RE: TVR to launch 600bhp supercar
Discussion
Don't waste the cash on this white elephant, get back to basics, simple, great looking powerful cars which genuinely compete with the pricier competition.
A 2007 version Griff with efficient power and great design detail so you can forgive the dodgier rough bits would be great thanks.
Oh, sorry, this is all academic anyway isn't it?
A 2007 version Griff with efficient power and great design detail so you can forgive the dodgier rough bits would be great thanks.
Oh, sorry, this is all academic anyway isn't it?
Edited by andy_s on Thursday 16th November 17:37
We've seen all this before. The last two years of PR tells us all not to believe you TVR. As much as we would like to, you're gonna have to change your ways massively for us to trust in you and what you deliver. Most people have lost all belief in you.
"Oxley said that he couldn't describe what it'll look like, except that it'll be recognisable as a TVR."
No, i bet you can't. Is this because it's
a) just a load of made up cheap PR, or
b) not even been drawn on a hanky yet?
Either way, how can they expect anybody to believe that it will materialise considering the current state of the company, and the fact that we constantly get half-baked details?They've got 5 months to produce a prototype worthy of going on a stand at one of the world's most important motorshows.
"He said that the company had already taken orders for the car and so, as the still-born Typhon project could have sold twice as many as were planned, he was confident of selling all 60 of the limited edition -- the number celebrating TVR's 60th birthday."
Sorry, but this does not compute. If they could have sold twice as many Typhons as planned, why did they not even produce as many as planned? This was a car some £40-50k less than this proposed Typhoon. Is it because they would lose big money on each car and therefore wasn't economically viable, even as a loss leader? So what makes them think that this car (600 true bhp or not) is going to be a seller? The fact that it says 60th Anniversary on it somewhere?
It's certainly not the 60th Anniversary of the company that we know, because that was finally killed off this year (2006).
The only way they will sell 60 of these unimaginative (and unimaginable) cars is by NS, JO and his mates buying them. Not 'real world' sales, but then these are not 'real world' people are they? They would have no problem selling 60 examples of a modern replica of TVR 1, however.
While an Anniversary model should be a special example of some sort, they've totally missed the price point. The TVR brand is in no position to stipulate a price over 60k considering it's recent performance and current product pricing. 120k is a completely different league, no matter where you put your factory. Once again TVR thinks it can run before it has even learnt to walk. In my opinion, to do an Anniversary model, is to celebrate the past product ethos with a nod to the future. It should celebrate what the company's models are/were known for. So give us a balls out handling, V8 beauty with a soft top for 35k. Then you can make a luke warm version for about 25k to get the money/brand flowing once again.
Better still, sell the company to somebody who has the pride and passion to go with the common (business) sense required to bring this marque out of intensive care.
"Oxley said that he couldn't describe what it'll look like, except that it'll be recognisable as a TVR."
No, i bet you can't. Is this because it's
a) just a load of made up cheap PR, or
b) not even been drawn on a hanky yet?
Either way, how can they expect anybody to believe that it will materialise considering the current state of the company, and the fact that we constantly get half-baked details?They've got 5 months to produce a prototype worthy of going on a stand at one of the world's most important motorshows.
"He said that the company had already taken orders for the car and so, as the still-born Typhon project could have sold twice as many as were planned, he was confident of selling all 60 of the limited edition -- the number celebrating TVR's 60th birthday."
Sorry, but this does not compute. If they could have sold twice as many Typhons as planned, why did they not even produce as many as planned? This was a car some £40-50k less than this proposed Typhoon. Is it because they would lose big money on each car and therefore wasn't economically viable, even as a loss leader? So what makes them think that this car (600 true bhp or not) is going to be a seller? The fact that it says 60th Anniversary on it somewhere?
It's certainly not the 60th Anniversary of the company that we know, because that was finally killed off this year (2006).
The only way they will sell 60 of these unimaginative (and unimaginable) cars is by NS, JO and his mates buying them. Not 'real world' sales, but then these are not 'real world' people are they? They would have no problem selling 60 examples of a modern replica of TVR 1, however.
While an Anniversary model should be a special example of some sort, they've totally missed the price point. The TVR brand is in no position to stipulate a price over 60k considering it's recent performance and current product pricing. 120k is a completely different league, no matter where you put your factory. Once again TVR thinks it can run before it has even learnt to walk. In my opinion, to do an Anniversary model, is to celebrate the past product ethos with a nod to the future. It should celebrate what the company's models are/were known for. So give us a balls out handling, V8 beauty with a soft top for 35k. Then you can make a luke warm version for about 25k to get the money/brand flowing once again.
Better still, sell the company to somebody who has the pride and passion to go with the common (business) sense required to bring this marque out of intensive care.
the pits said:
Don't be so desperately dull you lot!
TVR plan a supercar destroyer and you all moan, 'why can't they do an mx5 type car'. This is ridiculous. The best loved TVRs have been the headline grabbers not the humdrum capri engined 'S' regardless of the commercial sense. Before you can sell the bread and butter cars you need to inject some life into the brand. This was the purpose of the SEACs which were wildly expensive at the time but blisteringly fast and helped build TVRs reputation as a purveyor of bad ass cars - even though everyone bought 350is, the SEAC got the company noticed and now of course are 'the stuff of TVR legend'.
Besides the launch of a high volume low margin model is make or break stuff, whereas a high margin, low volume model is a much lower risk project esp considering the state of the dealer network.
If it actually happens (and I have my doubts) it will be the first bold and outrageous proposal in the grand TVR tradition from the company for some time. As such I applaud it even though I have neither the intention nor the means to buy one.
How dare TVR produce a carbon bodied 600bhp car for 120k (Ferrari 430 money)?
That's much more like it TVR!
TVR plan a supercar destroyer and you all moan, 'why can't they do an mx5 type car'. This is ridiculous. The best loved TVRs have been the headline grabbers not the humdrum capri engined 'S' regardless of the commercial sense. Before you can sell the bread and butter cars you need to inject some life into the brand. This was the purpose of the SEACs which were wildly expensive at the time but blisteringly fast and helped build TVRs reputation as a purveyor of bad ass cars - even though everyone bought 350is, the SEAC got the company noticed and now of course are 'the stuff of TVR legend'.
Besides the launch of a high volume low margin model is make or break stuff, whereas a high margin, low volume model is a much lower risk project esp considering the state of the dealer network.
If it actually happens (and I have my doubts) it will be the first bold and outrageous proposal in the grand TVR tradition from the company for some time. As such I applaud it even though I have neither the intention nor the means to buy one.
How dare TVR produce a carbon bodied 600bhp car for 120k (Ferrari 430 money)?
That's much more like it TVR!
More like it? They plan to build 60 cars that they would struggle to sell. More like what exactly? Going completely out of business??
It would seem that you have forgotten what TVR was all about. People could afford an S and thats what got them hooked on the marque and they then went on to buy Griffs and Chims in their thousands. With no base model to start off with people go elsewhere find build quality and reliability and are put off forever from owning something like a TVR.
When I first saw the Griffith at the 1990 motor show I dreamed of owning one but seeing as I was 22 at the time I had to save like an idiot to do it. In the meantime I managed to scrape enough together to buy an old wedge and rebuild it. 8 years later I finally bought a Griff. Many TVR enthusaists came into the marque like I did and don't have £40K to buy a T350 let alone £120K.
The factory would still be open if they had built on the success of the Griff and Chim, in those days there was an 8-12 month waiting list and second hand griffs and Chims lost next to nothing in the first 12 months. More importantly they were sold for around £26K which was the equivalent to a BMW 328i. Nowdays they are more in line with a Porsche Boxster or a Mercedes SLK and irrespective of the thrill factor people (like me) have walked away because for the money it's a no brainer. Check me and Bennos profiles we have owned 10 between us. Check what our last TVR was and that tells you everything...
TVR need to get back to what they were good at, which was typified by the S, Griffith and Chimaera. Everything they have built since the Tuscan and the introduction of the Speed 6 engine has ruined them. I would love to have a second hand Griff, Chim or Cerb but I wouldn't touch a speed six engined car with a barge pole, and if I had £120K my money would be buying an Aston, 911, Lambo or Ferrari not a TVR. The idea is ridiculous as was the Speed 12 and Typhon which is why they never got built either....
flasher said:
When I first saw the Griffith at the 1990 motor show I dreamed of owning one but seeing as I was 22 at the time I had to save like an idiot to do it. In the meantime I managed to scrape enough together to buy an old wedge and rebuild it. 8 years later I finally bought a Griff. Many TVR enthusaists came into the marque like I did and don't have £40K to buy a T350 let alone £120K.
thats a good point and applied to myself too.
the main difference being mine was a few years older and three times I placed deposits at the show for a new car, in 99 for a Griff500, in 2000 for a Tuscan and in 2002 for a T350C.
If they had done a back to basics well designed roadster with a rorty 6 or 8, simple electronics for sub £30k then a whole new generation of buyers would be snared.
As it is they are trying to sell in the most fiercly competitive segment of the market with a product that just doesnt compete. Take the imminent new Alfa 8C or Audi R8 and tell me a buyer would walk past either to a TVR...
bennno
I'd love to see it happen, but I have to say that I don't think this was undertaken in the best manner. Had TVR quietly gone about their business, and shown up to the motorshow with 5+ examples of this car, all ready to be customer delivered - PH would have exploded with the 'great news of TVR's revival' etc. However, bringing this to light so early makes it look more like a pipe dream than any semblance of a real car, and could only bring out the cynical side of folks.
I hope it comes through, but I'm not sure I'd put my $$ on the line if I could afford one.
Gary
I hope it comes through, but I'm not sure I'd put my $$ on the line if I could afford one.
Gary
Lets not forget that TVR are also planning a new Cerbera to compete at le mans. Hopefully if all goes well the Typhoon will be the Halo model people keep talking about, being at Le Mans will raise awareness of the brand and the Cerbera should appeal to the needs of those in the 40-50k sector, assuming the prices are roughly in line with the old cerbie. Then they just need a Tamora type car for the 25-35K market and they should be back on their feet.
I agree it will be one for the record if any of TVRs plans materialize but I till hope they do. If TVR can get back on their feet again now then there should be something decent in 5 years when I'll be in the market to buy one.
Call me naive but my fingers are crossed.
Busta
I agree it will be one for the record if any of TVRs plans materialize but I till hope they do. If TVR can get back on their feet again now then there should be something decent in 5 years when I'll be in the market to buy one.
Call me naive but my fingers are crossed.
Busta
TVR please get back and focus on what made you good;
Simple mechanicals
Simple electrics
Drop dead good looks
Big simple well proven engines
Great performance
Avant Garde facias
Weight 1000-1100kg
Prices £25-40k and maybe a $50k plus flagship model
then sort out reliability, dealers, warranty and the 'small' matter of the factory.
Mr Smol, I used to aspire to own a TVR as it was a nearly affordable icon. No longer matey .........
Simple mechanicals
Simple electrics
Drop dead good looks
Big simple well proven engines
Great performance
Avant Garde facias
Weight 1000-1100kg
Prices £25-40k and maybe a $50k plus flagship model
then sort out reliability, dealers, warranty and the 'small' matter of the factory.
Mr Smol, I used to aspire to own a TVR as it was a nearly affordable icon. No longer matey .........
Edited by pesmo on Thursday 16th November 20:58
Congratulations fellow Pistonheaders!!!!!
Not only have soooooo many of you had me in fits of laughter reading through this thread, but you've also restored my faith in mankind - I thought I was the only one that thought that the current TVR management are a bunch of idiots... but apparnetly there's loads of us
Not only have soooooo many of you had me in fits of laughter reading through this thread, but you've also restored my faith in mankind - I thought I was the only one that thought that the current TVR management are a bunch of idiots... but apparnetly there's loads of us
Congratulations fellow Pistonheaders!!!!!
Not only have soooooo many of you had me in fits of laughter reading through this thread, but you've also restored my faith in mankind - I thought I was the only one that thought that the current TVR management are a bunch of idiots... but apparnetly there's loads of us
I had from the beginning the same Opinion Looks like you (are a bunch of idiots...).
Not only have soooooo many of you had me in fits of laughter reading through this thread, but you've also restored my faith in mankind - I thought I was the only one that thought that the current TVR management are a bunch of idiots... but apparnetly there's loads of us
I had from the beginning the same Opinion Looks like you (are a bunch of idiots...).
A 600hp speed six that will be a very big bang for your bucks...... after about 12,000 miles I expect.
I remember a Tuscan S blasting past me and thinking one day I wil lhave one only to go bang within 200yds. I had always wanted a TVR but that put me off.
Bit of a novice on all thngs TVR but never understood why they have not used GM LS1/LS2 engines, relatively cheap, light and big standard HP and torque, bullet proof and highly tunable at affordable prices - look at the Ultima's....
Choice - Ultima GTR with same or more power at circa £70k or £120k TVR
I remember a Tuscan S blasting past me and thinking one day I wil lhave one only to go bang within 200yds. I had always wanted a TVR but that put me off.
Bit of a novice on all thngs TVR but never understood why they have not used GM LS1/LS2 engines, relatively cheap, light and big standard HP and torque, bullet proof and highly tunable at affordable prices - look at the Ultima's....
Choice - Ultima GTR with same or more power at circa £70k or £120k TVR
Just imagine for one moment they do builld the car to relaunch TVR and use it to make a massive statement/impact back into the market.
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
Over
Top Gear gets a hold of it and it goes round the track faster than any other car has done before. Would it be worth 120K then???
Would someone pay 120K for it to know they can beat a Zonda/Porsche GT/Enzo etc? All 300-400K cars???
Remember the Sagaris is not to far off those cars times anyway.
May not be as stupid as you think.
Just trying to add some balance to the news
Over
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff