you think Porsche have one prototype of a 90k car to put through various tests.
Mules is plural ... so that’s got to be a good thing ...(that's how I read it)
Have you got the bong up to temperature?
Edited by m4tti on Friday 17th August 06:11
BJWoods said:
Better Angle of the New Griff at Beaulieu taking part in the Supercar Runs - lots of other TVRs aswell
(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
I'm obviously biased,but I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not laugh out loud when the two cerbs had a go. They eclipsed everything for noise and drama. They made all the exotic stuff look boring including the new griff. Just the right combination of serious and stupid of an age now lost.(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
If the new griff didn't have to compare itself to its ancestry I'm sure it would be a good car in its own right, and even thought of as pretty. But if you put it at an event shared with other TVRs it definitely suffers, and not just from the Cerb.
Not too late les.
julian64 said:
BJWoods said:
Better Angle of the New Griff at Beaulieu taking part in the Supercar Runs - lots of other TVRs aswell
(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
I'm obviously biased,but I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not laugh out loud when the two cerbs had a go. They eclipsed everything for noise and drama. They made all the exotic stuff look boring including the new griff. Just the right combination of serious and stupid of an age now lost.(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
If the new Griff didn't have to compare itself to its ancestry I'm sure it would be a good car in its own right, and even thought of as pretty. But if you put it at an event shared with other TVRs it definitely suffers, and not just from the Cerb.
Not too late Les.
I’m amazed nobody has mentioned the Silverstone video and how the Pro driver couldn’t get it from second to third gear on more than one occasion, might not be used to the box maybe but something’s amiss there or I’ve mis heard, the driver even looks at the lever( for some reason)
The cars been built sometime so what’s going on there?
Also Les or someone reads this thread, that email is through pressure on here just as it was when I doubted the Welsh connection and found the Google maps image suggested Purple paint on gutters etc when clearly it’s dull blue,,, very strange but true. It caused quite a fuss and days later one of his rambling emails appeared. Coincidence I’m sure ,,,, not !
Now as deposit holders dared to show the disappointment of not being informed or updated on progress he eventually comes out with the latest email that to me says nothing much and clarifies very little other than a few rather obvious details.
The rear wing, is it permanently in the up position as it can’t dissapear into the bodywork as there’s no mechanism or place for it to go from what I can tell. Still to be engineered but happy to be corrected if I’ve missed something. The boot line is solid so it looks like it’s fixed.
The flat floor, makes no real difference to handling at road speeds so what’s the point of it.
Especially over rough bumpy roads other than say on a trackday at very high speed as where else will you get to enjoy the ground effect. I used to be an optimist but life’s turned me over, trust no self made business men so sorry if I sound down on this car but the lack of regular updates or even answering deposit holders concerns reminds me of the old days,,, least the cars looked beautiful back then. Poor show indeed. Such a shame and disappointing for all Tvr fans. The front grill shape is like a Ford Mondeo and that’s that. Maybe that’s the only way he can get the engine off Mr Ford,, who knows but someone clever with computers put a Mondeo or Fiesta nose up against this new car and it’s a very similar shape, coincidence,,, no way! A Tvr with a production car front end, how disappointing.
You guys who can afford a 100k car surely you want better than that. Lobby the company, get together do something about it ( if you can ) but for Tvr lovers the world over its fugly as hell and that’s been pointed time and again. There’s no bloody money is there!
If I rile the bloke or anyone on here to get action I’m glad, I’m sure I’ll just get slagged off by the blind believers but the shape of this car is just bog standard and ugly. Even if I had 100k hanging out my back pocket I’d not look at this car, it sounds naff by the way and I agree the Cerbs blew the thing off in one easy noise filled video. RIP Peter Wheeler
The cars been built sometime so what’s going on there?
Also Les or someone reads this thread, that email is through pressure on here just as it was when I doubted the Welsh connection and found the Google maps image suggested Purple paint on gutters etc when clearly it’s dull blue,,, very strange but true. It caused quite a fuss and days later one of his rambling emails appeared. Coincidence I’m sure ,,,, not !
Now as deposit holders dared to show the disappointment of not being informed or updated on progress he eventually comes out with the latest email that to me says nothing much and clarifies very little other than a few rather obvious details.
The rear wing, is it permanently in the up position as it can’t dissapear into the bodywork as there’s no mechanism or place for it to go from what I can tell. Still to be engineered but happy to be corrected if I’ve missed something. The boot line is solid so it looks like it’s fixed.
The flat floor, makes no real difference to handling at road speeds so what’s the point of it.
Especially over rough bumpy roads other than say on a trackday at very high speed as where else will you get to enjoy the ground effect. I used to be an optimist but life’s turned me over, trust no self made business men so sorry if I sound down on this car but the lack of regular updates or even answering deposit holders concerns reminds me of the old days,,, least the cars looked beautiful back then. Poor show indeed. Such a shame and disappointing for all Tvr fans. The front grill shape is like a Ford Mondeo and that’s that. Maybe that’s the only way he can get the engine off Mr Ford,, who knows but someone clever with computers put a Mondeo or Fiesta nose up against this new car and it’s a very similar shape, coincidence,,, no way! A Tvr with a production car front end, how disappointing.
You guys who can afford a 100k car surely you want better than that. Lobby the company, get together do something about it ( if you can ) but for Tvr lovers the world over its fugly as hell and that’s been pointed time and again. There’s no bloody money is there!
If I rile the bloke or anyone on here to get action I’m glad, I’m sure I’ll just get slagged off by the blind believers but the shape of this car is just bog standard and ugly. Even if I had 100k hanging out my back pocket I’d not look at this car, it sounds naff by the way and I agree the Cerbs blew the thing off in one easy noise filled video. RIP Peter Wheeler
Edited by Classic Chim on Saturday 18th August 07:25
there is a dip for the spoiler to go into but no mechanism yet - they were considering whether it should be a fixed rear wing - if so, they will probably fill the recess in.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am willing to give TVR a chance - yes around this mark (currently) I think as new cars go, the f type and 911 are better looking - even the corvette looks good! So they have missed the mark.
What they have done is put all their eggs in one basket and once the griff is ready and driven, they will either succeed or have a catastrophic failure because the looks won't be able to save it from oblivion.
I want it to drive how I expect it to, they have already let me down once, they let me down again - I think I'll buy a G-Wiz and give up on driving.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am willing to give TVR a chance - yes around this mark (currently) I think as new cars go, the f type and 911 are better looking - even the corvette looks good! So they have missed the mark.
What they have done is put all their eggs in one basket and once the griff is ready and driven, they will either succeed or have a catastrophic failure because the looks won't be able to save it from oblivion.
I want it to drive how I expect it to, they have already let me down once, they let me down again - I think I'll buy a G-Wiz and give up on driving.
The grill looks like an upside down Mondeo's because the Mondeo's is meant to look like an Aston Martin grill. Peter Wheeler loved Astons so the original design of the Chimaera has a Aston shaped grill. However for fear of being sued by Aston TVR inverted the grill - so now the Griff has a grill that purposely harks back to the Chimaera - and therefore looks like a Mondeo
And therefore indirectly Peter Wheeler is partly responsible for the stupid fish face of the new car!
And therefore indirectly Peter Wheeler is partly responsible for the stupid fish face of the new car!
Edited by PuffsBack on Saturday 18th August 01:06
I mean, the comments above about the ground effect being useless at normal road speeds... isn’t that true for a lot of performance car functionality? When manufacturers claim their new car generates 500Kg of Downforce at 120mph.. well that’s useless at normal road speeds too isn’t it?
People still buy into the fact that these performance cars are designed and engineered to perform at a certain level when driven at 9/10ths, even if they’re only going to be driven up to 6/10ths most of the time..
Correct me if I’m wrong but this mantra isn’t a completely new thing for TVR is it? ‘Ground effect’ might be a new endeavour, but the latter cars of the last generation (Sagaris etc) were designed with some actual thought to their aero and whatnot, a comment a page or 2 back explained that the Sagaris took lessons learned from the Tuscan race cars or something along those lines??
Fair enough, this new car might follow a very different philosophy to the last car to wear the Griffith badge, but from what I can gather, it’s not like TVR were strangers to aerodynamic function and other ‘modern’ technologies in the latter years...
Honestly, it sounds like some people would be happier if they just bought a new Mustang 5.0 if they just want an affordable, basic, V8 bruiser..
People still buy into the fact that these performance cars are designed and engineered to perform at a certain level when driven at 9/10ths, even if they’re only going to be driven up to 6/10ths most of the time..
Correct me if I’m wrong but this mantra isn’t a completely new thing for TVR is it? ‘Ground effect’ might be a new endeavour, but the latter cars of the last generation (Sagaris etc) were designed with some actual thought to their aero and whatnot, a comment a page or 2 back explained that the Sagaris took lessons learned from the Tuscan race cars or something along those lines??
Fair enough, this new car might follow a very different philosophy to the last car to wear the Griffith badge, but from what I can gather, it’s not like TVR were strangers to aerodynamic function and other ‘modern’ technologies in the latter years...
Honestly, it sounds like some people would be happier if they just bought a new Mustang 5.0 if they just want an affordable, basic, V8 bruiser..
I’m very passionate, thanks,,, but it’s a curse 
I like any other passionate Tvr owner want this to succeed in whatever shape or form and i was impressed with Les in the Silverstone video in so much as Les looked deeply proud and it’s obvious he really is a fan of Tvr and like a normal bloke would be, the human side was clearly there to see and I admire him for all he’s trying to do. For months and now years I like many thousands of Tvr supporters regularly come on here in hope of some news.
Just sharing a few technical details or even things that are causing headaches that are taking time to resolve or just how this or that have been engineered would keep the fires burning but silence for such long periods then ( might be coincidence ) as I don’t have a crystal ball but seemingly only after people are starting to openly dispute this car does an email appear.
I’m possibly miles off reality and it must be very difficult to build and bring any car to market in this fractured day and age but so little information just looks like somethings very wrong or they just don’t care what people including deposit holders are thinking.
You take on a name that many thousands of people are proud of regardless of your 500 deposit holders, you need to keep a conversation going as every time I buy something off Tvr Parts for my old Tvr I consider it as support for this new company so we old owners are making a choice to support this venture by doing so.
Ok it amounts to pennies but support is support.
I was a publicist for my own band many years ago, I was very young but we built up a reputation that took10 years to achieve though graft and hundreds of gigs, support from fans and followers of Tvr in general are a valuable source of free advertising because ( with a funky grill shape ) we’d be banging on about it to anybody in ear shot rather than just a couple of very passionate people on here ( which I also admire )
Ignoring your core fan base regardless of if they are signed upto this car as frankly not many can afford 100k in a dept ridden U.K. is an own goal in my book.
I’m sure there are many good reasons for keeping quiet until things can be solidified and in such a terrible period for our country politically I’m not suprised if he can’t get investors on board, did the email suggest foreign investment as who in Britain has such funds!
The darn thing will be built in some eastern block country if you don’t watch out,
Am I trolling!!!
Yeah I’m passionate and very respectful even 20 years later of the fan base my friends and I created out of thin air as kids for our band so just feel we are his best investors, once he has financial investors that is,,,
Maybe Les understands this so giving false hope or promises the company can’t keep just yet is maybe wise but the average Tvr owner probably owns his own business etc so understands much of this stuff.
I think I’m just very disappointed there hasn’t been a decent feed of info for us fans to debate, thrill over and I find that somewhat ignorant as fans are your greatest supporters, I wanted us all to come to love Les as part of this big family but the lack of updates just winds people up and causes uncertainty which as our ecomony shows is the worst thing you can do in business. Investment is dropping off allover the country, huge companies are failing leaving pensions robbed etc etc.
Tvr were a breath of fresh air when our car industry was on its knees all those years ago, a ray of hope and Tvr now could and should be filling that void for a performance car that sits between cheap crap and overly expensive sports cars 95% of people will never own.
Is it simply Bexit that’s holding this venture back until some clarification of all our futures is more secure.
Regardless of how disappointed I personally am at the design, the roof looks like it’s been stolen off a Ginetta, the chassis is the only bit I find exciting as I like things that go round corners. I’m very much in support of the company contrary to my negative words( if that’s how some see them) as I think all of us are.
Many people have expressed their frustrations in much the same way so a few technical details being shared with us TVR owners would have dispelled much of this doubt and got the company some much needed hype.
Ok that’s not going to bring on board some Arab investor in itself but anyone who knows anything about business knows a passionate fan base is something most start up companies dream of. We are important and keeping us and his deposit holders in the loop would be in my view vital.
The worst thing is we’ve been expecting an update for months that wasn’t forth coming until people on this thread started openly questioning why!
That’s how it looks even if it’s not the case.
Im now at the point where if I’m asked about the car because Joe public assume I should know as I own a Tvr I have very little confidence to say much about it,, maybe that’s the same for those in this new company.
I sometimes think is this just Les alone and there are few if anyone really working towards this car.
Perception is almost more powerful than fact so show your new customers more respect than answering only after people are pulling out because that’s what it looks like.
But then I have a vivid imagination.
Rant over
I like any other passionate Tvr owner want this to succeed in whatever shape or form and i was impressed with Les in the Silverstone video in so much as Les looked deeply proud and it’s obvious he really is a fan of Tvr and like a normal bloke would be, the human side was clearly there to see and I admire him for all he’s trying to do. For months and now years I like many thousands of Tvr supporters regularly come on here in hope of some news.
Just sharing a few technical details or even things that are causing headaches that are taking time to resolve or just how this or that have been engineered would keep the fires burning but silence for such long periods then ( might be coincidence ) as I don’t have a crystal ball but seemingly only after people are starting to openly dispute this car does an email appear.
I’m possibly miles off reality and it must be very difficult to build and bring any car to market in this fractured day and age but so little information just looks like somethings very wrong or they just don’t care what people including deposit holders are thinking.
You take on a name that many thousands of people are proud of regardless of your 500 deposit holders, you need to keep a conversation going as every time I buy something off Tvr Parts for my old Tvr I consider it as support for this new company so we old owners are making a choice to support this venture by doing so.
Ok it amounts to pennies but support is support.
I was a publicist for my own band many years ago, I was very young but we built up a reputation that took10 years to achieve though graft and hundreds of gigs, support from fans and followers of Tvr in general are a valuable source of free advertising because ( with a funky grill shape ) we’d be banging on about it to anybody in ear shot rather than just a couple of very passionate people on here ( which I also admire )
Ignoring your core fan base regardless of if they are signed upto this car as frankly not many can afford 100k in a dept ridden U.K. is an own goal in my book.
I’m sure there are many good reasons for keeping quiet until things can be solidified and in such a terrible period for our country politically I’m not suprised if he can’t get investors on board, did the email suggest foreign investment as who in Britain has such funds!
The darn thing will be built in some eastern block country if you don’t watch out,
Am I trolling!!!
Yeah I’m passionate and very respectful even 20 years later of the fan base my friends and I created out of thin air as kids for our band so just feel we are his best investors, once he has financial investors that is,,,
Maybe Les understands this so giving false hope or promises the company can’t keep just yet is maybe wise but the average Tvr owner probably owns his own business etc so understands much of this stuff.
I think I’m just very disappointed there hasn’t been a decent feed of info for us fans to debate, thrill over and I find that somewhat ignorant as fans are your greatest supporters, I wanted us all to come to love Les as part of this big family but the lack of updates just winds people up and causes uncertainty which as our ecomony shows is the worst thing you can do in business. Investment is dropping off allover the country, huge companies are failing leaving pensions robbed etc etc.
Tvr were a breath of fresh air when our car industry was on its knees all those years ago, a ray of hope and Tvr now could and should be filling that void for a performance car that sits between cheap crap and overly expensive sports cars 95% of people will never own.
Is it simply Bexit that’s holding this venture back until some clarification of all our futures is more secure.
Regardless of how disappointed I personally am at the design, the roof looks like it’s been stolen off a Ginetta, the chassis is the only bit I find exciting as I like things that go round corners. I’m very much in support of the company contrary to my negative words( if that’s how some see them) as I think all of us are.
Many people have expressed their frustrations in much the same way so a few technical details being shared with us TVR owners would have dispelled much of this doubt and got the company some much needed hype.
Ok that’s not going to bring on board some Arab investor in itself but anyone who knows anything about business knows a passionate fan base is something most start up companies dream of. We are important and keeping us and his deposit holders in the loop would be in my view vital.
The worst thing is we’ve been expecting an update for months that wasn’t forth coming until people on this thread started openly questioning why!
That’s how it looks even if it’s not the case.
Im now at the point where if I’m asked about the car because Joe public assume I should know as I own a Tvr I have very little confidence to say much about it,, maybe that’s the same for those in this new company.
I sometimes think is this just Les alone and there are few if anyone really working towards this car.
Perception is almost more powerful than fact so show your new customers more respect than answering only after people are pulling out because that’s what it looks like.
But then I have a vivid imagination.
Rant over
Was the first time I'd seen the new Griff in the flesh so I had lots of questions for the TVR staff on hand at Beaulieu. One was about the rear spoiler and yes it is fixed on the prototype, but the mechanism to raise/lower it on production cars is designed, built and ready to go. Why haven't they fitted it to the first car? Because they don't want to spend any more on it.
I am also one of the people that isn't very keen on the front, it certainly does look better in the flesh but, frankly, it is still ugly IMHO. Had a number of conversations about that, one member of staff saying that was how the front will be, take it or leave it, the other saying it still might change. They did both say they were well aware of the comments on here and FB and often wanted to chip in, but obviously could not! They also both said many people had given them direct feedback that they like the front too. I'd be surprised therefore if that wasn't one of the questions in the forthcoming questionnaire to deposit holders, as it seems to generate more comment than anything else!
I am also one of the people that isn't very keen on the front, it certainly does look better in the flesh but, frankly, it is still ugly IMHO. Had a number of conversations about that, one member of staff saying that was how the front will be, take it or leave it, the other saying it still might change. They did both say they were well aware of the comments on here and FB and often wanted to chip in, but obviously could not! They also both said many people had given them direct feedback that they like the front too. I'd be surprised therefore if that wasn't one of the questions in the forthcoming questionnaire to deposit holders, as it seems to generate more comment than anything else!
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff