Tamora in Britin's Best Drivers Car 2002 - Autocar
Discussion
quote:
yep, porsche gearbox did go at 49k and I was advised to do the clutch at the same time...but pcgb said very unusual, apologised and said they would no both at no charge even though car was out of main dealer warranty.
456 was fun, seemed to have lots of niggles thats why i sold it, but loosing £3k for 6,000 miles is not bad going when you think the first guy spent £120K for 12.
Flasher if you Tamora gets to 50k without any major engine, gearbox or diff work then hats off, respect - but be honest now how many times have you got panic'd when it starts making a funny noise etc?? (i've been with you at least twice..)
Bennno
>> Edited by bennno on Friday 30th August 14:52
Some fair points Ben, but you didn't lose £3000 did you?? Come clean it was more like £8K....
In 3 years and 30,000 miles in the Cerbera, I've have 1 'significant' failure per year, plus lots of niggles to keep me busy at weekends. In the previous 12 years of Porsche ownership, I had 1 'significant' failure each year on average [clutch, engine blow up, gearbox etc] plus lots of niggles to keep me busy at the weekends. None of my cars were bought new, and all have been treated in much the same way. I had a similar level of reliability/unreliability before that with BMWs. I know some folks that whatever they drive turns out to be utterly unreliable, and others whose cars always run like clockwork. I would never suggest TVRs are absolutely bulletproof [this year's glitch is the started motor...so far], but treated the same, I don't think they're much worse than anything else.
WB
WB
In The Sunday Times today, there is a mention of "The Tamora being the favourite car, until it blew up "
On a more positive note the newspaper is going to launch a car guide ( every week) and guess which car features on the front of the first edition and the adverts for the guide ?
Yep, its the Tuscan !
On a more positive note the newspaper is going to launch a car guide ( every week) and guess which car features on the front of the first edition and the adverts for the guide ?
Yep, its the Tuscan !
I was tempted to change the Griff for a Tuscan/Cerb a while back. But when the parts guy at a 'respected' main dealer warned me off due to unreliability & service costs, then one of the mechs said the same thing, I went off the idea.
Started thinking about it again recently, only to be told the same things about reliability by the collection/delivery driver & a mech at a specialist.
Now I know the driver may not know all the gory details - but he does know how many broken cars he picks up & how long they spend being fixed.
I really would love a Tuscan but just don't have the faith in the engine to spend 30K on the car.
Started thinking about it again recently, only to be told the same things about reliability by the collection/delivery driver & a mech at a specialist.
Now I know the driver may not know all the gory details - but he does know how many broken cars he picks up & how long they spend being fixed.
I really would love a Tuscan but just don't have the faith in the engine to spend 30K on the car.
Hmm
All this discussion about new cars and their engines leaves me crying in my ice cold beer.I too have not replaced my Chimaera with a Tuscan/Tamora following advice from a main dealer in the UK about the dangers of exporting such a car to Hong Kong. Without specialist attention I do not stand a hope of ever having one here and keep it on the road. Funny that there are a lot of other exotics running around here every day.
However, my decision was eclipsed earlier this year when I discovered that the chassis of my 1996 Chimaera had rusted from the inside out. As far as I am aware all TVR's, even the new ones, are made from the same steel tube system. Yes, it is humid here and yes,it was looked after but not by a so called main dealer; even so it should have lasted longer than 6 years.
So three months later and a new chassis fitted my car is up for sale. Will I replace it with another TVR? Perhaps if I had had some correspondance from Blackpool even only comiserating with me, then I could have been tempted. The Malaysian factory on the other hand have been brilliant in shipping to me, at cost, a new chassis and detailing the failures of the corrosion preventation methods employed by the Blackpool factory. I trust the newer TVR's are better protected against corrosion but can you be sure. I for one will not take the risk no matter how much noise and bangs per buck it promises.
If you wish to see the corrosion damage to my car then go to the Chimaera site and look for the thread of 'rusting chassis' and in one of the posts a member has kindly put the photos on a web site.
Gggrrr
All this discussion about new cars and their engines leaves me crying in my ice cold beer.I too have not replaced my Chimaera with a Tuscan/Tamora following advice from a main dealer in the UK about the dangers of exporting such a car to Hong Kong. Without specialist attention I do not stand a hope of ever having one here and keep it on the road. Funny that there are a lot of other exotics running around here every day.
However, my decision was eclipsed earlier this year when I discovered that the chassis of my 1996 Chimaera had rusted from the inside out. As far as I am aware all TVR's, even the new ones, are made from the same steel tube system. Yes, it is humid here and yes,it was looked after but not by a so called main dealer; even so it should have lasted longer than 6 years.
So three months later and a new chassis fitted my car is up for sale. Will I replace it with another TVR? Perhaps if I had had some correspondance from Blackpool even only comiserating with me, then I could have been tempted. The Malaysian factory on the other hand have been brilliant in shipping to me, at cost, a new chassis and detailing the failures of the corrosion preventation methods employed by the Blackpool factory. I trust the newer TVR's are better protected against corrosion but can you be sure. I for one will not take the risk no matter how much noise and bangs per buck it promises.
If you wish to see the corrosion damage to my car then go to the Chimaera site and look for the thread of 'rusting chassis' and in one of the posts a member has kindly put the photos on a web site.
Gggrrr
'I was tempted to change the Griff for a Tuscan/Cerb a while back. But when the parts guy at a 'respected' main dealer warned me off due to unreliability & service costs...'
Last year we had four Tuscans in our region. Now we have one. Owner 1 had so many problems the factory actually exchanged it for him - but the replacement is little better and owner is highly disgruntled. Owner 2 didn't like the idea of having a Tuscan out of warranty so swapped it for a Porsche. Owner 3, ditto, swapped it for a Ferrari and plans to revert to a Griffith next year. Owner 4 is lucky so far.
25% retention. Not a great story, is it?
Last year we had four Tuscans in our region. Now we have one. Owner 1 had so many problems the factory actually exchanged it for him - but the replacement is little better and owner is highly disgruntled. Owner 2 didn't like the idea of having a Tuscan out of warranty so swapped it for a Porsche. Owner 3, ditto, swapped it for a Ferrari and plans to revert to a Griffith next year. Owner 4 is lucky so far.
25% retention. Not a great story, is it?
TVR have been reading and dropped me a line with the following points:
- Tamora press car - a valve dropped. The chances of this happening are very, very small and they have only experienced this on three occasions including one race engine
- TVR are becoming the first car manufacturer to crack test every valve as it comes in.
- The engine was standard
- They've seen plenty of other manufacturers' cars suffer problems during magazine tests
- The finger follower problems have been sorted but there are some cars still out there with followers that could be subject to failure but it is not possible to predict which ones. For some time now the cars that have left Blackpool have been ok.
- They're not saying no engine will go wrong again, as they and their suppliers are human. All known problems have been sorted though.
Don't shoot the messenger
- Tamora press car - a valve dropped. The chances of this happening are very, very small and they have only experienced this on three occasions including one race engine
- TVR are becoming the first car manufacturer to crack test every valve as it comes in.
- The engine was standard
- They've seen plenty of other manufacturers' cars suffer problems during magazine tests
- The finger follower problems have been sorted but there are some cars still out there with followers that could be subject to failure but it is not possible to predict which ones. For some time now the cars that have left Blackpool have been ok.
- They're not saying no engine will go wrong again, as they and their suppliers are human. All known problems have been sorted though.
Don't shoot the messenger
PetrolTed said:
Good to know the lads in Blackpool are listening - this is actually very reassuring as I've heard many times that "TVR don't listen", "Peter Wheeler isn't bothered what his customers think/want", etc. IMO the fact that they have dropped Ted a line goes some way to contradicting this. Well done TVR, there's at least one owner that you've scored more brownie points with.
The Tamora engine failure doesn't sound too catastrophic in that it was a very rare type of failure, but it was upsetting to read that the throttle cable on the Tuscan S failed on the Paris Rendezvous trip. Upsetting because I've rarely read an article where a car came across as so exciting and so different to the existing 'molly coddling' supercar pack and this took the shine off it a little. However, I still intend to buy a Moonraker Black Tuscan S next year so it hasn't put me off!
Hopefully TVR realise that most of the people on this site are concerned because we want TVR to be giving Ferrari, Porsche, et al a damn good whopping and not because we want to criticise the marque for no good reason.
It would still be interesting to know how many engine failures they have been having over time (though realistically this is unlikely to happen as I'm not aware to any other manufacturer doing it) - as I originally said elsewhere it sounds like it's getting better with time, but the bad press feels like it's getting worse.
roadsweeper.
quote:
TVR have been reading and dropped me a line with the following points
Good to know the lads in Blackpool are listening - this is actually very reassuring as I've heard many times that "TVR don't listen", "Peter Wheeler isn't bothered what his customers think/want", etc. IMO the fact that they have dropped Ted a line goes some way to contradicting this. Well done TVR, there's at least one owner that you've scored more brownie points with.
The Tamora engine failure doesn't sound too catastrophic in that it was a very rare type of failure, but it was upsetting to read that the throttle cable on the Tuscan S failed on the Paris Rendezvous trip. Upsetting because I've rarely read an article where a car came across as so exciting and so different to the existing 'molly coddling' supercar pack and this took the shine off it a little. However, I still intend to buy a Moonraker Black Tuscan S next year so it hasn't put me off!
Hopefully TVR realise that most of the people on this site are concerned because we want TVR to be giving Ferrari, Porsche, et al a damn good whopping and not because we want to criticise the marque for no good reason.
It would still be interesting to know how many engine failures they have been having over time (though realistically this is unlikely to happen as I'm not aware to any other manufacturer doing it) - as I originally said elsewhere it sounds like it's getting better with time, but the bad press feels like it's getting worse.
roadsweeper.
quote:
IMO the fact that they have dropped Ted a line goes some way to contradicting this. Well done TVR, there's at least one owner that you've scored more brownie points with.
Hopefully TVR realise that most of the people on this site are concerned because we want TVR to be giving Ferrari, Porsche, et al a damn good whopping and not because we want to criticise the marque for no good reason.
Agree with all the above and then some. Always have loved TVR's always will, and will own one soon !! Just want them to be able to get in the position to stick two fingers up at the likes of Ferrari. Once they get the reputation or being reliable then they're sorted they've already got all the other points covered.
Great that TVR have been reading - I hope it is other than the regulars too, either way brownie points have been applied to their account.
~ If you are still reading, then please take this into account. I and I'd guess others here love the cars, I've spent loads of hard earned on them. I understand the issues that you must face when achieveing as much as TVR have done, BUT and it is a big one, I don't understand why you cannot be straight with at least this section of your clientelle. You do much of your testing through client experience, we all know that, so tell us there are gremlins, use our feedback with us as partners in this. I know I'll help just because I'd like to. Take advantage of what you do have, and then perhaps your PR will be better.
If an engine goes, tell us the truth about why, fix it quick, have spare ones - you know they go because there is a backlog to get them re-built and do it all with a smile and an apology, it goes a long way.
I don't believe for a moment that all the engine gremlins have been fixed, if that is the case why have you not acted like proper car makers and recalled all affected cars (actual or possible) for the necessary modifications to be fitted? Waiting for customers to have a failure is simply an apalling way to behave and can only be affecting your bottom line through poor ability to plan for repair times and faling sales.
This message is simple; treat your customers better, because right now the treatment I know some owners have had shocks me.
~ If you are still reading, then please take this into account. I and I'd guess others here love the cars, I've spent loads of hard earned on them. I understand the issues that you must face when achieveing as much as TVR have done, BUT and it is a big one, I don't understand why you cannot be straight with at least this section of your clientelle. You do much of your testing through client experience, we all know that, so tell us there are gremlins, use our feedback with us as partners in this. I know I'll help just because I'd like to. Take advantage of what you do have, and then perhaps your PR will be better.
If an engine goes, tell us the truth about why, fix it quick, have spare ones - you know they go because there is a backlog to get them re-built and do it all with a smile and an apology, it goes a long way.
I don't believe for a moment that all the engine gremlins have been fixed, if that is the case why have you not acted like proper car makers and recalled all affected cars (actual or possible) for the necessary modifications to be fitted? Waiting for customers to have a failure is simply an apalling way to behave and can only be affecting your bottom line through poor ability to plan for repair times and faling sales.
This message is simple; treat your customers better, because right now the treatment I know some owners have had shocks me.
Then why will the factory and PW not answer my letters, faxes and e-mails when I have a genuine problem? Even if they told me to bugger off it would be somthing. They might have possibly learnt somthing from my corrosion wrecked chassis, but no. However, I suspect that they already know of the corrosion problems with chassis from my era. The Malaysian factory does. I would even have sent it back to them for inspection. Nor have I asked for or expect any compensation or replacement parts. Their attitude is totally unacceptable and given that the factory and some members claim mitigation because they replied indirectly to another PH member, no matter how much street cred he has, just adds salt to the wound. I just think that they do not give a monkeys toss about their [once loyal ] customers. Do not get me wrong TVR's are great cars; pity about the after sales backup and total disregard to product loyal customers.
>> Edited by jim hobbs on Wednesday 4th September 03:37
>> Edited by jim hobbs on Wednesday 4th September 03:37
Lots of good points here so far, interesting reading.
First off, I'm prob not TVR's ideal customer as I drive a 10 year old model and don't use a main dealer for servicing. However I have always been a big fan of TVR and expect to remain so in the future. Do I have rose tinted glasses, I don't think so - it's just that the cars I've owned have been reliable, stonking fun and not depreciated that much.
I like the Tamora and really want it to suceed but would need some reassurance if I was going to spend that much money. From the conversations I've had and the things I've read there seems to be a very low percentage of owners who've had major problems and the issue is more of factory back up. Now assuming we only get one side of the story on here some of the time can any one from the factory provide info on the following;
Is the recent Tamora engine failure (Dicky's I think) the only Tamora to have the follower problem. If so why was there still a prob when we were told the supplier issue had been sorted following the Tuscan engine problems.
If some engines could still be affected what would need to be done to check in a recall? Can the suspect followers be identified by removing the cover? If so then a recall would be the best option as -
a/ It would show TVR take the issue seriously.
b/ Identifying the issue early and rectifying would be cheaper than an engine rebuild.
c/ Tamora owners would have peace of mind rather than waiting for bennno to snigger every time a noise is heard.
Comments welcomed, especially from Gaffer and the factory.
First off, I'm prob not TVR's ideal customer as I drive a 10 year old model and don't use a main dealer for servicing. However I have always been a big fan of TVR and expect to remain so in the future. Do I have rose tinted glasses, I don't think so - it's just that the cars I've owned have been reliable, stonking fun and not depreciated that much.
I like the Tamora and really want it to suceed but would need some reassurance if I was going to spend that much money. From the conversations I've had and the things I've read there seems to be a very low percentage of owners who've had major problems and the issue is more of factory back up. Now assuming we only get one side of the story on here some of the time can any one from the factory provide info on the following;
Is the recent Tamora engine failure (Dicky's I think) the only Tamora to have the follower problem. If so why was there still a prob when we were told the supplier issue had been sorted following the Tuscan engine problems.
If some engines could still be affected what would need to be done to check in a recall? Can the suspect followers be identified by removing the cover? If so then a recall would be the best option as -
a/ It would show TVR take the issue seriously.
b/ Identifying the issue early and rectifying would be cheaper than an engine rebuild.
c/ Tamora owners would have peace of mind rather than waiting for bennno to snigger every time a noise is heard.
Comments welcomed, especially from Gaffer and the factory.
Jim
I was not making any comment about whether TVR appropriately respond to individuals with problems with their cars.
I was simply saying that it is very unusual to have a car manufacturer respond to this type of forum, which I applaud.
If the factory have ignored your genuine concerns, then I can see why you feel aggrieved about an apparent willingness to contact PH, but not you.
Andy
I was not making any comment about whether TVR appropriately respond to individuals with problems with their cars.
I was simply saying that it is very unusual to have a car manufacturer respond to this type of forum, which I applaud.
If the factory have ignored your genuine concerns, then I can see why you feel aggrieved about an apparent willingness to contact PH, but not you.
Andy
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