New TVR still under wraps!

Author
Discussion

baconsarney

8,640 posts

97 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
We have read some of your alcohol induced, cringeworthy posts and love poems to your friend Les,
roflroflrofl

getmecoat

unrepentant

19,058 posts

192 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
Wacky Racer said:
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
In many ways it is the same speculation that followed the Model 3 Tesla, but deliveries start next year to Europe. They had no factory, lack of supply chain, scaling issues etc etc.

Anything that is not in production always looks more risky.
It's completely and utterly different. Tesla were making and selling the Model S, the Model X was on line and it's a public company with assets (in 2017) of $28 billion! TVR is an idea with one car, no balance sheet and nothing much else apart from a few million quid of other people's money that has already been spent.

Oh, and the Model 3 is already on the roads here (USA) and has been for a while.
Hi 'rep smile

I know you had a couple of nice TVR's (One caught fire in your drive, I seem to recall), when you lived in God's own county

Just as a matter of interest, if you lived in the UK now, knowing what you know, would you put 5k of your hard earned down for the new car?
Hi Wack.

Yep, Tuscan, Tuscan 2 and Sagaris. Watched my T2 being built and with my friend Lady Topaz helped to redesign the dash pod which you couldn’t see in sunlight. Visited the factory a few times including the last time in convoy with a hundred or so others.

The Sagaris was the last TVR. This car, if it’s ever built, has no TVR DNA beyond the name. So no, I would have no interest in owning one.

ahpboxster

28 posts

22 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
In many ways it is the same speculation that followed the Model 3 Tesla, but deliveries start next year to Europe. They had no factory, lack of supply chain, scaling issues etc etc.

Anything that is not in production always looks more risky.
It's completely and utterly different. Tesla were making and selling the Model S, the Model X was on line and it's a public company with assets (in 2017) of $28 billion! TVR is an idea with one car, no balance sheet and nothing much else apart from a few million quid of other people's money that has already been spent.

Oh, and the Model 3 is already on the roads here (USA) and has been for a while
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.

In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.

Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc

Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.

So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.





Monkeylegend

14,118 posts

167 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
ahpboxster said:
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
In many ways it is the same speculation that followed the Model 3 Tesla, but deliveries start next year to Europe. They had no factory, lack of supply chain, scaling issues etc etc.

Anything that is not in production always looks more risky.
It's completely and utterly different. Tesla were making and selling the Model S, the Model X was on line and it's a public company with assets (in 2017) of $28 billion! TVR is an idea with one car, no balance sheet and nothing much else apart from a few million quid of other people's money that has already been spent.

Oh, and the Model 3 is already on the roads here (USA) and has been for a while
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.

In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.

Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc

Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.

So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
I would say it is very much different in terms of each companies abitity and "offering" to attract investors which is what TVR apparently need to do.

Tesla have not had that much difficulty attracting billions in investment because of their leading position in the EV market.

TVR's market place is somewhat different, and I would suggest a much worse medium to long term risk.

plfrench

1,409 posts

204 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
V6 Pushfit said:
So Schmee - what’s going on ??
It would appear Schmee is considering an M850i as a stop gap. At least that was my interpretation of a comment he made in a video a couple of days ago.

He mentioned that with him getting an AMG GT-R Pro to replace the AMG GT-R and with a 'certain car' being delayed for a while, he'd need something to tide him over for where he'd need a coupe with a bit of practicality (i.e. without a roll-cage! biggrin).
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ahpboxster

28 posts

22 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
ahpboxster said:
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
In many ways it is the same speculation that followed the Model 3 Tesla, but deliveries start next year to Europe. They had no factory, lack of supply chain, scaling issues etc etc.

Anything that is not in production always looks more risky.
It's completely and utterly different. Tesla were making and selling the Model S, the Model X was on line and it's a public company with assets (in 2017) of $28 billion! TVR is an idea with one car, no balance sheet and nothing much else apart from a few million quid of other people's money that has already been spent.

Oh, and the Model 3 is already on the roads here (USA) and has been for a while
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.

In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.

Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc

Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.

So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
I would say it is very much different in terms of each companies abitity and "offering" to attract investors which is what TVR apparently need to do.

Tesla have not had that much difficulty attracting billions in investment because of their leading position in the EV market.

TVR's market place is somewhat different, and I would suggest a much worse medium to long term risk.
Different type of investor though, plenty of short sellers trying to influence Tesla which creates a different risk.

Plus Elon recently stated they were weeks from going bust earlier in the year due to Model 3 production and the sheer amount of money they needed. So not that different to where people “think” TVR is now.

But Tesla seem to be getting over it now, but the comments on here are almost identical to what was being said about Tesla not that long ago.

I would prefer to give them a chance and at the end of the day it is only the deposit holders who can legitimately be concerned about their money.

Wacky Racer

30,185 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
Hi Wack.

Yep, Tuscan, Tuscan 2 and Sagaris. Watched my T2 being built and with my friend Lady Topaz helped to redesign the dash pod which you couldn’t see in sunlight. Visited the factory a few times including the last time in convoy with a hundred or so others.

The Sagaris was the last TVR. This car, if it’s ever built, has no TVR DNA beyond the name. So no, I would have no interest in owning one.
Interesting...

Cheers, thumbup

Monkeylegend

14,118 posts

167 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
ahpboxster said:
Different type of investor though, plenty of short sellers trying to influence Tesla which creates a different risk.

Plus Elon recently stated they were weeks from going bust earlier in the year due to Model 3 production and the sheer amount of money they needed. So not that different to where people “think” TVR is now.

But Tesla seem to be getting over it now, but the comments on here are almost identical to what was being said about Tesla not that long ago.

I would prefer to give them a chance and at the end of the day it is only the deposit holders who can legitimately be concerned about their money.
But the bottom line is Tesla was and still is a more attractive company for investors, compared to the pheonix TVR because of their offering.

ahpboxster

28 posts

22 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
How do you know though, you have no idea about discussions that TVR are having re investment. That is what I am trying to say, we don’t know it ‘s all speculation.

Have you seen the Tesla balance sheet deficit, on paper it is not a great investment at all, but people still invest. It has a massive almost $2BN hole. Which in reality makes it much worse

It isn’t just about the production numbers or figures otherwise nobody would have invested in Tesla. It’s all about future potential, just like TVR


twold

101 posts

66 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
I'm really pleased that the 'edge' has returned to this thread ,I thought it was lost,the other one has faded away insteadconfused.Keep it up chaps ,and please please Autodesign ....return to this discussion ,it needs your input to keep it interestingbeer

Monkeylegend

14,118 posts

167 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
ahpboxster said:
It’s all about future potential, just like TVR
Now lets think about this. Tesla with a model range of very fast, good range, all electric vehicles, with full order books, all the infrastructure needed to build cars by the 100 thousands, a plant for building batteries, a dealership network, or TVR with one prototype powered by a petrol V8, that doesn't appear to be road registered, only 75% of the parts required sourced, no production facilities, a shed where they apparently do the development work, no PR team, hopeless communications, and seemingly needing more money to progress further.

I know where I would invest my money.

I rest my case smile

Autodesign

69 posts

102 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
‘I’m Spartacus ‘ let the deposit holder revolution commence ! Here is the point - I am not a troll as the pro camp/ investors like to say ! What’s really going on here is the fault of a very poorly conceived and managed company . As a car lover and ex deposited holder I refuse to let others lose their hard earned cash ! That’s my only point here . Les is a lovely chap but leave him to manage Gatton Manor where he has his work cut out. The simple truth is the longer this goes on the worse of a hole the company gets into . This ultimately means deposit holders money being blown . Also it quickly turns from good faith to something more sinister as the company runs short of capital.

unrepentant

19,058 posts

192 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
ahpboxster said:
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.

In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.

Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc

Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.

So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
It’s totally different.

“TVR” have nothing. They haven’t built even one production car. They have no premises. They have hardly any staff. They have no history of building cars.

Tesla has sold hundreds of thousands of cars. They have tangible results, people are driving around in their product. They are also innovators.

V8 GMS

684 posts

151 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
Autodesign said:
‘I’m Spartacus‘
I'm Spartacus!

Les, get the Spartacus username and join in... rofl

swisstoni

7,174 posts

215 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.

In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.

Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc

Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.

So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
It’s totally different.

“TVR” have nothing. They haven’t built even one production car. They have no premises. They have hardly any staff. They have no history of building cars.

Tesla has sold hundreds of thousands of cars. They have tangible results, people are driving around in their product. They are also innovators.
And they turned a small profit for the first time this year after 8 years.
At this stage, without funding yet in place, it’s a good thing that TVR ‘has nothing’.

bullittmcqueen

578 posts

27 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
People are tempted to see similarities with the likes of Facebook, Whatsapp, Amazon etc. But what makes Facebook et al. so powerful, is that they leverage the connection between their users. Once a player has critical mass in that segment, it's almost impossible for the competition to catch up. That's why Google+ has failed and Facebook bought Whatsapp for 30 Billion. Tesla is often ranked among those, because it's tech and hip and somehow software and they got Elon Musk who makes rockets land backwards (which is really impressive and adds true high-tech geek-credibility).

But what's wrong with that picture is, that Tesla is just a car company. They produce physical goods. And all the pesky physics apply and materials, storage, moving stuff around needs to be done and then there is old-school stuff like build-quality, faulty parts, just-in-time deliveries etc. And all this is cannot be solved with an update in an app or a fix in a software-backend. There is also no connection between users. You can visit your aunt with a Tesla, a Chevy, a Honda, etc. ( except a 2018 TVR Griffith) and it also totally doesn't matter what car your neighbor drives. But if all members of your family are on Whatsapp, you better be too, or you'll miss the party.

So the perceived first-mover advantage actually buys you nothing in the physical world. Maybe if cars were new, but there are already tons of established car brands that building better cars than Tesla (in terms of overall quality). Electric engines will be commodity, batteries as well. But there is still 90% of the car left to leave your mark on. These powerful, capable high-end and mass-producers around that are looking closely at what Tesla is doing. And just when Tesla thinks they crossed the finish line, they will show up and hit them straight in the face.

Tesla-cars will look suddenly aged and low-quality once the competition switches to overdrive (and they will for sure). The car industry is probably one of the most competitive in the world and Tesla is only (barely) looking ok, because right now they are only fighting with themselves.

It was easy for Tesla to get financing when they were the only game in town, but they are accumulating losses and people are waking up to the fact that maybe, just maybe, other established producers might be able to build an electric car or two as well, and maybe even better ones.















m4tti

4,053 posts

91 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.

In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.

Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc

Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.

So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
It’s totally different.

“TVR” have nothing. They haven’t built even one production car. They have no premises. They have hardly any staff. They have no history of building cars.

Tesla has sold hundreds of thousands of cars. They have tangible results, people are driving around in their product. They are also innovators.
And they turned a small profit for the first time this year after 8 years.
At this stage, without funding yet in place, it’s a good thing that TVR ‘has nothing’.
Tesla are also headed up by someone who can potentially generate enough funding/has the funds to theoretically take Tesla private again.

bullittmcqueen

578 posts

27 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
m4tti said:
Tesla are also headed up by someone who can potentially generate enough funding/has the funds to theoretically take Tesla private again.
Noone's gonna take Tesla private again. Current market cap is 60+ billion, you'd have to add a massive mark-up. All that for a massive loss-maker ?

m4tti

4,053 posts

91 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
bullittmcqueen said:
Noone's gonna take Tesla private again. Current market cap is 60+ billion, you'd have to add a massive mark-up. All that for a massive loss-maker ?
Ego and diversification will probably help. Plus a dab of weed hehe

ginkent

92 posts

30 months

Thursday 6th December
quotequote all
Long time lurker, read all this thread, let me summarise it:

If you have the means to drop 90k+ on this, you probably don’t give a st about the 2.5k - your only concern is the delay

Trolls like AD enjoy stiring the pot and getting a reaction

The car will come, it will be late and the gormless front will be addressed

If it all goes tits up, the 2.5k deposit holders will have a good dinner party tale to tell - so no big loss really

In the meantime ppl will beer-talk just to pass the time between infrequent updates.

Chill out, getting worked up about it won’t speed anything up, other than your heart rate.