New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
LucyP said:
Gazzab - Nice try, but not a prayer. Just before Thomas Cook went down people were worried about the media stories and being told - just go to the airport, everything is fine. When they got there, it was far from fine.
You are not being induced to enter into a contract, which is what the law recognises.
You are being induced to stay in a contract, under false pretence. You are not being induced to enter into a contract, which is what the law recognises.
They have also had 3 mil. Of public money, don't forget. So outright lies shouldn't be tolerated.
crosseyedlion said:
LucyP said:
Gazzab - Nice try, but not a prayer. Just before Thomas Cook went down people were worried about the media stories and being told - just go to the airport, everything is fine. When they got there, it was far from fine.
You are not being induced to enter into a contract, which is what the law recognises.
You are being induced to stay in a contract, under false pretence. You are not being induced to enter into a contract, which is what the law recognises.
They have also had 3 mil. Of public money, don't forget. So outright lies shouldn't be tolerated.
You might argue it was a stupid idea to begin with, but you could equally have argued in its favour. It's all easy in hindsight.
baconsarney said:
Hayek said:
If they've got 2 years before much is happening, maybe they could fix the terrible dashboard in the meantime.
Or the front.Or the back.
baconsarney said:
Hayek said:
If they've got 2 years before much is happening, maybe they could fix the terrible dashboard in the meantime.
Or the front.Or the back.
Imagine if Aston Martin launched a car which had a front design, which many loyal existing customers did not like.
Anyway, that should not matter, because the Company want new, different, younger customers.
Oops, they ended up 'giving' them away during December. No deposit, free servicing, free first road tax, use it for 2 years and then give it back.
If the front of the new TVR has been criticised by TVR customers, then Les ought to take that seriously.
If a business gives customers what they want, it usually works better.
The Nige said:
From the article - Mr Edgar said all 500 of the launch edition cars have all been pre-sold, with deposits paid.Ah well, they must have re-sold mine along with everyone else’s that cancelled. Unless that’s a porkie-pie...
tvrolet said:
From the article - Mr Edgar said all 500 of the launch edition cars have all been pre-sold, with deposits paid.
Ah well, they must have re-sold mine along with everyone else’s that cancelled. Unless that’s a porkie-pie...
...’once the company had raised the finance it needed to make the cars’Ah well, they must have re-sold mine along with everyone else’s that cancelled. Unless that’s a porkie-pie...
Same old. They’ve lost the initiative now and this is only being reported because they’re looking so bad from lack of updates.
The Nige said:
Looks like Les is blaming the delays on the welsh government. I guess he is hoping to buy more time before having to repay the loan. 509 deposits my arse.
crosseyedlion said:
I sound like a stuck record.
Again they're totally ignoring the fact the factory itself is just a piece of the puzzle. Everything else could be ready by now whilst waiting for the factory. It's total obfuscation.
Agreed. They can assemble a few cars per month in a relatively small unit without all the bells and whistles. Again they're totally ignoring the fact the factory itself is just a piece of the puzzle. Everything else could be ready by now whilst waiting for the factory. It's total obfuscation.
Except as Mr Edgar has admitted to the BBC, he needs to raise the money to start building the car.
He had £2m of public money, he had (we assume) at one stage 500+ deposits. Surely once he'd built the first car (unless it used all that money to build) he should have SVA'd it and started producing cars at his smaller facility with the cash. Then as cars were produced and delivered, he could have expanded into the Techboard factory.
Now he just looks desperate using the car as a prop to a load of people rattling buckets outside Tesco. Or the business funding equivalent.
It's dreadfully sad to see the death throes of NewCo. Notwithstanding and ugly car.
He had £2m of public money, he had (we assume) at one stage 500+ deposits. Surely once he'd built the first car (unless it used all that money to build) he should have SVA'd it and started producing cars at his smaller facility with the cash. Then as cars were produced and delivered, he could have expanded into the Techboard factory.
Now he just looks desperate using the car as a prop to a load of people rattling buckets outside Tesco. Or the business funding equivalent.
It's dreadfully sad to see the death throes of NewCo. Notwithstanding and ugly car.
Tyre Smoke said:
Except as Mr Edgar has admitted to the BBC, he needs to raise the money to start building the car.
He had £2m of public money, he had (we assume) at one stage 500+ deposits. Surely once he'd built the first car (unless it used all that money to build) he should have SVA'd it and started producing cars at his smaller facility with the cash. Then as cars were produced and delivered, he could have expanded into the Techboard factory.
Now he just looks desperate using the car as a prop to a load of people rattling buckets outside Tesco. Or the business funding equivalent.
It's dreadfully sad to see the death throes of NewCo. Notwithstanding and ugly car.
FFSHe had £2m of public money, he had (we assume) at one stage 500+ deposits. Surely once he'd built the first car (unless it used all that money to build) he should have SVA'd it and started producing cars at his smaller facility with the cash. Then as cars were produced and delivered, he could have expanded into the Techboard factory.
Now he just looks desperate using the car as a prop to a load of people rattling buckets outside Tesco. Or the business funding equivalent.
It's dreadfully sad to see the death throes of NewCo. Notwithstanding and ugly car.
There is no funding. No. Funding.
So how in gods name is he going to fund this magical ‘small facility’ which just happens to be nearby and has free labour and plant?
What would that cost to do? £1m, £2m? A huge abortive cost to turn out cars with no dealer network or warranty and at a loss per car as all the parts are bought in tiny numbers.
I’m sorry but to tout this as a ‘why doesn’t he..’ is just clueless. In fact as clueless as the ‘Les please change the dash design’.
Until there is funding there is no car, will be no car and will be no production of any front end or dash design!
What on earth don’t people get about business and economics???
V6 Pushfit said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Except as Mr Edgar has admitted to the BBC, he needs to raise the money to start building the car.
He had £2m of public money, he had (we assume) at one stage 500+ deposits. Surely once he'd built the first car (unless it used all that money to build) he should have SVA'd it and started producing cars at his smaller facility with the cash. Then as cars were produced and delivered, he could have expanded into the Techboard factory.
Now he just looks desperate using the car as a prop to a load of people rattling buckets outside Tesco. Or the business funding equivalent.
It's dreadfully sad to see the death throes of NewCo. Notwithstanding and ugly car.
FFSHe had £2m of public money, he had (we assume) at one stage 500+ deposits. Surely once he'd built the first car (unless it used all that money to build) he should have SVA'd it and started producing cars at his smaller facility with the cash. Then as cars were produced and delivered, he could have expanded into the Techboard factory.
Now he just looks desperate using the car as a prop to a load of people rattling buckets outside Tesco. Or the business funding equivalent.
It's dreadfully sad to see the death throes of NewCo. Notwithstanding and ugly car.
There is no funding. No. Funding.
So how in gods name is he going to fund this magical ‘small facility’ which just happens to be nearby and has free labour and plant?
What would that cost to do? £1m, £2m? A huge abortive cost to turn out cars with no dealer network or warranty and at a loss per car as all the parts are bought in tiny numbers.
I’m sorry but to tout this as a ‘why doesn’t he..’ is just clueless. In fact as clueless as the ‘Les please change the dash design’.
Until there is funding there is no car, will be no car and will be no production of any front end or dash design!
What on earth don’t people get about business and economics???
And you underestimate the margin per car for the enterprise. It'd still turn a profit.
Regarding warranties, it needs a certain amount per car putting by. The amount would be dictated by the durab testing. Which they haven't done.
Gazzab said:
The Nige said:
Looks like Les is blaming the delays on the welsh government. I guess he is hoping to buy more time before having to repay the loan. 509 deposits my arse.
Over 500 deposits too?
If £2m gets you a 3% stake , that implies TVR is worth £66m .
Who the hell would pay that for a non existent company ?
I feel the Welsh Labour Government should be called to account for a reckless use of Tax payers money
.
Obviously Les Edgar didn't appear on "Dragons Den" … although his rejection would have been amusing
Who the hell would pay that for a non existent company ?
I feel the Welsh Labour Government should be called to account for a reckless use of Tax payers money
.Obviously Les Edgar didn't appear on "Dragons Den" … although his rejection would have been amusing
crosseyedlion said:
There is already the network of tvr specialists.
And you underestimate the margin per car for the enterprise. It'd still turn a profit.
Regarding warranties, it needs a certain amount per car putting by. The amount would be dictated by the durab testing. Which they haven't done.
Well there’s a few places that sell cars with the same intials so that’s handy if someone needs a badge replaced but beyond that?And you underestimate the margin per car for the enterprise. It'd still turn a profit.
Regarding warranties, it needs a certain amount per car putting by. The amount would be dictated by the durab testing. Which they haven't done.
In regard to the other point about profit per car, they would be running at a loss it would take years to recoup the abortive investment.
But that’s all a bit irrelevant as there IS no funding
V6, in my defence I never mentioned funding. I questioned what he has done with circa £5m (Welsh money and 500+ deposits) apart from put some stickers on a Rebellion?
At some point he had sufficient funding to make something. Now, it is blindingly obvious there is no money. It's all gone.
They are touting the car and rattling buckets in a last desperate throw of the dice.
At some point he had sufficient funding to make something. Now, it is blindingly obvious there is no money. It's all gone.
They are touting the car and rattling buckets in a last desperate throw of the dice.
I keep reading "why don't they build some in a shed somewhere and SVA them" threads. SVA test finished years ago - the test was toughened up somewhat and renamed IVA test. I also read that the final testing must be done on a car produced on the production line ( I assume tests like airbags, anti lock brakes and the like) - this surely would not be allowed if the car submitted for testing was built in a shed and not the planned factory. Personally, I am not a fan of the dashboard as I would much prefer analog dials, but having seen the car at the Goodwood launch would be quite happy to order the car, if I was in a position to do so. Yes, a few years have passed and a refresh of stying would be nice, but I can't see that happening before the car eventually goes on sale. Hopefully, the car gets the final go-ahead, passes the necessary testing and gets built and more importantly, sold and seen out and about on the roads and they can then work on a convertible version. I think as they are trying for a wider market than TVR of old, the car has to look more "normal" than T350/Sagaris/Tamora etc ( as much as we all love them ) . Hopefully , future models will be a bit wilder in style and more TVR like but they need to make money first before that can happen. Looking at sales figures of old, the best selling model ( Chimaera ) was the most "normal " looking model. Sagaris sold in tiny numbers and very slowly, some even being finished after the company closed.
Tyre Smoke said:
V6, in my defence I never mentioned funding. I questioned what he has done with circa £5m (Welsh money and 500+ deposits) apart from put some stickers on a Rebellion?
At some point he had sufficient funding to make something. Now, it is blindingly obvious there is no money. It's all gone.
They are touting the car and rattling buckets in a last desperate throw of the dice.
Its easy if poorly managed. Purely as an example... At some point he had sufficient funding to make something. Now, it is blindingly obvious there is no money. It's all gone.
They are touting the car and rattling buckets in a last desperate throw of the dice.
There's probably 5 people at least on the payroll. Costing the business 50-100k a year each. Premesis 30k per year ish. General running costs ish 10k per year. That's 540k per year
4 years of that is £2.16m.
Getting gm and cosworth to do some very basic development and deliver the 1 car, 1 million.
That's already busting through the 3m loan and the deposits are apparently returnable. I don't know how much they put in to start but my guess is theyre either going into deposit money or will be soon.
Then there's the rebellion sponsorship too.
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