New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
ahpboxster said:
It’s all about future potential, just like TVR
Now lets think about this. Tesla with a model range of very fast, good range, all electric vehicles, with full order books, all the infrastructure needed to build cars by the 100 thousands, a plant for building batteries, a dealership network, or TVR with one prototype powered by a petrol V8, that doesn't appear to be road registered, only 75% of the parts required sourced, no production facilities, a shed where they apparently do the development work, no PR team, hopeless communications, and seemingly needing more money to progress further.I know where I would invest my money.
I rest my case
‘I’m Spartacus ‘ let the deposit holder revolution commence ! Here is the point - I am not a troll as the pro camp/ investors like to say ! What’s really going on here is the fault of a very poorly conceived and managed company . As a car lover and ex deposited holder I refuse to let others lose their hard earned cash ! That’s my only point here . Les is a lovely chap but leave him to manage Gatton Manor where he has his work cut out. The simple truth is the longer this goes on the worse of a hole the company gets into . This ultimately means deposit holders money being blown . Also it quickly turns from good faith to something more sinister as the company runs short of capital.
ahpboxster said:
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.
In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.
Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc
Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.
So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
It’s totally different. In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.
Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc
Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.
So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
“TVR” have nothing. They haven’t built even one production car. They have no premises. They have hardly any staff. They have no history of building cars.
Tesla has sold hundreds of thousands of cars. They have tangible results, people are driving around in their product. They are also innovators.
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.
In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.
Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc
Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.
So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
It’s totally different. In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.
Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc
Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.
So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
“TVR” have nothing. They haven’t built even one production car. They have no premises. They have hardly any staff. They have no history of building cars.
Tesla has sold hundreds of thousands of cars. They have tangible results, people are driving around in their product. They are also innovators.
At this stage, without funding yet in place, it’s a good thing that TVR ‘has nothing’.
People are tempted to see similarities with the likes of Facebook, Whatsapp, Amazon etc. But what makes Facebook et al. so powerful, is that they leverage the connection between their users. Once a player has critical mass in that segment, it's almost impossible for the competition to catch up. That's why Google+ has failed and Facebook bought Whatsapp for 30 Billion. Tesla is often ranked among those, because it's tech and hip and somehow software and they got Elon Musk who makes rockets land backwards (which is really impressive and adds true high-tech geek-credibility).
But what's wrong with that picture is, that Tesla is just a car company. They produce physical goods. And all the pesky physics apply and materials, storage, moving stuff around needs to be done and then there is old-school stuff like build-quality, faulty parts, just-in-time deliveries etc. And all this is cannot be solved with an update in an app or a fix in a software-backend. There is also no connection between users. You can visit your aunt with a Tesla, a Chevy, a Honda, etc. ( except a 2018 TVR Griffith) and it also totally doesn't matter what car your neighbor drives. But if all members of your family are on Whatsapp, you better be too, or you'll miss the party.
So the perceived first-mover advantage actually buys you nothing in the physical world. Maybe if cars were new, but there are already tons of established car brands that building better cars than Tesla (in terms of overall quality). Electric engines will be commodity, batteries as well. But there is still 90% of the car left to leave your mark on. These powerful, capable high-end and mass-producers around that are looking closely at what Tesla is doing. And just when Tesla thinks they crossed the finish line, they will show up and hit them straight in the face.
Tesla-cars will look suddenly aged and low-quality once the competition switches to overdrive (and they will for sure). The car industry is probably one of the most competitive in the world and Tesla is only (barely) looking ok, because right now they are only fighting with themselves.
It was easy for Tesla to get financing when they were the only game in town, but they are accumulating losses and people are waking up to the fact that maybe, just maybe, other established producers might be able to build an electric car or two as well, and maybe even better ones.
But what's wrong with that picture is, that Tesla is just a car company. They produce physical goods. And all the pesky physics apply and materials, storage, moving stuff around needs to be done and then there is old-school stuff like build-quality, faulty parts, just-in-time deliveries etc. And all this is cannot be solved with an update in an app or a fix in a software-backend. There is also no connection between users. You can visit your aunt with a Tesla, a Chevy, a Honda, etc. ( except a 2018 TVR Griffith) and it also totally doesn't matter what car your neighbor drives. But if all members of your family are on Whatsapp, you better be too, or you'll miss the party.
So the perceived first-mover advantage actually buys you nothing in the physical world. Maybe if cars were new, but there are already tons of established car brands that building better cars than Tesla (in terms of overall quality). Electric engines will be commodity, batteries as well. But there is still 90% of the car left to leave your mark on. These powerful, capable high-end and mass-producers around that are looking closely at what Tesla is doing. And just when Tesla thinks they crossed the finish line, they will show up and hit them straight in the face.
Tesla-cars will look suddenly aged and low-quality once the competition switches to overdrive (and they will for sure). The car industry is probably one of the most competitive in the world and Tesla is only (barely) looking ok, because right now they are only fighting with themselves.
It was easy for Tesla to get financing when they were the only game in town, but they are accumulating losses and people are waking up to the fact that maybe, just maybe, other established producers might be able to build an electric car or two as well, and maybe even better ones.
swisstoni said:
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
Really It’s not that different, burning through money, factory had to be built, needed funding to continue, delays, production issues, hadn’t turned a profit. The fact it is on the road (as you pointed out) actually proves my point, despite all this and the constant doubters it can be done.
In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.
Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc
Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.
So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
It’s totally different. In fact Tesla is loss making. They also had millions in deposits before the delayed car became available and plenty of speculation they would run out of money.
Stories of cancelled deposits outstripping new deposits etc etc
Assets don’t mean a lot unless you look at complete balance sheet. And despite you saying the S and X were available they would never be protifable or viable in their own right without the Model 3, which they fully admitted.
So I would have to disagree with saying it is utterly different, maybe different scale, similar stories of doubt and speculation.
“TVR” have nothing. They haven’t built even one production car. They have no premises. They have hardly any staff. They have no history of building cars.
Tesla has sold hundreds of thousands of cars. They have tangible results, people are driving around in their product. They are also innovators.
At this stage, without funding yet in place, it’s a good thing that TVR ‘has nothing’.
m4tti said:
Tesla are also headed up by someone who can potentially generate enough funding/has the funds to theoretically take Tesla private again.
Noone's gonna take Tesla private again. Current market cap is 60+ billion, you'd have to add a massive mark-up. All that for a massive loss-maker ? Long time lurker, read all this thread, let me summarise it:
If you have the means to drop 90k+ on this, you probably don’t give a s
t about the 2.5k - your only concern is the delay
Trolls like AD enjoy stiring the pot and getting a reaction
The car will come, it will be late and the gormless front will be addressed
If it all goes tits up, the 2.5k deposit holders will have a good dinner party tale to tell - so no big loss really
In the meantime ppl will beer-talk just to pass the time between infrequent updates.
Chill out, getting worked up about it won’t speed anything up, other than your heart rate.
If you have the means to drop 90k+ on this, you probably don’t give a s
t about the 2.5k - your only concern is the delayTrolls like AD enjoy stiring the pot and getting a reaction
The car will come, it will be late and the gormless front will be addressed
If it all goes tits up, the 2.5k deposit holders will have a good dinner party tale to tell - so no big loss really
In the meantime ppl will beer-talk just to pass the time between infrequent updates.
Chill out, getting worked up about it won’t speed anything up, other than your heart rate.
m4tti said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Noone's gonna take Tesla private again. Current market cap is 60+ billion, you'd have to add a massive mark-up. All that for a massive loss-maker ?
Ego and diversification will probably help. Plus a dab of weed 
But whatever happens, he will have a few outstanding stories to tell.
TVR definitely need go their act together and tell what's going on. I'm starting to look at Z06es right now and will make up my mind until beginning of next year.
bullittmcqueen said:
m4tti said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Noone's gonna take Tesla private again. Current market cap is 60+ billion, you'd have to add a massive mark-up. All that for a massive loss-maker ?
Ego and diversification will probably help. Plus a dab of weed But whatever happens, he will have a few outstanding stories to tell.
TVR definitely need go their act together and tell what's going on. I'm starting to look at Z06es right now and will make up my mind until beginning of next year.
m4tti said:
bullittmcqueen said:
m4tti said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Noone's gonna take Tesla private again. Current market cap is 60+ billion, you'd have to add a massive mark-up. All that for a massive loss-maker ?
Ego and diversification will probably help. Plus a dab of weed But whatever happens, he will have a few outstanding stories to tell.
TVR definitely need go their act together and tell what's going on. I'm starting to look at Z06es right now and will make up my mind until beginning of next year.
skwdenyer said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Tbh, i have absolutely no explanation for their communication-strategy.
Is the obvious explanation simply that they don't have any communication staff?skwdenyer said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Tbh, i have absolutely no explanation for their communication-strategy.
Is the obvious explanation simply that they don't have any communication staff?And, maybe we're just asking too much. This kind of chatter-dynamics is present in all forums, be it stock-market, software, security, politics, you name it. You got the haters, the realists, the fans, the trolls and the lurkers and in the end it turns into a flamefest (we're not there yet !!). Maybe it IS the right thing to simply ignore it.
I have the utmost respect for them doing this, must take balls of steel. And going through all the comments here isn't all fun and games either. So still don't know what to make of it.
ginkent said:
Long time lurker, read all this thread, let me summarise it:
If you have the means to drop 90k+ on this, you probably don’t give a st about the 2.5k - your only concern is the delay
Trolls like AD enjoy stiring the pot and getting a reaction
The car will come, it will be late and the gormless front will be addressed
If it all goes tits up, the 2.5k deposit holders will have a good dinner party tale to tell - so no big loss really
In the meantime ppl will beer-talk just to pass the time between infrequent updates.
Chill out, getting worked up about it won’t speed anything up, other than your heart rate.
I agree. I don't mind the despair, it is the hope of getting one that kills.. If you have the means to drop 90k+ on this, you probably don’t give a s
t about the 2.5k - your only concern is the delayTrolls like AD enjoy stiring the pot and getting a reaction
The car will come, it will be late and the gormless front will be addressed
If it all goes tits up, the 2.5k deposit holders will have a good dinner party tale to tell - so no big loss really
In the meantime ppl will beer-talk just to pass the time between infrequent updates.
Chill out, getting worked up about it won’t speed anything up, other than your heart rate.
Monkeylegend said:
Now lets think about this. Tesla with a model range of very fast, good range, all electric vehicles, with full order books, all the infrastructure needed to build cars by the 100 thousands, a plant for building batteries, a dealership network, or TVR with one prototype powered by a petrol V8, that doesn't appear to be road registered, only 75% of the parts required sourced, no production facilities, a shed where they apparently do the development work, no PR team, hopeless communications, and seemingly needing more money to progress further.
I know where I would invest my money.
I rest my case
You are looking at it now though, not back when it was starting and they got the same comments as TVR and lot's of comments from motoring press. Plenty of people invested earlier and made some pretty good gains and without them Tesla would not be around. There was range anxiety, lack of infrastructure, no servicing locations, safety concerns. But they have been overcome (not all on day one) and I bet you thought about those things then, I did.I know where I would invest my money.
I rest my case
So really what you are saying in hindsight is you should have invested early and got in on the growth and not waited until now
. Plenty of investors who work that way, some win, some lose, but they exist and people secure finance.Edited by ahpboxster on Friday 7th December 09:20
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff