1992 Pre cat fails MOT because computer says it needs one...
Discussion
bobfather said:
SMB said:
Can I ask where you have seen it written that the car cannot be driven away to a place of repair
For a 'major' the car cannot be driven on the public road once a 'major' failure has been identified. It doesn't say it can't be removed from the MOT garageFailing the MOT
If your vehicle fails the MOT:
you’ll get a ‘refusal of an MOT test certificate’ from the test centre
it will be recorded in the MOT database
You can appeal the result if you think it’s wrong.
Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.
If your MOT has run out you can take your vehicle to:
have the failed defects fixed
a pre-arranged MOT test appointment
As there is no such thing as a minor fail ( a minor leads to a pass), what's not defined is how you can take your vehicle......
I'm only considering major fails here as dangerous fails mean do not drive.
Edited by SMB on Thursday 10th May 14:46
Edited by SMB on Thursday 10th May 14:59
Grey area, how can you drive a car that requires immediate repair?
Dangerous
A direct and immediate risk to road safety or has a serious impact on the environment.
Do not drive the vehicle until it’s been repaired
Fail
Major
It may affect the vehicle’s safety, put other road users at risk or have an impact on the environment.
Repair it immediately.
Fail
Minor
No significant effect on the safety of the vehicle or impact on the environment.
Repair as soon as possible.
Pass
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-cha...
Dangerous
A direct and immediate risk to road safety or has a serious impact on the environment.
Do not drive the vehicle until it’s been repaired
Fail
Major
It may affect the vehicle’s safety, put other road users at risk or have an impact on the environment.
Repair it immediately.
Fail
Minor
No significant effect on the safety of the vehicle or impact on the environment.
Repair as soon as possible.
Pass
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-cha...
bobfather said:
Grey area, how can you drive a car that requires immediate repair?
Dangerous
A direct and immediate risk to road safety or has a serious impact on the environment.
Do not drive the vehicle until it’s been repaired
Fail
Major
It may affect the vehicle’s safety, put other road users at risk or have an impact on the environment.
Repair it immediately.
Fail
Minor
No significant effect on the safety of the vehicle or impact on the environment.
Repair as soon as possible.
Pass
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-cha...
Having read the MOT Testers forum they too aren't clear, the DVSA really haven't explained this hence why people are hearing different things, as testers are also interpreting it differently. From all thats written I think the aim is thatDangerous
A direct and immediate risk to road safety or has a serious impact on the environment.
Do not drive the vehicle until it’s been repaired
Fail
Major
It may affect the vehicle’s safety, put other road users at risk or have an impact on the environment.
Repair it immediately.
Fail
Minor
No significant effect on the safety of the vehicle or impact on the environment.
Repair as soon as possible.
Pass
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-cha...
Dangerous cars are advised as dangerous and told not to leave the test centre , these are in line with dangerous unroadworthy cars in the road traffic act.
Cars with major fails can only be driven back to a place of repair and not used until fixed and retested
Best I have found is this from Auto express.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/102431/mot-t...
New MoT fault categories: Minor, Major and Dangerous
The new Minor, Major and Dangerous categories will be applied to all cars, and are being introduced to meet a new EU directive, dubbed the European Union Roadworthiness Package. Neil Barlow, head of MoT policy for the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) told Auto Express the new categories would “help motorists do the right thing – IE not drive away from a garage. We’re changing the wording on the certificate”, Barlow said; “We’ve done a lot of research with motorists to find out what sort of information helps”.
One example of the new criteria, set out in a draft DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency) MoT guide, concerns steering: a steering box leaking oil would get a Minor fault; if the oil is leaking so badly as to be dripping, that would constitute a Major defect, causing the car to fail its MoT.
If the steering wheel itself, meanwhile, was so loose as to be “likely to become detached”, that would constitute a Dangerous failure, and the MoT certificate flag this up to the car’s owner with greater urgency. Barlow added that more explicit safety warnings would be included on certificates for cars with serious faults, with the Road Traffic Act and penalties for dangerous vehicles likely to be highlighted.
Eric Smith, MoT scheme manager at Kwik Fit, which carries out almost a million MoTs a year clarified that this would bring the terminology in line with the wording of the Road Traffic Act, “A Dangerous item means that vehicle should not be driven away from the garage,” adding: “Driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition is a criminal offence.”
I asked my friendly MOT tester about this a few weeks ago. He said “We MOT 26 cars a day and have two parking spaces. Hanging on to customer cars is not option. In the past when we have identified something dangerous we have explained this to the customer and pointed out that there is public parking nearby that they can use while they arrange for the car to be recovered. We will continue to do this”
jmn said:
Firstly many thanks for the sensible replies from the knowledgeable people.
My car's VIN confirms that it was never fitted with a CC.
It initially failed on 7.1.3, (CC missing where fitted as standard),
7.3.D.4, 7.3.D.3 (Emissions).
VOSA are investigating and the TVR CC Archivist may be able to assist.
One thing to bear in mind-under the new rules failing on emissions is a major defect and such a failure means that the vehicle cannot be driven away from the MOT Station.
Thanks also to Colin and Tina at TVRSSW who have been extremely helpful.
How did it pass if it failed on the first test? Has the system been updated?My car's VIN confirms that it was never fitted with a CC.
It initially failed on 7.1.3, (CC missing where fitted as standard),
7.3.D.4, 7.3.D.3 (Emissions).
VOSA are investigating and the TVR CC Archivist may be able to assist.
One thing to bear in mind-under the new rules failing on emissions is a major defect and such a failure means that the vehicle cannot be driven away from the MOT Station.
Thanks also to Colin and Tina at TVRSSW who have been extremely helpful.
jmn said:
Firstly many thanks for the sensible replies from the knowledgeable people.
My car's VIN confirms that it was never fitted with a CC.
It initially failed on 7.1.3, (CC missing where fitted as standard),
7.3.D.4, 7.3.D.3 (Emissions).
VOSA are investigating and the TVR CC Archivist may be able to assist.
One thing to bear in mind-under the new rules failing on emissions is a major defect and such a failure means that the vehicle cannot be driven away from the MOT Station.
Thanks also to Colin and Tina at TVRSSW who have been extremely helpful.
Just seen this thread, the TVR Car Club Archivist has not been contacted but we are interested in this as it may occur again in the next few months. Do you know who at VOSA is dealing with it?My car's VIN confirms that it was never fitted with a CC.
It initially failed on 7.1.3, (CC missing where fitted as standard),
7.3.D.4, 7.3.D.3 (Emissions).
VOSA are investigating and the TVR CC Archivist may be able to assist.
One thing to bear in mind-under the new rules failing on emissions is a major defect and such a failure means that the vehicle cannot be driven away from the MOT Station.
Thanks also to Colin and Tina at TVRSSW who have been extremely helpful.
So, at the test centre this morning and they put it through a cat test which obviously it wouldn’t pass. I explained that it didn’t have cats when new, wasn’t required to have them and that no TVR registered in 92 had cats. They explained that the computer gave no other option than to put it through a cat test. I then noticed that they had the date of first use as Aug 92. I asked them to change it to the correct date of April 92 and the computer then allowed a test without cats.
While that was good for me, it does suggest that anyone with a pre cat registered between Aug and Dec 92 is going to have a problem. Is this something the club can take up with VOSA?
While that was good for me, it does suggest that anyone with a pre cat registered between Aug and Dec 92 is going to have a problem. Is this something the club can take up with VOSA?
BIG DUNC said:
So, at the test centre this morning and they put it through a cat test which obviously it wouldn’t pass. I explained that it didn’t have cats when new, wasn’t required to have them and that no TVR registered in 92 had cats. They explained that the computer gave no other option than to put it through a cat test. I then noticed that they had the date of first use as Aug 92. I asked them to change it to the correct date of April 92 and the computer then allowed a test without cats.
While that was good for me, it does suggest that anyone with a pre cat registered between Aug and Dec 92 is going to have a problem. Is this something the club can take up with VOSA?
It is unfortunate for the MOT guys as they have to follow the computer now, however no excuse for VOSA for not getting them the right information. You were fortunate that you were allowed near the car during it's test as some garages are rigid about customers entering the workshop/test bay and observing from a window usually does not give you much of a view. While that was good for me, it does suggest that anyone with a pre cat registered between Aug and Dec 92 is going to have a problem. Is this something the club can take up with VOSA?
Well done you for being sharp enough to notice the failure reason, and this does need some lobbying to get it right and not cause other owners frustration and expensive unnecessary work to be carried out; I am sure this does not just apply to TVR owners either.
Sorry to come to this late - interesting posts. I have a 2001 Tuscan which has been decatted. My understanding was that although from a date manufacturers were required to install cats, it is not illegal to remove them or drive without. Passed its MOT recently. I have read the guidance and can find no reference to missing cats, only the appropriate testing of emissions for named pre or post cat date cars. If it passed its MOT this year under the old regime,can I assume that it would pass now? Or have the emission levels/tests been tightened?
jmn said:
My Nov 92 Precat Griff has just failed it's MOT at a TVR friendly garage because new DVLA software says it needs a catalytic converter!
Computer says that anything built after 1/7/92 must have a CC.
My Sept 92 K-reg 4.3 Precat has just been MOT'd by a non-TVR specialist garage and I didn't brief them on the emissions saga in advance. It did fail (temporarily until it was fixed) but only because the horn wasn't working.Computer says that anything built after 1/7/92 must have a CC.
So it seems there is significant variation in interpretation of the new MOT guidelines between different testing stations. There's no chance my car would pass a test to cat standards.
Simon
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff