New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
The article as I see it is indeed a gathering of info which is already out there, reproduced into one of factually correct information from TVR itself. So.... the point being everything which has been stated to date by TVR is honest and correct.... we are now in a 'quiet period' which will give way to more noise in the form of another update followed by big news in the near future. Also as stated openly by Les 'we won't say anything until there is something to say'! Folk seem to think deposit holders should be told more, but if you were Les... really would you publish your business working on a public forum!!! Get real... let the guys do there work and come to us when it is done!
Graham007 said:
The article as I see it is indeed a gathering of info which is already out there, reproduced into one of factually correct information from TVR itself. So.... the point being everything which has been stated to date by TVR is honest and correct.... we are now in a 'quiet period' which will give way to more noise in the form of another update followed by big news in the near future. Also as stated openly by Les 'we won't say anything until there is something to say'! Folk seem to think deposit holders should be told more, but if you were Les... really would you publish your business working on a public forum!!! Get real... let the guys do there work and come to us when it is done!
No one has said Les should post on here?Where’s all this coming from today - it must be due to all the company Christmas beanos last night!
Waiting for someone to ask again why they haven’t done a limited production run of 10 to get things going.....
spagbogdog said:
unrepentant said:
ahpboxster said:
unrepentant said:
They have deposits for a few hundred cars. But according to their accounts the deposit holders money is gone so in reality they have unfulfilled orders.
Sorry..not with you ...Can you direct me to this bit on the Accts..?
I can clearly see the Bridging Finance and the Welsh Govt loan coming in.
I’m pretty sure I can also see the trail of Depositors monies from 2016 onwards. This has increased..not decreased.
Need you to enlighten me please..???
Had a T350C for 4 years, loved it and was eagerly awaiting the new TVR. I didn't end up putting a deposit down based on the design.
We were having a discussion recently about the design in the office, overall, I think it's got elements of the TVR character/ethos, rear and overall profile are decent, although I still stand by my opinion that the front / side and rear have all been penned by different designers who didn't seem to properly engage with each other. I'd be interested to see if others see the same issues as me, see below.. purely my own thoughts and some quick 'shoppery..
Some subtle changes and a new front bumper/lights maybe?
We were having a discussion recently about the design in the office, overall, I think it's got elements of the TVR character/ethos, rear and overall profile are decent, although I still stand by my opinion that the front / side and rear have all been penned by different designers who didn't seem to properly engage with each other. I'd be interested to see if others see the same issues as me, see below.. purely my own thoughts and some quick 'shoppery..
Some subtle changes and a new front bumper/lights maybe?
@yorksram:
Great work, what was the 3d-model based on ?
Tbh, i'm not so sure about the changes to the front, it it is now too busy and the added aggressiveness in your mod in the lower part needs to be applied to the hood too. It's still too round. I think that the the mods we've seen in the Crew2 game would immediately solve all problems in the front-area.
But i really love what you did to the side-profile, although i think that the front-side and front-45 views are pretty cool the way they are now. The overfender work is brilliant and it's amazing how the forward stance adds power to the front. Brings out the splitter way better. I'm not sure that the lights could remain that way as there is regulation concerning visibility from various angles and i don't think they are visible enough from the side.
Again, great work, thx.
Great work, what was the 3d-model based on ?
Tbh, i'm not so sure about the changes to the front, it it is now too busy and the added aggressiveness in your mod in the lower part needs to be applied to the hood too. It's still too round. I think that the the mods we've seen in the Crew2 game would immediately solve all problems in the front-area.
But i really love what you did to the side-profile, although i think that the front-side and front-45 views are pretty cool the way they are now. The overfender work is brilliant and it's amazing how the forward stance adds power to the front. Brings out the splitter way better. I'm not sure that the lights could remain that way as there is regulation concerning visibility from various angles and i don't think they are visible enough from the side.
Again, great work, thx.
spagbogdog said:
Sorry..not with you ...
Can you direct me to this bit on the Accts..?
I can clearly see the Bridging Finance and the Welsh Govt loan coming in.
I’m pretty sure I can also see the trail of Depositors monies from 2016 onwards. This has increased..not decreased.
Need you to enlighten me please..???
The balance sheets are all that matters.Can you direct me to this bit on the Accts..?
I can clearly see the Bridging Finance and the Welsh Govt loan coming in.
I’m pretty sure I can also see the trail of Depositors monies from 2016 onwards. This has increased..not decreased.
Need you to enlighten me please..???
Balance sheet of TVR Automotive show total cash at bank of 11 pounds. That's 11 pounds. Balance sheet shows a positive position of 1.9 million pounds but that is propped up entirely by debtors of 7.8 million pounds which is principally money owed to it by TVR Manufacturing.
Balance sheet of TVR Manufacturing shows total cash at bank of 28,000 pounds. Balance sheet shows a negative position of 1.1 million pounds. What is more that position is supported by 9 million pounds of "Intangible assets". The company is a going concern only on the basis that it's parent won't ask for it's money back.
Show me where the $2 million of deposit holders money is. Show me where it's even mentioned. "Other creditors"? In my experience "other creditors" is not a great place to be.
Strip out the intangibles and this business looks like it's about 8 million quid in the hole with no cash, no product, no staff and no factory. In a fire sale what are the intangibles worth?
The automotive space costs a fortune to enter and it's littered with failures. (See Marcos, Jensen, Rossion, Noble, Farboud, MG, Weismann, err.... TVR, etc...……….). Aston Martin struggled for years as did Lotus with industry professionals at the helm. You can't do this with a shoestring budget and little expertise.
For perspective Land Rover just spent 1 billion pounds just on improving the Evoque, a product that has already sold over 600,000 units.
unrepentant said:
spagbogdog said:
Sorry..not with you ...
Can you direct me to this bit on the Accts..?
I can clearly see the Bridging Finance and the Welsh Govt loan coming in.
I’m pretty sure I can also see the trail of Depositors monies from 2016 onwards. This has increased..not decreased.
Need you to enlighten me please..???
The balance sheets are all that matters.Can you direct me to this bit on the Accts..?
I can clearly see the Bridging Finance and the Welsh Govt loan coming in.
I’m pretty sure I can also see the trail of Depositors monies from 2016 onwards. This has increased..not decreased.
Need you to enlighten me please..???
Balance sheet of TVR Automotive show total cash at bank of 11 pounds. That's 11 pounds. Balance sheet shows a positive position of 1.9 million pounds but that is propped up entirely by debtors of 7.8 million pounds which is principally money owed to it by TVR Manufacturing.
Balance sheet of TVR Manufacturing shows total cash at bank of 28,000 pounds. Balance sheet shows a negative position of 1.1 million pounds. What is more that position is supported by 9 million pounds of "Intangible assets". The company is a going concern only on the basis that it's parent won't ask for it's money back.
Show me where the $2 million of deposit holders money is. Show me where it's even mentioned. "Other creditors"? In my experience "other creditors" is not a great place to be.
Strip out the intangibles and this business looks like it's about 8 million quid in the hole with no cash, no product, no staff and no factory. In a fire sale what are the intangibles worth?
The automotive space costs a fortune to enter and it's littered with failures. (See Marcos, Jensen, Rossion, Noble, Farboud, MG, Weismann, err.... TVR, etc...……….). Aston Martin struggled for years as did Lotus with industry professionals at the helm. You can't do this with a shoestring budget and little expertise.
For perspective Land Rover just spent 1 billion pounds just on improving the Evoque, a product that has already sold over 600,000 units.
Which is it..?
The listed ‘intangible assets’ spiked from 2015 and has steadily increased thereafter. I would think that all deposits are included under this label...which would make sense.
I certainly wouldn’t label myself (deposit holder) as a Creditor.
You said TVR has no heritage.
Yet one of the very first tasks undertaken was to provide a genuine parts catalogue and supply/manufacture there-of. This demonstrates they are just as keen about keeping prior models on the road as they are about building the new one. Which surely reinforces long term customer loyalty, further enhances the brand and helps residual values.
I applaud them massively for this.
I want to be sure I can get parts in the future.
Reading some of your replies on the RR threads a lot of people are moaning re wait times for parts on cars that are less than 6 months old...thus I think comparing JLR to TVR is not a good example.
((..I do drive a RR atm..and am very happy with it..although it is leased. I do not have sufficient confidence to buy one. Unfortunately the history of poor after care and complete Dealer apathy put me off together with laughable residual values..))
I seem to remember Peter Wheeler having a lot of success on a pretty meagre budget. The so called ‘Golden era’. That era collapsed very sharply when build~quality and reliability were found to be wanting. Making their own engines was brave but ultimately very costly.
Putting a Ford engine (further enhanced by Cosworth) in a Gordon Murray designed chassis seems to me a very good recipe for success.
Govt as a stakeholder.
Factory scheduled in for 2019
Backed by a very credible financier..who by the way pride themselves on NEVER having a project fail.
All LE cars sold out.
I think they’ll be just fine.
Edited by spagbogdog on Sunday 9th December 07:31
spagbogdog said:
Lot's of stuff and............
.
All LE cars sold out.
I think they’ll be just fine.
Nothing like the supreme optimist .
All LE cars sold out.
I think they’ll be just fine.
Edited by spagbogdog on Sunday 9th December 07:31
They have not sold 500 cars, they don't have 500 cars to sell. They have 500 deposits which indicates a willingness to be on the waiting list.
Some of those deposit holders have already indicated they might want their money back if things don't change soon in a positive way
Many have said they will wait to see the finished car, if this ever happens, before they make a final decision to buy, so 500 cars they have not sold.
This is akin to telling your kids that the relationship they are in is toxic and won't work out and they continue to live in denial whilst in their heart of hearts they know it won't but don't want to admit it and lose face.
Then you get that dreaded knock on your door ..........................................
There is a big difference between optimism and realism.
Being a physicist by education I like facts.
There are two things visible to consumers that Les has achieved so far:
1. Massively improved the parts supply for older cars
2. Produced a running prototype of the new Griffith
I congratulate him for both achievements.
It certainly sounds as if at least some of the delay in production of the Griffith is down to factors beyond his control, but as consumers, we all have our ‘red lines’.
I placed a deposit back at the end of 2015 and after announcement that the contract for the Welsh factory was signed on 18th March 2016, was lead to believe delivery of my car would be in 2018. When it was obvious this was impossible and I was informed by TVR that they couldn’t give a revised date, I requested my deposit back.
There really is not much further to discuss at present. The looks of the car have been done to death as has the on-paper position of the company and the security of deposits. Probably time to close this thread and wait until there are facts to discuss!
There are two things visible to consumers that Les has achieved so far:
1. Massively improved the parts supply for older cars
2. Produced a running prototype of the new Griffith
I congratulate him for both achievements.
It certainly sounds as if at least some of the delay in production of the Griffith is down to factors beyond his control, but as consumers, we all have our ‘red lines’.
I placed a deposit back at the end of 2015 and after announcement that the contract for the Welsh factory was signed on 18th March 2016, was lead to believe delivery of my car would be in 2018. When it was obvious this was impossible and I was informed by TVR that they couldn’t give a revised date, I requested my deposit back.
There really is not much further to discuss at present. The looks of the car have been done to death as has the on-paper position of the company and the security of deposits. Probably time to close this thread and wait until there are facts to discuss!
"Probably time to close this thread and wait until there are facts to discuss!"
Why close it,many are enjoying it,you posted because you were reading it yourself so why deny yourself a bit of entertainment.I am now happily convinced this post will never end and will be the go to discussion even when/if the car ever makes it to production.
Monkeylegend said:
spagbogdog said:
Lot's of stuff and............
.
All LE cars sold out.
I think they’ll be just fine.
Nothing like the supreme optimist .
All LE cars sold out.
I think they’ll be just fine.
Edited by spagbogdog on Sunday 9th December 07:31
They have not sold 500 cars, they don't have 500 cars to sell. They have 500 deposits which indicates a willingness to be on the waiting list.
Some of those deposit holders have already indicated they might want their money back if things don't change soon in a positive way
Many have said they will wait to see the finished car, if this ever happens, before they make a final decision to buy, so 500 cars they have not sold.
This is akin to telling your kids that the relationship they are in is toxic and won't work out and they continue to live in denial whilst in their heart of hearts they know it won't but don't want to admit it and lose face.
Then you get that dreaded knock on your door ..........................................
There is a big difference between optimism and realism.
This is defamatory and serves no purpose...other than to stand in the queue of the "i told you so's".
I also pointed out his comment about heritage which seems completely unjustified.
Just because he may not like the car doesn't give him licence to make slanderous remarks and then rubbish the heritage.
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