Discussion
griff2be said:
3) The key to all of this is keeping the car, particularly the metal bits, at the same, or slightly higher temperature than the air in the garage. Problems arise when the temperature in the garage rises faster than the chassis, as moisture will then condense on the car.
I have been looking into buying a six foot 300Watt industrial tubular heater which costs about £24.00. I intended to slide the tube directly under the chassis, which allows the heat to rise along the full 6 ft. The purchase cost is low and running costs approx £5 a week (if on continuously).
Has any one eles done this?
Steve
My dad has one in his garage to protect the Grand Prix car. It takes about 4 litres a week out of the air and he no longer has to WD40 metal tools to stop corrosion. It works in conjunction with a night storage heater he has in there to keep the temp above freezing. It's a cheapie domestic dehumidifier from B&Q and it works great, only issue is it has a tank to empty, but you could wall mount it and run a tube out of a window or hole in the wall / down the sink I guess.
Roop
Roop
Does anyone use a dehumidifier in their garage to keep their Tiv free from damp?
I have an unheated timber garage with a bare concrete floor. I intend to paint the floor to stop moisture rising up through it, but I'm still concerned about condensation in there.
I went in the other day and the chassis was covered in condensation (although I did have some moisture getting in under the doors which I have now sorted out with a french drain). I use the car at weekends and every now and again during the week - and I will continue to do so over the winter.
I'm not sure whether just putting a greenhouse heater in there would do the job?
I know I would need a dehumdifier with hot gas defrost so it will work down to freezing point. Does anyone have any experience of these things they can share? How effective are they versus a small heater?
Thanks
Andy
fatbuttfast said:
I have been looking into buying a six foot 300Watt industrial tubular heater which costs about £24.00. I intended to slide the tube directly under the chassis, which allows the heat to rise along the full 6 ft. The purchase cost is low and running costs approx £5 a week (if on continuously).
Has any one eles done this?
Steve
Steve, I'd be interested to know how you get on with this. I was thinking about getting one of those electric "greenhouse heaters" (which sound like a smaller version of what you're after) and somehow connecting it to a thermostat to come on below (say) 8 deg.
Incidentally, I already have a painted floor and dehumidifier, as well as a "brush" style draft-excluder under the up-n-over. I have noticed a vsat improvement in condensation since installing these in my (brick) garage.
Edit: Perhaps I want something like this:
www.tubeheat.co.uk/tubeheat.html
>> Edited by whatever on Wednesday 20th November 13:57
whatever said:
Incidentally, I already have a painted floor and dehumidifier, as well as a "brush" style draft-excluder under the up-n-over. I have noticed a vsat improvement in condensation since installing these in my (brick) garage.
Edit: Perhaps I want something like this:
www.tubeheat.co.uk/tubeheat.html
>>
Ill let you know how I get on
Thats the sort of heater I have been looking at and with the thermostat switching it off and on as you state is just the ticket. It sounds like we have similar garages as every thing you have done I have also just done (except the de-humidifier part). You can buy the heaters and control thermostats from any electrical wholesaler.
Steve
So not only do you create more moisture, and therefore rust, but you poison the air in the garage with CO2 so you can't enter it
oliverkelly said: "Can someone explain to me why a paraffin heater will create moisture?"
My O Level chemistry is a bit rusty but, Paraffin is a hydrocarbon containg Hydrogen and Carbon atoms. When it burns with oxygen it releases a mixture of Carbon Dioxide (Carbon and Oxygen) and Water (Hydrogen and Oxygen).
icamm said: So not only do you create more moisture, and therefore rust, but you poison the air in the garage with CO2 so you can't enter it
Useful theft deterrent
...I appear to have a small pile of festering car thief corpses in my garage officer...
By the way - DIY and electrical stores are hopeless for this sort of electrical haeter. All they have is fan heaters and biggish oil filled radiators.
Man at the builders merchants thought I was a nutter when I bought some concrete paint and asked about frost protection heaters...
I've just left a 40w bulb on under mine until I get sorted. It looks a bit Max Power though!
I bought a dehumidifier today - a very nice Mitsubishi one with hot gas gefrost and a variable humidistat.
Bailey Air Conditioning next to Brize Norton deserve a mention. Not only were they very helpful, they turned out to be cheaper than any price I found on the web.
Finally, they were quite happy for me to leave with the unit without paying. They normally sell to the trade and are not geared up for credit cards and I had forgotten my cheque book. Not a problem they said - just pop a cheque in the post to us. Top people
Anyway - popped it in the garage - 80% relative humidity!! Not surprisingh given the car was soaking when I put it away last night, but not good at all - the new toy has some work to do (once it has sorted out the shower room.....).
Perhaps I need 2?!
On a different note Tube Heat calculated I would need a 3 kilowatt heater in the garage to keep the temp at 5-8%. That seemed a lot for a 5 metre x 6 metre garage - about 6' height at the sides rising to 9' at the apex. Sounds expensive to run? Again, top people -took some details, said they would phone back and sure enough they did. Twice.
Bailey Air Conditioning next to Brize Norton deserve a mention. Not only were they very helpful, they turned out to be cheaper than any price I found on the web.
Finally, they were quite happy for me to leave with the unit without paying. They normally sell to the trade and are not geared up for credit cards and I had forgotten my cheque book. Not a problem they said - just pop a cheque in the post to us. Top people
Anyway - popped it in the garage - 80% relative humidity!! Not surprisingh given the car was soaking when I put it away last night, but not good at all - the new toy has some work to do (once it has sorted out the shower room.....).
Perhaps I need 2?!
On a different note Tube Heat calculated I would need a 3 kilowatt heater in the garage to keep the temp at 5-8%. That seemed a lot for a 5 metre x 6 metre garage - about 6' height at the sides rising to 9' at the apex. Sounds expensive to run? Again, top people -took some details, said they would phone back and sure enough they did. Twice.
Though I'd bring this topic up again as we are now in mid-January. Those of you who have dehumidifiers how much do you reckon they are costing you to run? I assume the B&Q jobbies do ok? I am planning a major tidy-up of my garage in the next few weeks and was thinking of putting a greenhouse type electric-heater in there to keep it at say 5 degC and also putting in a de-humidifier. Thoughts/Comments? 
Rich...
Rich...
I am also now thinking of using a de-humidifier as after installing the 6ft tubular heater directly under the Griff last week, im still getting condensation dripping off the chassis. In fact its that bad you can almost see your footprints on the floor (and yes the floor is painted) as you walk round.
I will give it a few more days to see whether things dry out, and if not turn the heater off and see what happens. It was stated before that actually warming the garage can cause more condensation, is this happening to me???
Steve
I will give it a few more days to see whether things dry out, and if not turn the heater off and see what happens. It was stated before that actually warming the garage can cause more condensation, is this happening to me???
Steve
FatButtFast said: I am also now thinking of using a de-humidifier as after installing the 6ft tubular heater directly under the Griff last week, im still getting condensation dripping off the chassis. In fact its that bad you can almost see your footprints on the floor (and yes the floor is painted) as you walk round.
I will give it a few more days to see whether things dry out, and if not turn the heater off and see what happens. It was stated before that actually warming the garage can cause more condensation, is this happening to me???
Steve
The heater is warming the air allowing the air to hold more moisture, the weather conditions over the last week have been severely cold and your small heater would have no chance of improving the inside temperature due to the outside being around zero. It may be there is not enough ventilation so making the problem worse.
With the warmer weather you should not now experience any condensation, if you are the cause maybe in the structure.
hope this helps.
ken
If you are using a dehumidifier in a cold environment (like an unheated or poorly heated garage), then you need one with 'hot gas defrost'.
The unit works by drawing air through a chiller, moisture condenses on the cold surface and runs into a tank, the dry air then passes through the hot end of the compressor and exits slightly warmer than when it entered the unit.
The problem is that in a cold environment the cold surface can freeze up, and the unit will stop working. Hot gas defrost means that it periodically stops and thaws itself out.
The B&Q £99 jobs tend not to have the defrost function.
Mine seems to remove up to 5 litres of moisture every 48-72 hours. Frightening. But then the felt on my garage roof leaks slightly and allows water to seep through to the roof timbers - so that doesn't help. I haven't had a dry weekend for ages to re-felt the roof.
Costs to run - I was told it was about 2p an hour - say £15 a month - if you have it on constantly. Not sure how accurate this is.
What I do is run the unit for a couple of days after putting the car in the garage wet. I find that once it is dry I don't have a problem with condensation on the chassis, so I don't bother with the de-humidifier.
Warm air holds more moisture than cold. As the air cools it cannot hold the water and it forms condensation. The problem is made worse if there are items (such as your car chassis) which are colder than the ambient air temperature, because condensation will form on them.
If you suddenly apply heat to the garage, the car will be cooler than the air and condensation will form on it. For this reason slow temp changes are best, with some form of background heat.
Steve - I would stick it out for a bit. In theory your car should be slightly warmer than everything else in the garage - so condensation should form on the colder surfaces (e.g. windows), rather than the car. Perhaps the chassis is not yet warmed by the heater?
The unit works by drawing air through a chiller, moisture condenses on the cold surface and runs into a tank, the dry air then passes through the hot end of the compressor and exits slightly warmer than when it entered the unit.
The problem is that in a cold environment the cold surface can freeze up, and the unit will stop working. Hot gas defrost means that it periodically stops and thaws itself out.
The B&Q £99 jobs tend not to have the defrost function.
Mine seems to remove up to 5 litres of moisture every 48-72 hours. Frightening. But then the felt on my garage roof leaks slightly and allows water to seep through to the roof timbers - so that doesn't help. I haven't had a dry weekend for ages to re-felt the roof.
Costs to run - I was told it was about 2p an hour - say £15 a month - if you have it on constantly. Not sure how accurate this is.
What I do is run the unit for a couple of days after putting the car in the garage wet. I find that once it is dry I don't have a problem with condensation on the chassis, so I don't bother with the de-humidifier.
Warm air holds more moisture than cold. As the air cools it cannot hold the water and it forms condensation. The problem is made worse if there are items (such as your car chassis) which are colder than the ambient air temperature, because condensation will form on them.
If you suddenly apply heat to the garage, the car will be cooler than the air and condensation will form on it. For this reason slow temp changes are best, with some form of background heat.
Steve - I would stick it out for a bit. In theory your car should be slightly warmer than everything else in the garage - so condensation should form on the colder surfaces (e.g. windows), rather than the car. Perhaps the chassis is not yet warmed by the heater?
FatButtFast said: I am also now thinking of using a de-humidifier as after installing the 6ft tubular heater directly under the Griff last week, im still getting condensation dripping off the chassis. In fact its that bad you can almost see your footprints on the floor (and yes the floor is painted) as you walk round.
I will give it a few more days to see whether things dry out, and if not turn the heater off and see what happens. It was stated before that actually warming the garage can cause more condensation, is this happening to me???
Steve
After my recent experiences this winter, I'd now recommend using a de-humidifier as a priority, and then a heater if you fancy it. The heater doesn't seem as necessary as I may have thought.
The de-h has been on pretty much all the time (it's got a humidi-stat thingy) set to around half-way (whatever that is). Anyway, my gauge which I got from the local garden centre reads no more than 50%. No damp on the car either.
I did find, though, that the RCD had tripped (no idea why) and the humidity had gone up to around 75%. I could see the damp on the car and it ran a bit rough (damp coils, I expect). Anyway, reset the rcd and it was back to <50% within a day and no damp on the car.
Bear in mind my other precautions (above), too.
All I have to do now is rememeber to empty the tank.
As for running costs, it doesn't seem to make a huge difference to the electric bill.
My B&Q special is still running fine: has been on almost constantly for nearly a year. This is in the house, mind, not the garage. The dehumidifier has a defrost function; not sure how it works but it will kick in occasionally. I assume it just turns off the compressor until the air temp defrosts the ice on the chiller rad! Its power consumption is 300W (1.8A at 240V), so equivalent to leaving 3 medium lightbulbs on.
So 0.3 kW/h, then; whatever that equates to in these days of price-fiddling by the utilities....
Ian
So 0.3 kW/h, then; whatever that equates to in these days of price-fiddling by the utilities....
Ian
I was looking at this thing from Garage-dri which seems to work by heating the air in the garage which to me at keast seems just like leaving a fan heater on? Not very scientific and yet at a proce of £400 I'd expect something more clever than that. A quote from their web site says
"When air increases in temperature it decreases in relative humidity, for every one degree in temperature change humidity increases or decreases by 5%, ie. an increase of 1 Degree Celsius results in a 5% drop in relative humidity, therefore, as the air passes from the outside through the Garage-Dri G300 unit - over the activated heater element when applicable - it rises in temperature and reduces its relative humidity thus diluting the problem. www.garage-dri.com Comments from any of you scientific types! Rich...
"When air increases in temperature it decreases in relative humidity, for every one degree in temperature change humidity increases or decreases by 5%, ie. an increase of 1 Degree Celsius results in a 5% drop in relative humidity, therefore, as the air passes from the outside through the Garage-Dri G300 unit - over the activated heater element when applicable - it rises in temperature and reduces its relative humidity thus diluting the problem. www.garage-dri.com Comments from any of you scientific types! Rich...
What they say about relative humidity and temperature is correct.
But it seems to me this 'system' is simply heating and ventilating your garage.
Its not lying, but it does go out of its way to make it sound technically complex. It is simply a fan heater with an air intake connected outside the garage.
You could probably create the same effect by mounting a bathroom extractor fan in one of the windows. It would constantly change the air in the garage and this would certainly help.
But it seems to me this 'system' is simply heating and ventilating your garage.
Its not lying, but it does go out of its way to make it sound technically complex. It is simply a fan heater with an air intake connected outside the garage.
You could probably create the same effect by mounting a bathroom extractor fan in one of the windows. It would constantly change the air in the garage and this would certainly help.
Rich...Have had de-h in my utility room since I created it after some major extension works. It is single storey, three outside walls, uninsulated roof and pointing North. It used to be permanently mouldy in there until I decorated and put in the de-h. No condensation problems at all since. It's on from around 7am to midnight all year round. Amazing amount of condensate to tip away every day. I wore the first one out after about 12 yrs. Current one from Curry/Comets special offer about 100 quid. Thinking about one for the garage now.........
why not just ventilate the garage well?
sorry if this is a dumb question.
the garage leaks. the floor is unpainted. you could drive a bus under the door and i leave the internal door open ( i love the smell of tvr in the morning ) all seems to dry out ok.
( i really must get it all sorted.... )
sorry if this is a dumb question.
the garage leaks. the floor is unpainted. you could drive a bus under the door and i leave the internal door open ( i love the smell of tvr in the morning ) all seems to dry out ok.
( i really must get it all sorted.... )
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff