RE: TVR to launch 600bhp supercar
Discussion
victormeldrew said:
midnightDriver said:
gazzab said:
midnightDriver said:
Why is it when TVR are being discussed theres always one person who has to bring up the topic of a chevy V8...wots the deal with that??!...u wanna chevyV8 wrapped in fibreglass go buy a friggin corvette!!
If you have to ask then maybe you dont get it........?
Yeh ur right i dont get it......im sure sum one is gonna point out that the Chevy V8 is relativly cheap, reliable, has loadsa grunt etc, but tvrs competitors (marcos, corvette) also have same engine,In my book TVRs have to have something (apart from the styling)to differentiate them from the competition. Cos on paper they are simular concepts,...think about it..chev V8,front engined,rear wheeled drived GTs.
The Speed 6 gives TVR its unique character, in the same way porsches flat 6 defines a 911s individuality. It would sacreligious to consider any other engine in a 911. Ok it could be argued that there would be no need for porsche to out source its engine,as its reliable enuff, but thats not the point of my argument,my point was that you buy TVRs cos they are different, an alternative from the other cars on the market,kinda its reminds me of when coke-a-cola tried to change its original recipe jus cos tests showed pepsi tasted better,to me theres no point aping the competition, variety is the spice.
U miss understood me, i meant that the speed 6 was the old coke ,and the chevy V8 was pepsi, and if TVR adopts a Chevy V8 then its the new recipe pepsi clone. Sorry!! my girlfriend is in marketing ,and keeps harping on about that incident with coke. lol I used this example to highlight the fact that people in general buy items for the brand,and the precived values assoiciated with the brand. In this case TVRs brand value is its britishness (amongst other things...price styling etc).To me TVR was the last great british sports car company,a car company that could truly lay claim to being totally english (other brit sports car manufacturers either have foreign engines or are owned by foreigh companies),its bad enough that TVR is owned by a russian and looks set to be made in italy,but do we really want it to have an american heart as well?.
I know patriotism doesnt make a engine reliable,nor does it stop ur engine from breaking down...fair points from most people on this forum, but i think TVR should continue to develope its home grown engines,and crack its reliablity problem.
As for the price i think nick-or-lie smelly, is aiming for a different market segment, probably the "im a rich dude with loadsa money and dont care if my car breaks cos i can buy another one" segment at the risk of alienating TVRs old fan base, well if he can pull it off then good luck to him.
Edited by midnightDriver on Tuesday 21st November 00:20
midnightDriver said:
To me TVR was the last great british sports car company,a car company that could truly lay claim to being totally english (other brit sports car manufacturers either have foreign engines or are owned by foreigh companies),its bad enough that TVR is owned by a russian and looks set to be made in italy,but do we really want it to have an american heart as well?
You mean... like the ex-Buick small block V8 that was responsible for the rapid growth of sales rather than terminal decline? It worked before.
Horse_Apple said:
That's why I support this move, even though I wouldn't part with £12oK for this type of car. I can see that it may be TVRs only future.
But if it is, they will be distancing themselves from the dealer network and all previous customers, which doesn't bode well for ongoing parts supply.
steve-p said:
Horse_Apple said:
That's why I support this move, even though I wouldn't part with £12oK for this type of car. I can see that it may be TVRs only future.
But if it is, they will be distancing themselves from the dealer network and all previous customers, which doesn't bode well for ongoing parts supply.
Agreed if all they do is produced £100K plus cars. I suspect that this is mostly PR and that what we will get is a new Sag with toned down shell and a few classy names involved in putting it together, all around the £70K mark. Engine sorted, Italian design (somewhere. Remember, it's just spin).
steve-p said:
midnightDriver said:
To me TVR was the last great british sports car company,a car company that could truly lay claim to being totally english (other brit sports car manufacturers either have foreign engines or are owned by foreigh companies),its bad enough that TVR is owned by a russian and looks set to be made in italy,but do we really want it to have an american heart as well?
You mean... like the ex-Buick small block V8 that was responsible for the rapid growth of sales rather than terminal decline? It worked before.
I will leap into this debate if i may..
Yes the Rover V8 is a development of an old Buick designed lump but if you go to that extreme, we'd be asking where TVR sourced its Fibreglass from and if the leather was from an English cow.
The perception to 99% of the living universe is that the Rover V8 is..well a Rover engine.. and Rover is British (or was).. I'm sure the engines were also built in England too..
The engine debate rages on but FWIW I think the Speed Six is worth persevering with.
Look at the summary facts: All alloy, 4 litre, DOHC 24V, fuel injected/throttle bodied, straight six, with 4-stage dry sump lubrication... If you saw that spec on - say - a Jaguar or Aston Martin race motor you'd wet yourself.
Yep, the wunderspec is coated in some fairly serious barnacles but scrape those off and it's a winner. And it's very, very British.
As for a 600bhp £120K TVR...
The world shits itself about the possible meltdowns of a normally aspirated TVR-made Speed Six.... The answer was not to double the power with a blower and then double the price of the car. 
Look at the summary facts: All alloy, 4 litre, DOHC 24V, fuel injected/throttle bodied, straight six, with 4-stage dry sump lubrication... If you saw that spec on - say - a Jaguar or Aston Martin race motor you'd wet yourself.
Yep, the wunderspec is coated in some fairly serious barnacles but scrape those off and it's a winner. And it's very, very British.
As for a 600bhp £120K TVR...
The world shits itself about the possible meltdowns of a normally aspirated TVR-made Speed Six.... The answer was not to double the power with a blower and then double the price of the car. Fire99 said:
Yes the Rover V8 is a development of an old Buick designed lump but if you go to that extreme, we'd be asking where TVR sourced its Fibreglass from and if the leather was from an English cow.
The perception to 99% of the living universe is that the Rover V8 is..well a Rover engine.. and Rover is British (or was).. I'm sure the engines were also built in England too..
In the latter years TVR Power made considerable modification to the standard engine although, of course, it was still outsourced. I would suggest that the RV8 was more British than the Royal Family and our aristocracy.
Derek Smith said:
Fire99 said:
Yes the Rover V8 is a development of an old Buick designed lump but if you go to that extreme, we'd be asking where TVR sourced its Fibreglass from and if the leather was from an English cow.
The perception to 99% of the living universe is that the Rover V8 is..well a Rover engine.. and Rover is British (or was).. I'm sure the engines were also built in England too..
In the latter years TVR Power made considerable modification to the standard engine although, of course, it was still outsourced. I would suggest that the RV8 was more British than the Royal Family and our aristocracy.
I think you misunderstand me.. (that or im lacking coffee).. My response was to Steve-P's suggestion that the Rover engine was a Buick Lump..
I totally believe the Rover V8 is as British as British can be.. and that TVR's (including mine) were all the better for it.
I have to agree with Boss Cerbera that the AJP6 engine is worth sticking with.. Its the engines reputation that needs fixing...
Fire99 said:
I have to agree with Boss Cerbera that the AJP6 engine is worth sticking with.. Its the engines reputation that needs fixing...
But can it be fixed....?
Europe production move, 60 new typhoons, lack of communication....in my view it's all a smokescreen as he tries to sell the company....and I hope he does.
To a british buyer.
Horse_Apple said:
I suspect that we will get is a new Sag with toned down shell and a few classy names involved in putting it together, all around the £70K mark. Engine sorted, Italian design (somewhere. Remember, it's just spin).
Bit like the report in AutoCar that said TVR to launch £70K coupe
whitey said:
Fire99 said:
I have to agree with Boss Cerbera that the AJP6 engine is worth sticking with.. Its the engines reputation that needs fixing...
But can it be fixed....?
Europe production move, 60 new typhoons, lack of communication....in my view it's all a smokescreen as he tries to sell the company....and I hope he does.
To a british buyer.
With you bloke. Can it be fixed? Maybe, if they throw it away and start again. Could've been fantastic, but it isn't. As for the bloke wanting us to stop knocking so he can get his car,,, good luck to yer fella'. Always hoped I'd have a brand new TVR some day. But THAT engine at THAT price? No way Pedro.
PS. Always have supported TVR at any given chance.
Edited by macdeb on Tuesday 21st November 20:13
whitey said:
[quote=Fire99]Europe production move, 60 new typhoons, lack of communication....in my view it's all a smokescreen as he tries to sell the company....and I hope he does.
Now WhoTF would buy a niche brand with a bad reputation? Cars that aren't there . . . a group of fans longing for a V8 that isn't there . . . Bring in the sound businessplans and great ideas.
If it was me with a big bag of doe I'd start all over, creating something with my own ideas. All the workers (and craftmenship) are gone gone gone and have new jobs by the time a 'start again' deal is closed, a plan is ready and the circus can start all over again.
il on the fire: Hell no chaps, it's over and you got to admit it.
I got mail from an ex-worker today: every inch of belief has long gone . . . TVR RIP.
Now what about Morgan? They could do with a new model
I read today 10% of all sold cars in Europe, have Lotus technology (Powertrain) in . . .
As if I don't have better things to do
lowest said:
Well I hope they do build this car and I'm already trying to get in the queue for one. Why don't you lot stop knocking everything and support TVR?
Damn right!!!!! it saddens me that we piss on our own last truly british supercar company, sure patriotism aint no excuse for poor reliablity, but when u get indians harping on about how good their shitty hundustans and maruti's are, and russians gloating on about their piss poor lada's, you should feel ashamed about the lack of support for some thing as special as TVR.
I beleive TVR as company and a brand is worth being proud of,we could have done alot worse. But then i suppose its the great british way to poo poo our own kind, show little support, and then later whine on about we lost something great. i suspect the problem isnt spending £120,000 for a unreliable TVR, the underlying problem is resentment about the fact that an unknown outsider (nikolai) has bought TVR, with uncertain future plans for the company. Think about it TVRs engines have always been unreliable but we still buy them, and when wheeler was incharge many wouldnt have minded paying £120,000 for a cerbera speed 12 ok it had more power,therefore more bang 4 buck,but even if the power was reduced to around 600bhp,we'd still be willing to pay £120,000 for it. Our attitude towards TVR has changed,because we dont respect nikolai,s judgment,because of that we also lose faith in the products. We hate start to dislike the cars because we dislike the man, which isnt right
midnightDriver said:
i suspect the problem isnt spending £120,000 for a unreliable TVR
How do you know its going to be unreliable? They havn't built it yet. I have had a 4.5L V8 Chim and I now have a SP6 Tuscan and these havn't been unreliable. I will also have, within the next few weeks, a Tamora (as well as the Tuscan), and I don't expect that to be unreliable either.
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