New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
If I had a deposit down, (i probably would have if it had been the white one) I would stick it out but with the very real understanding that you may never see your money again and that the chances of actually getting a car are looking slimmer and slimmer with each passing month. There is potential for loads of delays yet given that the contract for the factory fit out has still to be awarded and the car has not been crash tested yet and rumors surrounding finance persist.
I wish Les and TVR all the best, I would love to see the brand back I really would. I currently own a Cerbera and have had 4 other TVRs so there in my blood but it is not looking good at the moment.
I wish Les and TVR all the best, I would love to see the brand back I really would. I currently own a Cerbera and have had 4 other TVRs so there in my blood but it is not looking good at the moment.
natben said:
If I had a deposit down, (i probably would have if it had been the white one) I would stick it out but with the very real understanding that you may never see your money again and that the chances of actually getting a car are looking slimmer and slimmer with each passing month. There is potential for loads of delays yet given that the contract for the factory fit out has still to be awarded and the car has not been crash tested yet and rumors surrounding finance persist.
I wish Les and TVR all the best, I would love to see the brand back I really would. I currently own a Cerbera and have had 4 other TVRs so there in my blood but it is not looking good at the moment.
Couldn't have expressed it any better, that's exactly what i'm doing. Still, i expect TVR to come up with a substantial update about the situation before next year. I'm not expecting delivery dates, but some of the concerns that are being discussed simply have to be addressed. If the money's gone, so be it. But i don't want to be suckered into wasting another two years waiting.I wish Les and TVR all the best, I would love to see the brand back I really would. I currently own a Cerbera and have had 4 other TVRs so there in my blood but it is not looking good at the moment.
FlipFlopGriff said:
2 deposits on LE's but 400+ in the queue but to wait 2 + years I may be dead. Deposit paid on credit card so should be OK but hankering for a Mustang (60's), an old Alfa or a Merc R107. Maybe need to move on.
CC payment will not be of much help, has been discussed before. I'd be willing to at least think about another two years if i knew in advance. But i want to know. The credit card coverage is an interesting one. Under section 75 of the consumer credit act it says goods are covered that have a minimum value of £100 and a max of £30000.
This includes providing coverage for the entire good or service even where the deposit was paid on a card but the balance by other method.
But in this case has a sale price for the car ever actually been established, so does the good sit outside the 30k limit or is the 5k deposit then deemed inside it as the cost of the final item hasn’t been determined.
This includes providing coverage for the entire good or service even where the deposit was paid on a card but the balance by other method.
But in this case has a sale price for the car ever actually been established, so does the good sit outside the 30k limit or is the 5k deposit then deemed inside it as the cost of the final item hasn’t been determined.
m4tti said:
The credit card coverage is an interesting one. Under section 75 of the consumer credit act it says goods are covered that have a minimum value of £100 and a max of £30000.
This includes providing coverage for the entire good or service even where the deposit was paid on a card but the balance by other method.
But in this case has a sale price for the car ever actually been established, so does the good sit outside the 30k limit or is the 5k deposit then deemed inside it as the cost of the final item hasn’t been determined.
Interesting, this is different in Germany. There is indeed no time limit, but from what i understand there must have been a specified good, a specified price and an actual binding sale. This includes providing coverage for the entire good or service even where the deposit was paid on a card but the balance by other method.
But in this case has a sale price for the car ever actually been established, so does the good sit outside the 30k limit or is the 5k deposit then deemed inside it as the cost of the final item hasn’t been determined.
If i was the cc-company, i'd claim that there was no binding sale in the first place due to lack of a specified good and a fixed price. Even if, it would have been above 30k, so void anyway.
So you might argue that the deposit itself has been the sold item. But then cc-company might tell you, that you actually have received the deposit. Does that make sense ?
edit:
read the 86/02 section from this site:
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publication...
It's close, but my earlier remarks still apply, as (i believe) it was no binding sale.
Edited by bullittmcqueen on Tuesday 4th December 23:15
For all those saying they are not bothered about losing your £5k deposits, you should be. If it was any other scam that took you for £5k you would be up in arms about it, you wouldn't say "oh well never mind", this is jut a face saving attitude.
The fact that it is on a promise of a car you really want and a brand you want to support makes it even worse in my opinion.
If TVR had any honour about them they would refund all the deposit holders who paid up in good faith, save their position on the waiting list, and offer them the opportunity to repay this deposit when they have sufficient finance in place to get the factory up and running and they have definite delivery dates for cars.
If they cannot do this the start up is not viable and deposit holders shouldn't accept the potential risk to their £5k.
The fact that it is on a promise of a car you really want and a brand you want to support makes it even worse in my opinion.
If TVR had any honour about them they would refund all the deposit holders who paid up in good faith, save their position on the waiting list, and offer them the opportunity to repay this deposit when they have sufficient finance in place to get the factory up and running and they have definite delivery dates for cars.
If they cannot do this the start up is not viable and deposit holders shouldn't accept the potential risk to their £5k.
Yes, I agree with all that. Let him return all the deposits, and then we can see how long he can then keep the project afloat with his own, as opposed to someone else's, money.
I wonder if Cosworth has already been paid for what is apparently a magnificent job on the modified Mustang engine ?
I wonder if Cosworth has already been paid for what is apparently a magnificent job on the modified Mustang engine ?
Monkeylegend said:
For all those saying they are not bothered about losing your £5k deposits, you should be. If it was any other scam that took you for £5k you would be up in arms about it, you wouldn't say "oh well never mind", this is jut a face saving attitude.
The fact that it is on a promise of a car you really want and a brand you want to support makes it even worse in my opinion.
If TVR had any honour about them they would refund all the deposit holders who paid up in good faith, save their position on the waiting list, and offer them the opportunity to repay this deposit when they have sufficient finance in place to get the factory up and running and they have definite delivery dates for cars.
If they cannot do this the start up is not viable and deposit holders shouldn't accept the potential risk to their £5k.
Just two thoughts: It's probably not going to help with securing additional financing when you let all the depositors "off the emotional hook". So far, everyone that wanted their deposit returned, received it, didn't they ? The fact that it is on a promise of a car you really want and a brand you want to support makes it even worse in my opinion.
If TVR had any honour about them they would refund all the deposit holders who paid up in good faith, save their position on the waiting list, and offer them the opportunity to repay this deposit when they have sufficient finance in place to get the factory up and running and they have definite delivery dates for cars.
If they cannot do this the start up is not viable and deposit holders shouldn't accept the potential risk to their £5k.
Second: i've seen a few scams but this is most definitely not one of them. Putting 5+ years into it, designing, developing a car, taking lots of personal risks and frustrations, getting the Welsh government on board. You only do this if you want to succeed. Did they do everything right ? No. Will they succeed ? Not so sure anymore. Is their comm subpar ? Definitely.
But they certainly have to get their act together and tell what's going on. Otherwise more and more people will pull out, and even i have been to the point where i thought about it. They need to understand that the difference between people talking about climate change and people talking about their venture is, that the first is not impacted by the talking, the latter is.
On the other hand, i certainly don't want to be in their spot. Whatever happens, this thread has a bright future
bullittmcqueen said:
Monkeylegend said:
For all those saying they are not bothered about losing your £5k deposits, you should be. If it was any other scam that took you for £5k you would be up in arms about it, you wouldn't say "oh well never mind", this is jut a face saving attitude.
The fact that it is on a promise of a car you really want and a brand you want to support makes it even worse in my opinion.
If TVR had any honour about them they would refund all the deposit holders who paid up in good faith, save their position on the waiting list, and offer them the opportunity to repay this deposit when they have sufficient finance in place to get the factory up and running and they have definite delivery dates for cars.
If they cannot do this the start up is not viable and deposit holders shouldn't accept the potential risk to their £5k.
Just two thoughts: It's probably not going to help with securing additional financing when you let all the depositors "off the emotional hook". So far, everyone that wanted their deposit returned, received it, didn't they ? The fact that it is on a promise of a car you really want and a brand you want to support makes it even worse in my opinion.
If TVR had any honour about them they would refund all the deposit holders who paid up in good faith, save their position on the waiting list, and offer them the opportunity to repay this deposit when they have sufficient finance in place to get the factory up and running and they have definite delivery dates for cars.
If they cannot do this the start up is not viable and deposit holders shouldn't accept the potential risk to their £5k.
Second: i've seen a few scams but this is most definitely not one of them. Putting 5+ years into it, designing, developing a car, taking lots of personal risks and frustrations, getting the Welsh government on board. You only do this if you want to succeed. Did they do everything right ? No. Will they succeed ? Not so sure anymore. Is their comm subpar ? Definitely.
But they certainly have to get their act together and tell what's going on. Otherwise more and more people will pull out, and even i have been to the point where i thought about it. They need to understand that the difference between people talking about climate change and people talking about their venture is, that the first is not impacted by the talking, the latter is.
On the other hand, i certainly don't want to be in their spot. Whatever happens, this thread has a bright future
If this is the case and with no clear idea yet about when production will start, if at all, it would be a gesture of good faith from TVR to return those monies until they are in position to start producing the first car. In the meantime, which looks like it could be at least another couple of years, they are sitting on £2.5m of potential customers money, thank you very much, which is potentially at risk.
They know who is where in the waiting list, so return that money now whilst all this uncertainty exists, keep those people in the same place on a waiting list, and take the deposits when the factory is up and ready to build cars and an order is required to confirm the customers specification.
That's assuming this money hasn't already been spent by TVR.
Everybody keeps saying what a gent LE is so there should be no issue with that, trust works both ways.
Monkeylegend said:
return that money now whilst all this uncertainty exists.
Sorry to disagree but I think that would be a terrible move - I imagine their 'stock price' (i.e. their appeal to potential investors at this stage) would plummet if they returned the deposits. The press would report it as another draw back, and the negativity in the media could become a self fulfilling prophesy.
- I acknowledge this is easy for me to say as I don't have a deposit.
V8 GMS said:
Monkeylegend said:
return that money now whilst all this uncertainty exists.
Sorry to disagree but I think that would be a terrible move - I imagine their 'stock price' (i.e. their appeal to potential investors at this stage) would plummet if they returned the deposits. The press would report it as another draw back, and the negativity in the media could become a self fulfilling prophesy.
- I acknowledge this is easy for me to say as I don't have a deposit.
V6 Pushfit said:
Given the lack of THE update, or indeed anything from TVR themselves at all, I'm beginning to think this is all looking a to be a bit of a white elephant.
But that would be OK, right? A two seater coupe with a big V8 in the front. 
V8 GMS said:
Monkeylegend said:
return that money now whilst all this uncertainty exists.
Sorry to disagree but I think that would be a terrible move - I imagine their 'stock price' (i.e. their appeal to potential investors at this stage) would plummet if they returned the deposits. The press would report it as another draw back, and the negativity in the media could become a self fulfilling prophesy.
- I acknowledge this is easy for me to say as I don't have a deposit.
In the current situation I don't see how it could get any worse. It would be better to offer to pay back voluntarily than have deposit holders demanding money back. IMHO
Jhonno said:
V8 GMS said:
Monkeylegend said:
return that money now whilst all this uncertainty exists.
Sorry to disagree but I think that would be a terrible move - I imagine their 'stock price' (i.e. their appeal to potential investors at this stage) would plummet if they returned the deposits. The press would report it as another draw back, and the negativity in the media could become a self fulfilling prophesy.
- I acknowledge this is easy for me to say as I don't have a deposit.
Sometimes it is better to put undying optimism and the head in the sand attitude aside, as admiral as they might be, and look at the reality of the situation. I can summarise that in two words ...........Theresa May.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 5th December 10:20
Surely the only people who should feel the need to make demands of a company are those who are customers in the form of deposit holders.
We may all have a view on it, but actually if the deposit holders are happy to wait (and they can ask for deposits back if they wish), why should people feel the need to request a company returns the deposits and say that is the only fair thing to do, it makes no sense to me.
It takes a lot of nerve to start up a car company and without people doing it, these type of cars wouldn't exist. They are clearly putting a lot of their time and money into this venture, so they are risking a lot personally as well.
We may all have a view on it, but actually if the deposit holders are happy to wait (and they can ask for deposits back if they wish), why should people feel the need to request a company returns the deposits and say that is the only fair thing to do, it makes no sense to me.
It takes a lot of nerve to start up a car company and without people doing it, these type of cars wouldn't exist. They are clearly putting a lot of their time and money into this venture, so they are risking a lot personally as well.
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