TVR Chimaera 450S Turbo 2000 W176EOL

TVR Chimaera 450S Turbo 2000 W176EOL

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rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
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Rob, thanks very much for the post and your honesty. Something I think that is lacking in some people it seems.

I enquired with James about the car late on Friday night. He replied first thing on Saturday morning and after some discussions on Saturday I agreed in writing on Sunday to take the car. James acknowledged and accepted this.

It was just a question of how it was going to be paid for in my mind as I could use either my Chimaera + cash, or my Chimaera + 4200 + cash or if not a straight cash sale. Either were fine but James wanted to see my cars first which was fine. He gave me a price subject to seeing the cars if they were going to be used as part payment which I said i was happy with.

He mentioned on Saturday that he was travelling to London on Weds, staying over then could pop into me on the way out of London up to Norfolk on Thursday morning. I gave him my address my address and contact number and we arranged a time of circa 10am-11am. I confirmed on Sunday when I agreed to take the car that was all fine. I asked if he wanted me to send a deposit over to secure the car and his bank details and he ignored this.

He confirmed all of this on Monday morning and I was looking forward to his visit on Thursday morning. As far I was concerned at that point the car was mine, a deal was done and there was just a question of how I was going to pay for it.

I cannot blame you and have no issue at with you. I really appreciate you coming on here and saying how it went from your side. I don't think James has been clear with you that a deal was already done on the car. Maybe he felt a deal wasn't done I don't know. It seemed pretty clear to me and this was all confirmed in writing by e-mail.

For me it was a kind of once in a lifetime/car opportunity I guess for me so that is the most disappointing thing. Something like this is unlikely to appear again or certainly any time soon I expect. If James had been honest and upfront this all could have been avoided and dealt with correctly. The first I heard of anything different to what I had agreed with James on Sat/Sun/Mon Am was when he called me late on Tuesday night to tell me he was sorry but he had sold the car to someone else.

I'll drop you a PM with my number/details and maybe we can have a chat. I realise you have had a very long day after a very earlier start so tonight or tomorrow is fine. I certainly don't want to upset you or your ownership of the car. Or tarnish what I am sure is a very lovely moment for you.

Edited by rockits on Wednesday 14th August 21:35

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
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robsco said:
I’m going to turn in for the night, I’ll catch up with your PM tomorrow. Unfortunately the transaction isn’t quite as straightforward as it seems as there was a part exchange I’ve taken a loss on. We can chat anyway Dean, I’ll talk you through it then and we can see where we stand.
Of course no problem at all and much appreciated. I hope I haven't upset your nights sleep but I suspect after a 4:30am start you'll be away with the fairies soon enough wink

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
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N7GTX said:
Hope this works out well for you both.

BTW, having looked at both your garages, are you identical twins? hehe
Thanks, I am not sure it can now but we shall see.

Not that I know of.....Rob has a very nice Chimaera 450 Turbo which is something lacking in my garage at the moment weeping

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
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Quick update. I've had some contact kindly from Rob this morning and also just spoken with James @ Greenside Cars.

Rob has kindly offered me the car for £10k more than I had already done a deal for with Greenside. Obviously a gesture......but not one that is going to work as the car is just not worth that kind of money. It would be hard to spend 40% more on the same car just for the sake of a few days. It seems Rob is losing money on the Sagaris he traded in to Greenside so would like to offset that if I took the car. It means I'm effectively taking Rob's hit on the Sagaris which just isn't going to work.

It seems James @ Greenside cars has misinterpreted, misunderstand or presumed some things that aren't quite accurate. Instead of picking up the phone and clarifying he chose not to. There is not much I could have done about this as I didn't know there was an issue and had no idea Rob was now enquiring on the car. I was blissfully unaware whilst believing all was progressing and hoping to be the owner of a very nice TVR in the next week.

Rob was very quick to do a deal then collect the car from James. That appealed to Greenside even though he has had to take in an expensive car maybe £50k more than the car he was selling. Seems odd to me but that is what it is.

Even James commented that he found it odd that he had hardly any interest in the 450 for ages. Then all of a sudden I come along to buy the car then a 2nd person comes along only a day later suddenly to buy the car quickly. He would have been happy to continue with our deal if Rob had not have come along.

I think I have possibly been a bit too naive, trusting and too slow although not sure how much quicker I could have been. I don't know what else to think or say. Things happen for a reason just not sure what this one is yet.

Edited by rockits on Thursday 15th August 18:02

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
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You might be right to look at the SC car but it would only save me £6k compared to what I had agreed on Mac's 450 😉

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
I'm not a fan of the under bonnet installation of the SC as it looks a little busy and untidy.

Maybe I'll just keep what I have for a while until something interesting or wortgwhile comes along. Just temporarily lost my TVR for the moment.

I've lost a lot of time on cars this week with the 450 debacle, a 4200 I'm selling and scanning all my Chin's history took ages.

Got to save and reorganise it all as a PDF now. Just seems silly to sell my Chimaera as I like it, it drives well and to sell at circa 12k seems hardly worth it if I have nothing to replace it with.

I think you are right that the not so good ones will get worse and the better ones will stay that way. I don't see any of them moving north though price wise any time soon. Just currently seems to be too much supply and less demand. We all know what that means.

Need to sleep on it.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Friday 16th August 2019
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I'm still here you know. Talk about rubbing salt in the wounds. Just saying.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Friday 16th August 2019
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N7GTX said:
Thanks. Yup, seen this one. Bargain wink

I am not so sure if all the happenings of this week haven't been for good reason. I have never ever seen a car market so flat as it is. Not much is selling and is being advertised for months and sometimes one year plus and re-advertised time and again. The only cars that seem to be selling are sold silly cheap.

I'm not so sure that I am better off holding fire like it seems the rest of the country seem to be doing. I have really never seen it like this.

If you are brave enough there are some great deals to be had. I've been offered a nice 2017 McLaren 570s for £85k a nice 2017 AM DB11 for £83k and a nice 2013 AM Rapide for £41k. All seem to be much cheaper than I would have expected them to be.

Not sure if people are getting nervous, prices are falling, a correction is happening or people just holding fire with not much confidence. Weird times.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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sapper said:
I have a 4l turbo for sale and a 4.6 engine which has been built for a turbo. Rather than adding a turbo to a V8. Not installed yet, so you could install and put your own mark on it. Just a thought. Give me a shout if your interested.
Thanks Sapper. I'll drop you a line.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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macdeb said:
Cool, so glad that you like it. Hopefully you'll look after it and treat it with respect, it can bite. Have fun driving
PS sorry Dean cry
Thanks Mac. No worries. Not your doing.

I think the double kick in the balls for me is that not only did I lose out on a lovely car but I 2 cars going in reverse that would have saved me a lot of time and hassle. If Rob hadn't have come along at the 11th hour suddenly there was no other deals or enquiries on the table and James @ Greenside was happy with the only deal he had until then.

I think I'll keep my bright ideas, thoughts and deals to myself next time. Which kind of goes against what these forums are all about really.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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robsco said:
As I stated to Dean initially, I hadn’t read the thread... I just enquired on a car and made a decision, which any interested party had 10 months to do.
Rob, it is all done, I'm good, I've had a very good few nights sleep and am over it.

You don't need to apologise or explain. You have told me how it happened and I trust/believe you 100%.

I just like to learn from my mistakes and this is the only reason I like to understand how things went. Only so I can learn and do things different to prevent issues if there was a similar situation in the future. I can't change history.

I work in the IT/tech world so always analyse why things didn't go as they should have done. It is the way we as humans learn, improve and do better next time.

Enjoy the car 😉

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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RUSSELLM said:
Just realised this thread is Four months old smile

Unlucky this time, but there’s always something else out there.
Indeed, crazy. Never realised that. Shame Rob didn't see it originally as it could have saved him lots of financial pain on his Sag.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
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robsco said:
rockits said:
RUSSELLM said:
Just realised this thread is Four months old smile

Unlucky this time, but there’s always something else out there.
Indeed, crazy. Never realised that. Shame Rob didn't see it originally as it could have saved him lots of financial pain on his Sag.
You’re right there! laugh
Worth the pain though. Funnily enough your loss is pretty much the same amount I have saved by not upgrading my Chimaera yet!

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
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Well it has been just about a week since my TVR world was turned upside down by losing out on Mac's very special Chimaera. I felt I had to put fingers to keyboard maybe in an attempt at a therapy session to help me get over this debacle. I thought I was over this or could get over it easily enough as I always do get over disappointments. Either a week has not been enough or I'm kidding myself. I am far from over this in reality.

I have picked out two possible alternatives in Mick's (Sapper) 400 Turbo and Mark Hunter's (CHIMV8 500) old Red 500. They are both advertised at the same price and both seem great options. I had a great chat with Mick last night and he seems a lovely guy. The seller of the Red 500 is away a lot and it has been very hard to arrange a simple viewing. As the two are within 30 mins of each other in Nottinghamshire and I am best part of 6 hours round trip away it makes sense to arrange to drive my Chimaera up to see both so I can compare all 3 and see which if the two would feel better for me.

Mick's is obviously a great example but I would need to do something to the interior as green is not something my eyes appreciate. The outside I think I can live with although it wouldn't be my first choice. I like the Mk3 lights and the Speed 12 alloys. Not 100% sure about a 400 Turbo but would need to drive it as I have never driven one. I might well love it. It has been loved, lavished, cherished and obviously is a great example. You never get 100% smack you in the face perfection but the interior can be changed.

The Red 500 is again obviously a great example now after all of Mark's works on the car. I am really not a fan of Formula Red on a Chimaera so that would mean a slight colour change/respray. Strangely enough I do like some darker pearl reds like Candy Apple Red and the like so a respray would be needed at some point but not a complete colour change as it would need to match the specific interior. Everything else is good. I don't mind the Mk1 original look although my preference is Mk2 with Speed 6 lights as I have already got!

I have spent time again getting myself to a point that I want to replace my perfectly nice 400 with an example a little bit further up the food chain as it were. I have to be honest with myself now as I am really not over missing out on Mac's old car and actually far far from it. When I said you never get perfection and there are some compromises. Now and again there is sometimes an exception. For me and my personal tastes/desires Mac's car was perfect. I do mean perfect.....I wouldn't change a thing.

I am naturally a fan of blue sports cars and think the Chimaera looks great in blues especially ones like Viper Blue. My first Chimaera was a Ferrari Chiaro Blue. I loved all of these things about Mac's car. The colour Starmist Blue, the hood being blue, the Spiders, the Speed 6 front end, the magnolia/blue interior, the alcantara dash top, door panels & steering wheel insert. Obviously everything mechanically on the car was spot on. The engine bay is a work of art. I love it's classic originality mixed with a modern updated twist. It was a late 2000 car with only 20k miles.

Everything about the car for me was spot on. I would not have changed a single thing. It was perfect. When I hear that Rob (robsco) straight away wants to change the alcantara dash top and steering wheel insert and the plastic magnolia bits, the 3 stage steering wheel buttons etc. and maybe more it breaks my heart. I would leave it exactly as it is. Testament to Mac and his abilities, skill and creative vision. It should be applauded and respected IMHO. However each to their own and everybody is different of course.

I had seen it some time ago and discounted it as couldn't justify the price to my head. When I enquired again 12 days ago and James @ Greenside offered me the deal he did I though I had just won the lottery. All my moons aligned and I couldn't believe I was going to own my perfect (and I mean perfect) TVR that I knew I would own forever until my days would end. I couldn't wait until James was to visit me on the Thursday to confirm he was happy taking my cars in part exchange. I wanted to just drive them up to him and get the deal done but I waited patiently knowing he was coming down to London anyway.

I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and some bad judgement calls and this was one that I really don't know how long I will live to regret. To be effectively 24 hours away from your perfect TVR and have your automotive world turned upside down is a horrible horrible feeling. I can't really concentrate on my work, have lost all my motivation temporarily and it has really affected me. How or why I don't know....it is only a car right?! I still don't know how or why this could happen and still don't think it has fully sunk in.

The price I was paying for the car was spot on, the part exchanges were saving me a ton of potential hassle, the price in return worked perfectly, the car was perfect. Every single little detail was perfect about the deal. I cannot compute or come to terms how this didn't happen. How did I get this wrong or mess up the automotive deal potentially of a lifetime?!

My question and therapy assistance needed. How the h3ll do you get over that?! How can a rational sensible human be feeling this way.....about a car....it is just a car right?!

Sorry all but I felt I need to get this all out there to see if anyone else has been in the same position. I need to get over this and am finding it very hard at the moment.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
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Byker28i said:
When I bought my Cerbera I'd been chasing a car/sorting money then it stopped being for sale. The 3 months later mine came along, which I've now had for 13 years. Somethings are meant to be that you don't always know immediately.

Forget the past and move on, you're in a buyers market currently, wait for the car you want....it'll be worth it
Thanks....we will see what the future holds I guess.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
robsco said:
rockits said:
Everything about the car for me was spot on. I would not have changed a single thing. It was perfect. When I hear that Rob (robsco) straight away wants to change the alcantara dash top and steering wheel insert and the plastic magnolia bits, the 3 stage steering wheel buttons etc. and maybe more it breaks my heart. I would leave it exactly as it is. Testament to Mac and his abilities, skill and creative vision. It should be applauded and respected IMHO. However each to their own and everybody is different of course.
You could look it at it from another angle. Consider that the amount of work and vision Mac has put into the mechanicals, it is far beyond what most of us are capable of. Therefore the interior, which in my eyes is not quite finished, is the next step towards finishing the car. The steering wheel buttons could be mounted on the rear of the steering wheel, much more tidily, as per the trip computer buttons on T350s/Sags.

The magnolia on the dash and centre console is too yellow, and it's vinyl not leather. We all know how poor the TVR vinyl was, it cheapens the car; this isn't Mac's fault, the car was supplied new this way. The dash top is a different blue to the rearmost section by the windscreen, they are also two different materials so clash with each other. The door cards could be improved further by using leather. The stitching is all white and would look better contrasting blue against the blue carpets, which I intend to keep (but replace as the car has been letting water in at some stage). The dash veneer is cracking around the heater controls, therefore would benefit from a replacement dash.

I haven't finalised colour choices etc at this stage as there are so many options. The one thing I know is that the car will be trimmed by ex-TVR employees, whether it be DC Trim or someone else local to Blackpool.
Sorry Rob. No disrespect intended or meant. This is a thread that I started. My latest post was to get some help to assist me in getting over the disappointment of losing out on the car. I didn't ask for your input or thoughts on what you thought of the cars spec or build. Nor for your thoughts on what you were doing with it. None of this is really helping.

May I suggest you start a new thread of your own unrelated to this one as your thoughts or opinions are not helping. They are also not relevant to what I am asking or trying to achieve here. In fact you are making it worse for me. This really isn't helpful to me and isn't what I need at the moment.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
It could always be worse, there's a thread in Speed, Plod and Law where a guy is being sued £2k because he sold his Griff to another buyer...
I do have some sympathy with Buyer A in this case of the Griffith. I had considered litigation but not having much success with solicitors in the past I didn't think it was such a great idea. The litigation would of course be against James @ Greenside Cars. The original deal was agreed in writing by e-mail and I have all of these e-mails with the negotiations, offers and agreement to the deal.

If it were me I accepted the first offer/deal and would honour it. James Greenside Cars chose not to. Also chose not even to contact me until after a 2nd deal was done. There was no option for me to match the deal. In a sense it is even worse than the Griffith deal quoted that I have only briefly just scanned over.

I think it is a very dangerous legal game and a Pandora's Box to open for sellers to play buyers off against each other or start accepting deals then reneging on them. Especially as a dealer rather than a private individual. I would never do this as the complications potentially have far reaching short, medium and long term consequences than the potential small potential short term gains realised initially.

There is a way to treat people and situations. In my honest opinion this was not the way it should have been dealt with. I am not saying this as crying over spilt milk or because I lost out.

It was wrong in my opinion.....morally.....and possibly legally. Question is should I try to find out??

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
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Byker28i said:
It's up to you, but personally I wouldn't. It would eat me up too much.
I'd just be positive, accept it wasn't meant to be and theres another car waiting somewhere... biggrin
I do agree with you to a point. However I don't see another car like this around the corner at £25k any time soon. Also I had sold my Chimaera & 4200 as part of the deal as well so the amount of time and money lost starts to add up. With the deal done and only being 24 hours away from it fully put to bed, so going from being so close to where I wanted to be and now so far away now is hard.

I have tried to forget about it and move on but am currently really struggling with it.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
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robsco said:
Dean, politely, I think it's about time you snapped out of this rut because it's coming across totally ridiculous now. A forum is a meeting of like minded people discussing a particular topic that we are enthusiastic about; this thread is about W176EOL, so why wouldn't I be entitled to offer my views? I was responding directly to you namedropping me, and my reply was purely based on the car and my views on it (nothing on a personal level) and neither did it at any point take away from what Mac achieved with the car.

I do feel sympathy that you have taken this experience so badly but it's starting to wear thin, particularly after I took the time to post on here in the first instance, also spoke with you for 30 minutes on the telephone, and also even offered you the chance to purchase the car, admittedly at a higher price so it didn't penalise me financially. If the thread about this car blunders into a debate about suing a motor trader who sold a car from under you, without a signed contract or without either party meeting in person, or either party viewing each other's goods, then that would be a real shame and an insult to the car. I might argue that if you want to discuss legal action, then that would be best on an alternative forum, and not one discussing W176EOL.
Unfortunately it is quite easy for you to say this Rob as you are not the one it has caused an issue to. I think you are being a little insensitive or showing a slight lack of understanding though. It clearly means a lot more to me than it does to you so we will have to agree to differ on this. I can't change how I feel about it easily although I have tried.

I really am not bothered if you feel it is wearing a little too thin for you. If it is causing you such an issue please don't read the thread. It is optional and I am not forcing you to endure the annoyance of reading it. I thanked you for you kindness in calling and speaking to me on the phone. I also thanked you for your kind offer to sell the car to me. I don't have any issue with you Rob so it would be nice if you could stop having issues with me. I really haven't done much wrong here that I can see.

For the record I am not looking to litigate against yourself in any way as you have clearly done nothing legally wrong here. That is not in question. The litigation would clearly be against Greenside Cars for offering a deal, having it accepted, then reneging on this deal to do a deal suddenly with another 3rd party without my knowledge.

I had sold my Chimaera & 4200 in part exchange as part of the deal. I now need to go to the time, effort, expense and hassle of selling these two cars.

I don't believe I am insulting a car by discussing this situation and asking for other people's opinions and advice. I am not a solicitor or lawyer and was merely asking and gauging opinion as to what others would do in my shoes.

rockits

Original Poster:

785 posts

163 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
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Thanks for that ray von.