Warranty Update

Author
Discussion

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Spoke to Dom this morning and here's the latest, sorry if it's long winded but the detail is necessary:

My Sag was first registered 1/1/05. On 7/6/05 at 1096 miles it had its 1st service, on 27/7/05 at 5,643 miles it had its 2nd service (both @ Peter Smith) and at 7448 miles on 27/03/06 it had an oil/filter service by TVR Power. I bought the car from Tony Gilbert on 24/11/06 showing 9,400 miles with, on the sales invoice, under Accessories: "Warranty is covered by remainder of Manufacturers warranty until May 2008".

I put the car into TVR Centre 4/12/06 for a full service and to look at the graunchy gearbox and unswitchoffable air-con which turned out to be damaged synchro and a faulty ECU - both to be sent off and done under Warranty. The subsequent refusal seems to have stemmed from the fact that while the car had been up for sale it had passed through the 12 month cutoff date for a service by 4 months (technically due 27/7/06) - despite, and as you can see from the above, being if anything over serviced in its prior life. This decision was made by the factory and not TVR Power or TVR Centre.

Martin and Dom have been arguing the toss over this rather pedantic situation on my behalf since day one but, the disintegration of the TVR organisation since has got in the way. It seems there is a willingness to rectify the situation not just for me, but anyone else who has been treated in a less than reeasonable manner and negotiations are afoot with an insurer who is looking to underwrite TVR's factory Warranties very shortly.

So, maybe there is a little light at the end of the tunnel after all - whatever, it seems that TVR is going to be carrying on in some form or other and also that, to do so, means that the incumbent management will have to resolve the Warranty issue.

I'll let you know as things pan out. In the meantime, make damn sure that you don't go a day over the 6 or 12 month cutiff dates for your servicing.

gridgway

1,001 posts

181 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
hmmm, my tamora sat in RG's showroom for 8 or so months, so it'll have missed the service on time as well. Surely there must be loads of used TVRs that this has happened to? I know that TVR are sticklers for the time and mileage intervals being stuck to without any leeway. But surely that's not right.

Anyway regardless of the warranty contractual debate (the 3 parties involved), if the dealer hasn't observed the conditions to keep the warranty, then surely that's their responsibility?

Graham

TurboTomato

331 posts

162 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo, probably worth putting a link to this thread on the original thread you started. People reading that should know the full story.

I agree they're being pedantic though, especially given the warranty conditions were broken by them before you owned the car!

Mr.Chips

477 posts

150 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo said:

I bought the car from Tony Gilbert on 24/11/06 showing 9,400 miles with, on the sales invoice, under Accessories: "Warranty is covered by remainder of Manufacturers warranty until May 2008".

I put the car into TVR Centre 4/12/06 for a full service and to look at the graunchy gearbox and unswitchoffable air-con which turned out to be damaged synchro and a faulty ECU - both to be sent off and done under Warranty.


Bearing all of this in mind, don't you have some sort of come back against Tony Gilbert, after all, you have only had the car for less than 2 months?

puffsorted2

2,098 posts

161 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
At least you can show where the car clocked up its mileage - might also explain the synchro problem hehe

www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Tour-Europe-John-Matthews/dp/B000CR6WRG


Edited by puffsorted2 on Monday 22 January 15:15
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Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
puffsorted2 said:
At least you can show where the car clocked up its mileage - might also explain the synchro problem hehe

www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Tour-Europe-John-Matthews/dp/B000CR6WRG


Edited by puffsorted2 on Monday 22 January 15:15


Have you seen it - is it my car?

puffsorted2

2,098 posts

161 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo said:
puffsorted2 said:
At least you can show where the car clocked up its mileage - might also explain the synchro problem hehe

www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Tour-Europe-John-Matthews/dp/B000CR6WRG


Edited by puffsorted2 on Monday 22 January 15:15


Have you seen it - is it my car?


No but pretty sure it might be your car, but looking at it now the wheels are slightly different. There was a bit in Sprint about it a few months ago (July 2006)




Edited by puffsorted2 on Monday 22 January 21:39

Ribol

9,322 posts

194 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo said:
It seems there is a willingness to rectify the situation not just for me, but anyone else who has been treated in a less than reeasonable manner and negotiations are afoot with an insurer who is looking to underwrite TVR's factory Warranties very shortly.

I don't doubt an insurer might look at underwriting the warranty(at a price) but who is going to pay the premiums for each car if TVR does not exist anymore?
It obviously shouldn't be down to the owners but I can't see anyone coming up with the money to pay the premiums.

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
puffsorted2 said:
Jappo said:
puffsorted2 said:
At least you can show where the car clocked up its mileage - might also explain the synchro problem hehe

www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Tour-Europe-John-Matthews/dp/B000CR6WRG


Edited by puffsorted2 on Monday 22 January 15:15


Have you seen it - is it my car?


No but pretty sure it might be your car, but looking at it now the wheels are slightly different. There was a bit in Sprint about it a few months ago (July 2006)

Just ordered the DVD . we'll soon find out if this is the car - there aren't many in this colour and I know that the (1) previous owner had quite a bit of custom work done (brake calipers painted red, momo, de-cat, etc). The car did do a huge mileage in its first 3 months of life.


Edited by puffsorted2 on Monday 22 January 21:39

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Ribol said:
Jappo said:
It seems there is a willingness to rectify the situation not just for me, but anyone else who has been treated in a less than reeasonable manner and negotiations are afoot with an insurer who is looking to underwrite TVR's factory Warranties very shortly.

I don't doubt an insurer might look at underwriting the warranty(at a price) but who is going to pay the premiums for each car if TVR does not exist anymore?
It obviously shouldn't be down to the owners but I can't see anyone coming up with the money to pay the premiums.


I think it's down to the maths. Underwriters buy "books" of business on the basis that they have assessed the risks involved and the future value of the business. It may be that an underwriter (probably the one that underwrites TVR's warranties currently) has offered to buy the book and feels it is worth while putting a slush fund (if you like) into the book value to take care of existing customers on the basis that the future extended warranty purchases will make it back for them in the long run. Happens all the time in the world of insurance of whatever type.

Ribol

9,322 posts

194 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo said:
Ribol said:
Jappo said:
It seems there is a willingness to rectify the situation not just for me, but anyone else who has been treated in a less than reeasonable manner and negotiations are afoot with an insurer who is looking to underwrite TVR's factory Warranties very shortly.

I don't doubt an insurer might look at underwriting the warranty(at a price) but who is going to pay the premiums for each car if TVR does not exist anymore?
It obviously shouldn't be down to the owners but I can't see anyone coming up with the money to pay the premiums.


I think it's down to the maths. Underwriters buy "books" of business on the basis that they have assessed the risks involved and the future value of the business. It may be that an underwriter (probably the one that underwrites TVR's warranties currently) has offered to buy the book and feels it is worth while putting a slush fund (if you like) into the book value to take care of existing customers on the basis that the future extended warranty purchases will make it back for them in the long run. Happens all the time in the world of insurance of whatever type.

You are assuming TVR warranties are currently underwritten - are they?

bennno

5,708 posts

205 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo said:
Spoke to Dom this morning and here's the latest, sorry if it's long winded but the detail is necessary:

My Sag was first registered 1/1/05. On 7/6/05 at 1096 miles it had its 1st service, on 27/7/05 at 5,643 miles it had its 2nd service (both @ Peter Smith) and at 7448 miles on 27/03/06 it had an oil/filter service by TVR Power. I bought the car from Tony Gilbert on 24/11/06 showing 9,400 miles with, on the sales invoice, under Accessories: "Warranty is covered by remainder of Manufacturers warranty until May 2008".

I put the car into TVR Centre 4/12/06 for a full service and to look at the graunchy gearbox and unswitchoffable air-con which turned out to be damaged synchro and a faulty ECU - both to be sent off and done under Warranty. The subsequent refusal seems to have stemmed from the fact that while the car had been up for sale it had passed through the 12 month cutoff date for a service by 4 months (technically due 27/7/06) - despite, and as you can see from the above, being if anything over serviced in its prior life. This decision was made by the factory and not TVR Power or TVR Centre.

Martin and Dom have been arguing the toss over this rather pedantic situation on my behalf since day one but, the disintegration of the TVR organisation since has got in the way. It seems there is a willingness to rectify the situation not just for me, but anyone else who has been treated in a less than reeasonable manner and negotiations are afoot with an insurer who is looking to underwrite TVR's factory Warranties very shortly.

So, maybe there is a little light at the end of the tunnel after all - whatever, it seems that TVR is going to be carrying on in some form or other and also that, to do so, means that the incumbent management will have to resolve the Warranty issue.

I'll let you know as things pan out. In the meantime, make damn sure that you don't go a day over the 6 or 12 month cutiff dates for your servicing.


Given you noticed it had a shagged gearbox and ecu within 10 days of purchase then frankly I am amazed you didnt take it straight back to Tny Gilbert (supplying dealer) and ask them to resolve.

I would reccomend you send them a copy of the invoice notifying them that the faults were present on delivery and that TVR will not cover as the TVR warranty was void at time of sale due to missed intervals - therefore you expect them to cover the cost of repairs and put in place an alternate form of warranty.

As for a response within 72 hours or you will be forced to take the matter to trading standards and the small claims court - act quick as the inital 90 days is almost up


Bennno

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Good advice mate, have to say I didn't even test drive the car before buying it but noticed the shagged gearbox on the drive home from Oxfodshire to Hertfordshire after picking it up. Booked the car into TVR Centre that week as I was confident the Warranty thing wasn't an issue and also that I'd been doing business with TVR Centre for 14 years and trusted them - as I still do.

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Ribol said:
Jappo said:
Ribol said:
Jappo said:
It seems there is a willingness to rectify the situation not just for me, but anyone else who has been treated in a less than reeasonable manner and negotiations are afoot with an insurer who is looking to underwrite TVR's factory Warranties very shortly.

I don't doubt an insurer might look at underwriting the warranty(at a price) but who is going to pay the premiums for each car if TVR does not exist anymore?
It obviously shouldn't be down to the owners but I can't see anyone coming up with the money to pay the premiums.


I think it's down to the maths. Underwriters buy "books" of business on the basis that they have assessed the risks involved and the future value of the business. It may be that an underwriter (probably the one that underwrites TVR's warranties currently) has offered to buy the book and feels it is worth while putting a slush fund (if you like) into the book value to take care of existing customers on the basis that the future extended warranty purchases will make it back for them in the long run. Happens all the time in the world of insurance of whatever type.

You are assuming TVR warranties are currently underwritten - are they?


All Factory Warranties are underwritten - it's just that the big Manufactureres have their own insurance companies (and Finance Companies for that matter) so they underwrite them, themselves. Smaller ones always underwrite with a re-insurer.

bennno

5,708 posts

205 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all

The slight issue you have is that you may have been required to give them first opportunity to fix the car.

I would write to them first thing and include 'noticed faults on way home, but given the TVR warranty that you confirmed the car was supplied with I booked it in to a main dealer for resolution. Its since turned out that due to servicing irregularities the warranty you confirmed wasnt valid and I have been presented with a bill for £XXXX. I would appreciate confirmation that you will cover the cost of repairs noticed on delivery of the car, and booked in for resolution within 10 days at a main dealer and provide an alternate warranty within X days. I hope we can resolve this amicably etc'

If they dont respond / dont respond positively then get a solicitor to send them a letter mentioning small claims court.

BTW if you financed the car then your issue is with them as legally the dealer sold to them and them to you in law

Bennno

Ribol

9,322 posts

194 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Jappo said:
All Factory Warranties are underwritten - it's just that the big Manufactureres have their own insurance companies (and Finance Companies for that matter) so they underwrite them, themselves. Smaller ones always underwrite with a re-insurer.

Do you know that for a fact that applies to TVR?

BossCerbera

8,188 posts

179 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Ribol said:
Do you know that for a fact that applies to TVR?

I know for a fact TVR's wasn't. I'd be very surprised if it since became so. The warranty wasn't even underwritten at the most basic level - i.e. suppliers warranting their components for 36K/36M.

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
bennno said:

The slight issue you have is that you may have been required to give them first opportunity to fix the car.

I would write to them first thing and include 'noticed faults on way home, but given the TVR warranty that you confirmed the car was supplied with I booked it in to a main dealer for resolution. Its since turned out that due to servicing irregularities the warranty you confirmed wasnt valid and I have been presented with a bill for £XXXX. I would appreciate confirmation that you will cover the cost of repairs noticed on delivery of the car, and booked in for resolution within 10 days at a main dealer and provide an alternate warranty within X days. I hope we can resolve this amicably etc'

If they dont respond / dont respond positively then get a solicitor to send them a letter mentioning small claims court.

BTW if you financed the car then your issue is with them as legally the dealer sold to them and them to you in law

Bennno


Thanks Benno - again, good advice - I'll take it up.

Jappo

Original Poster:

1,120 posts

145 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
Ribol said:
Jappo said:
All Factory Warranties are underwritten - it's just that the big Manufactureres have their own insurance companies (and Finance Companies for that matter) so they underwrite them, themselves. Smaller ones always underwrite with a re-insurer.

Do you know that for a fact that applies to TVR?


Of course I don't know it for a fact. It's just normal business practice that this is the way that it is done. A company takes on a committment and then , normally, it mitigates its risk by taking out an insurance policy against the worst scenario. It's kinda like pension fuinds in a way, the Company invests its contributions into a ............hang on, I'll get me coat

Ribol

9,322 posts

194 months

Monday 22nd January 2007
quotequote all
BossCerbera said:
Ribol said:
Do you know that for a fact that applies to TVR?

I know for a fact TVR's wasn't. I'd be very surprised if it since became so. The warranty wasn't even underwritten at the most basic level - i.e. suppliers warranting their components for 36K/36M.

Pretty much confirms what has always been said. If TVR had been paid out for all the warranty work they have done(even at warranty rates) they would probably still be there.