RE: How Quick?!
Discussion
Christof,
I'll apologise for this being in the wrong thread before I start.
Yes, sadly I know that sounded a bit like James Croft, but I am an ex-TVR man and having seen both sides of the coin I guess I'm just frustrated by aspects of what they do and how they do it. There are are few automotive sensory thrills better than a V8 Cerbera on 18" wheels popping and banging on the overrun - from inside or outside - but the attitude that "it's OK for them to break down a bit" is just plain puzzling.
Yes, we all know that Esprits are non too brilliant for reliability (Lots Of T... etc), but the beauty of a TVR is it's usability (big boot, no need for an osteopath to gain entry etc). Surely the inherent simplicity of the construction - electrics aside - should mean that the beasts have longevity built in. TVR is perfectly capable of making a car to rival the qualities of Boxster (electric roof aside, but not everyone wants that), but the engineers don't get the time to iron out the problems satisfactorily before full scale production starts. Even the late starting Tuscan really needed another 6-months at least to iron out the troubles people complain about. The intensity of car development has moved on a long way and the marketing department should realise this.
It wouldn't take much, just a little thought, to see that the cash invested in R&D would be recouped in a short time by having less warranty work, which in turn would lead to more satisfied customers and more return orders. As it is, the lack of orders for current cars is solved by the introduction of a new car; that new car then needs to be produced double quick because no one wants the old models and the whole cycle starts again.
I was proud when we won our first race in the British GT series last year, and to see the crowds that gathered around our Cerbera 12 was great. I am also dead chuffed with what Shorty has done; and he has done more than most can imagine to further the marque.
The Porsche-bashing does rattle my cage, though, and as you say, we are all entitled to an opinion. TVR and Porsche started up at roughly similar times and the latter's record in racing and on the road is amazing. They may not be everyone's cup of tea, but neither are TVRs. Promote TVRs on their own merit, sure, but taking a cheap pop at such as Porsche gets the company nowhere. You must appreciate that TVR engineers are car nuts, consequently quick Porsches are right at the top of many wish lists.
Many apologies for using so much space, but it was born of frustration. There's a song in there, somewhere...
Could the lack of Tamora orders also be related to new models being initially bought by existing TVR owners (from Motor show launch to being seen on the road)and these being mainly from the Griff or Chim stable with those that were going to change, already having done so with the £39K Tuscan ?
I've got a strange sense of deva vue (sp?) here. This time two years ago there was a whole series of threads about how terrible the pre-production Tuscan 'cheese-grator' grill looked. Almost without exception everyone hated it (I seem to recall Ted held a poll on our opinion of it).
At the time I think we were hoping we could pursude TVR to change it before it went into production. Of course this never happened (how foolish to think they'd take note).
Thing is we were proved wrong as the Tuscans have sold in reasonable numbers now.
What worries me now though is where we were complaining about one styling element of the Tuscan in the Tamoras case the vast majority are saying they don't like most of the car (front, back or middle). As Ted rightly says the customer will vote with there feet, and they have (hardly any pre-orders have been taken), so why don't TVR take note?
I personally think I've seen worse looking cars (the Z3 springs to mind) but then I expect a TVR to be towards the top of the styling stakes not the bottom (IMHO obviously).
Again personally I think they've lost the plot big style, it started with some elements of the Tuscan (most notably the grill) and just goes down hill from there - what's the new replacement for the Cerbera going to look like? a lowered 2 door version of the Austin Princess prehaps?
Mike
I know what you mean about colours, Si - the reflex green car at TMS , I think is better than a lighter colour, but the reflex accentuates the big bum, like a fat woman in a hooped skirt. Having said that I'm going for Halcyon Atlantis, a pearlescent greeny-blue - I saw a Chimp recently in the same colour, and it looked good. Blue carpets, magnolia hide, aah, Marvellous...
quote:Good for you Nubbin. I agree that rarity is something to savour. Whilst we all know that the best looking TVR is the S series (stylish and more exclusive than later models) - OK flak jacket on - the Tamora has grown on me. When the Tuscan came out I hated the grill (others have commented earlier) but now I like it - we must remember that some things age better than others (like me an the wife) and I think the Tamora will end up as a classic TVR. It's the first TVR in recent years I'd consider changing mine for, my only concern being the engine reliability (based only on feedback on these threads). Maybe in a year or so.
This is just great!! Looks like I'll be the only one driving a Tamora - I bought a TVR for individuality - I look certain to get that, so Cheers everyone for staying away!!
I'm comforted by the 2 year warranty that I'll get on the engine, which I will certainly continue whilst I have the car. I know that the warranty isn't the problem, it's the backlog at the factory, but I just hope TVR have binned the cheap valve followers that have caused all the trouble. I can't wait to chase a few more Porkers - haad a race with a 911 recently, in my 4.0l Chimp, and he only just had the edge, and thankfully gave me a cheery wave and smile as he peeled off at a roundabout - so the Tamora should be a rip-snorter - I'll have to go back to chasing bikes - they love it!!
(I hope Transport2000 are reading this!!)
(I hope Transport2000 are reading this!!) I think the Tamora looks great.
Swoopy front end and stubby, functional rear, and a proper convertible.
My gripe is with the Tuscan R, and the spoiler (never better called so) on the Tuscan S.
Stopped me having a Tuscan S, the standard car looks so much better, and if we're honest looks are important as well as performance.
Caro - yes, I did look at Portland grey, with the Oxford blue, but the new grainy hide that the Tamora uses, is a vinyl, not leather, and although I think it looks great, it has a limited range of colours. I wanted the very light colours, but apparently even the manufacturere doesn't recommend them (huh?!) as they mark up easily. So the lightest colour I could get is Magnolia, and I like the Oxford blue for the carpet - believe me, me and my girlfriend (expert amateur interior decorator!) have gone over and over the colour swatches that Hillfoot leant to me. I want my car!!!!
PS - nice to see a few people who actually like the Tamora coming out of the woodwork!!!
Edited by nubbin on Sunday 16th September 22:07
PS - nice to see a few people who actually like the Tamora coming out of the woodwork!!!
Edited by nubbin on Sunday 16th September 22:07 I think the front end looks okay. The back is okay, the spoiler integrated nicely. The back end looks bad lower down, with the numberplate area loking really ODD!!
As for pre-orders: I think many Chim and Griff owners changed to the Tuscan, and their cars are still too new to change now. Also, TVR lost the plot badly with the straight six engine problems and I am very sure that a hell of a lot of people (me for instance think "let them sort the car out first, then I'll consider buying".
Rgds, WalterU
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