New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
I get that most car manufacturers wont take to forums to decide if the car should be changed but most car manufacturers don't have so much riding on one launch model. My concern is that Les is only hearing positive comments because very few face to face have the courage to tell him the truth. Not because people are afraid but not many people want to kick someone after after they have worked so hard on something. But feelings aside this is a business and the success rides on the desirability of the car in both looks and performance.
The fear is that many deposit holders are holding on in anticipation of some changes to the front end, If they don't come I wonder how many will pull out when the final car is confirmed.
I remember at the reveal when they took the cover off there was an awkward silence which spoke a thousand words imo. I hope the pending survey does ask the question about the front so people can share their views thus giving TVR a true reflection of opinion. Perhaps those who don't like the front are in the minority but based on 300 pages in this thread I don't get that that impression.
Perhaps if there is a major investor in the wings they themselves may caveat any investment on some changes to the most obvious issues. E.g marketing, front of car (fingers crossed)
The fear is that many deposit holders are holding on in anticipation of some changes to the front end, If they don't come I wonder how many will pull out when the final car is confirmed.
I remember at the reveal when they took the cover off there was an awkward silence which spoke a thousand words imo. I hope the pending survey does ask the question about the front so people can share their views thus giving TVR a true reflection of opinion. Perhaps those who don't like the front are in the minority but based on 300 pages in this thread I don't get that that impression.
Perhaps if there is a major investor in the wings they themselves may caveat any investment on some changes to the most obvious issues. E.g marketing, front of car (fingers crossed)
I can tell you now, if the new griff was painful to drive and lairy in the wet - I would still buy it if it looked amazing (pretty/aggressive/purposeful). If it drives like a porsche and looks like a mustang had a threesome with a corvette and a transit, why would I not just buy a porsche?
When I had my GT2, it was so exciting to drive, so scary in the wet yet looked like every other 911 (with a bodykit) - there were lots of things i didn't like about it - the massive headlamps (surprise surprise), the crappy interior, the squealing ceramics but it was a car that had a purpose and when you could extract 7/10ths you felt on top of the world (I was too much of a pussy to drive it like I stole it).
The griffith may be the best engineered car ever but unless it IS better than a Mclaren 650/Ferrari 458/991 GT3 - no buyer will buy it because it will have no personality, it will be clinical like a Mclaren and not be as good looking (and Mclarens are ugly). It won't have the passion that Ferrari has and it won't have the track honed dna of a GT3.
It needs a personality and just being good at driving is not good enough ahem Nigel Mansell.
If it runs nurburg rings around the competition, then I can forgive its boxer's nose.
When I had my GT2, it was so exciting to drive, so scary in the wet yet looked like every other 911 (with a bodykit) - there were lots of things i didn't like about it - the massive headlamps (surprise surprise), the crappy interior, the squealing ceramics but it was a car that had a purpose and when you could extract 7/10ths you felt on top of the world (I was too much of a pussy to drive it like I stole it).
The griffith may be the best engineered car ever but unless it IS better than a Mclaren 650/Ferrari 458/991 GT3 - no buyer will buy it because it will have no personality, it will be clinical like a Mclaren and not be as good looking (and Mclarens are ugly). It won't have the passion that Ferrari has and it won't have the track honed dna of a GT3.
It needs a personality and just being good at driving is not good enough ahem Nigel Mansell.
If it runs nurburg rings around the competition, then I can forgive its boxer's nose.
Edited by Testarossa on Tuesday 21st August 11:46
m4tti said:
thecook101 said:
Good points but I don't agree with the alternatives needing to be new. At least for me, and I'm pretty sure there are others. When I'm looking to spend 90k on a car I look around and see what else is available, new or not. When it comes time to commit I'm definitely going to be assessing whether or not the Griff is the fastest, best handling, loudest, maddest, and best looking road car I can get for that money. Isn't that the whole point of a TVR?
This is spot on, and I’ve made this point before. With warranties being made available on the majority of used options, certain cars of genre, that years ago wouldn’t be considered come into play.. cars like the mclaren 12c. Noooop....HAS to be new..????????
spagbogdog said:
Bullet~Proof~Build~Quality and engineering excellence is what I DEMAND and EXPECT. Nothing short of this will be tolerated. I cannot imagine Les letting anything out of his new shed until he’s completely confident.
um, 1 prototype, built in a shed, and with massive bugetary constraints does not equal bullet proof engineering! Which ever way you cut it, TVRs customers are going to be guinea pigs, and ARE going to be "testing" the car to a large degree.I mean, take Aston Martin, producer of decent, but not class leading vehicles, they build something like 20 to 50 prototypes of any particular model, and have teams of hundreds of people working on them, refining and developing them, and then they have another couple of thousand people developing and testing the production line process to enable them to actually reliably build customer cars.
So far, TVR have knocked together one (already out of date, if engine changes are to be believed) prototype, and a couple of people have driven it for a bit, and that, as far as i can tell, is it?
m4tti said:
spagbogdog said:
12C is "last weeks fish & chip paper"... 540C is a more viable alternative (and wonderful !!)...but £40k more expensive..
Noooop....HAS to be new..????????
Explain why in sane terms?Noooop....HAS to be new..????????
Max_Torque said:
spagbogdog said:
Bullet~Proof~Build~Quality and engineering excellence is what I DEMAND and EXPECT. Nothing short of this will be tolerated. I cannot imagine Les letting anything out of his new shed until he’s completely confident.
um, 1 prototype, built in a shed, and with massive bugetary constraints does not equal bullet proof engineering! Which ever way you cut it, TVRs customers are going to be guinea pigs, and ARE going to be "testing" the car to a large degree.I mean, take Aston Martin, producer of decent, but not class leading vehicles, they build something like 20 to 50 prototypes of any particular model, and have teams of hundreds of people working on them, refining and developing them, and then they have another couple of thousand people developing and testing the production line process to enable them to actually reliably build customer cars.
So far, TVR have knocked together one (already out of date, if engine changes are to be believed) prototype, and a couple of people have driven it for a bit, and that, as far as i can tell, is it?
I said...it's what I demand and expect....
spagbogdog said:
Because you're then comparing "like for like" and establishing true value for money..
Value for money is perceived and qualitative. Acquiring a used 150k - 200k car for 90k would represent better value to me.
The 150k car (in this case the mclaren) has a much greater intrinsic value (derived from
It’s engineering, performance and desirability) and therefore the monetary pound per pound value you would be extracting from your 90k investment would be greater. This is before we mention any depreciation performance.
Testarossa said:
I can tell you now
The griffith may be the best engineered car ever but unless it IS better than a Mclaren 650/Ferrari 458/991 GT3 - no buyer will buy it because it will have no personality, it will be clinical like a Mclaren and not be as good looking (and Mclarens are ugly). It won't have the passion that Ferrari has and it won't have the track honed dna of a GT3.
The griffith may be the best engineered car ever but unless it IS better than a Mclaren 650/Ferrari 458/991 GT3 - no buyer will buy it because it will have no personality, it will be clinical like a Mclaren and not be as good looking (and Mclarens are ugly). It won't have the passion that Ferrari has and it won't have the track honed dna of a GT3.
Edited by Testarossa on Tuesday 21st August 11:46
McLaren's are ugly? Really?
That's a 12c right? an acquaintance has one - in orange, roadster - ugly - kids and everyone that see it, love it - not me
570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
spagbogdog said:
12C is "last weeks fish & chip paper"... 540C is a more viable alternative (and wonderful !!)...but £40k more expensive..
Noooop....HAS to be new..????????
Just thought I'd have some fun on autotrader with this. £75-100k. 2 doors, 2 seats, manual, 2018.Noooop....HAS to be new..????????
The list:
Exige S
Evora
911
Cayman GTS
Vantage
Personally I'd go for a second hand McLaren.....
Testarossa said:
That's a 12c right? an acquaintance has one - in orange, roadster - ugly - kids and everyone that see it, love it - not me
570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
Lairy green Aventador passed me while I was cycling home out of Lymington couple of months ago...GAWJUSSS I thought....can't possibly get any better I thought....570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
Very next morning a 570S passed me almost on the exact same hill...
It made the Aventador look like something out of the 1980's I'm afraid...was absolutely light-years ahead and completely reversed the prior evenings thoughts..
spagbogdog said:
Testarossa said:
That's a 12c right? an acquaintance has one - in orange, roadster - ugly - kids and everyone that see it, love it - not me
570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
Lairy green Aventador passed me while I was cycling home out of Lymington couple of months ago...GAWJUSSS I thought....can't possibly get any better I thought....570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
Very next morning a 570S passed me almost on the exact same hill...
It made the Aventador look like something out of the 1980's I'm afraid...was absolutely light-years ahead and completely reversed the prior evenings thoughts..
Testarossa said:
spagbogdog said:
Testarossa said:
That's a 12c right? an acquaintance has one - in orange, roadster - ugly - kids and everyone that see it, love it - not me
570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
Lairy green Aventador passed me while I was cycling home out of Lymington couple of months ago...GAWJUSSS I thought....can't possibly get any better I thought....570 - my friend had one - ugly, plus in town drove like a mondeo
720 - same friend had one - very nice but no aventador/murcielago
All in my humble opinion.
The only ones I would consider are the F1/P1(will never be able to afford) and the 720s performance (I think it's called) but at that price point, why would you not buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They have much more soul (in my opinion)
I get beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that and in real life the mclarens look 10 times better than in pictures (remind you of any other car?!) but put a mclaren side by side with its closest Italian competitor and crowds will gather round the the Signors.
Very next morning a 570S passed me almost on the exact same hill...
It made the Aventador look like something out of the 1980's I'm afraid...was absolutely light-years ahead and completely reversed the prior evenings thoughts..
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