Dealers Ditch TVR
Discussion
Oh well, it seems that many of the larger TVR dealers in the south are ditching TVR franchises.
As from today Fernhurst has given up their official franchise in favour of being an independent unofficial dealer.
(HR Owens has already given up their and another surrey dealership COULD be ditching theirs too very soon)
PERHAPS this has something to do with:
1 - Factory taking upto a year to pay warranty work already carried out by dealer.
2 - Not coughing up all the cash for warranty work (on average only paying four out of ten hours spent fixing problems)
3 - Factory attitude. Eg. When being told that an engine valve failure has caused the cat conv. to burn up and cause engine fire. Factory reply was 'Its insured isnt it?'
4 - Sending engine rebuilds back with the wrong block on (tuscan instead of cerbera speed six head).
..... this list is endless.
I reckon the BBC need to send in Sir John Harvey Jones for another series of Trouble at the Top. There's so much work to be done at TVR they could make a whole series!
I totally understand the reason for doing what Fernhurst and many others have done.
>>> Edited by RRTuscan on Monday 10th December 09:24
Always be very careful making these kind of comments. Admittedly it does look a little suspicious that there have been a number of dealers that have dropped from the fold - BUT it usually is two way process....
Without the full and frank disclosure of information from both sides (that aint going to happen) we probably wont know the full story.
Just look at the facts, selling TVRs is never going to make you a million. The volumes just arent there to make a mint. For example, Porsche sold something like 55,000 cars last year - TVR something like 2000. It just puts it in perspective. With such a small volume, you have only a relatively small margin to play with. The dealers are running a business remember and they need to turn a profit - if they cant see / make one selling TVRs then maybe they need to do something else.
For PR purposes a dealer may choose to indicate that it wasnt their fault and is everything to do with the factory - unfortunately the factory cannot say anything in response! I remember a phrase to do with a rock and a hard place!
Finally, please do remember that there are usually some people that are not too happy with the situation - human nature tends to exaggerate a little. Just be careful on these.
Incidentaly went to Castle TVR to get my mirror fixed. For a dealership that has only been open for something like 3-6 months they are doing really well. Full set of demonstrators, excellent facilities, new car trade going very well and the second hand one picking up (takes time to build a reputation). So if they can make it work then I am sure that others can too....
Cheers,
Paul
Without the full and frank disclosure of information from both sides (that aint going to happen) we probably wont know the full story.
Just look at the facts, selling TVRs is never going to make you a million. The volumes just arent there to make a mint. For example, Porsche sold something like 55,000 cars last year - TVR something like 2000. It just puts it in perspective. With such a small volume, you have only a relatively small margin to play with. The dealers are running a business remember and they need to turn a profit - if they cant see / make one selling TVRs then maybe they need to do something else.
For PR purposes a dealer may choose to indicate that it wasnt their fault and is everything to do with the factory - unfortunately the factory cannot say anything in response! I remember a phrase to do with a rock and a hard place!
Finally, please do remember that there are usually some people that are not too happy with the situation - human nature tends to exaggerate a little. Just be careful on these.
Incidentaly went to Castle TVR to get my mirror fixed. For a dealership that has only been open for something like 3-6 months they are doing really well. Full set of demonstrators, excellent facilities, new car trade going very well and the second hand one picking up (takes time to build a reputation). So if they can make it work then I am sure that others can too....
Cheers,
Paul
Fair comment Paul.
Of course dealers are in business to make money, but I dont think the factory has kept up their end of the franchise deal (only my uninformed opinion). If the factory approves the work to be done on a piece of warranty work then they shoud subsequently pay for it shouldnt they?
Put it this way, in business if someone phones you and says they can carry out a certain piece of work for you and it will cost you X amount, and you then agree to it. They then do the work but you only pay them 1/2 of X several months later. I would expect a nasty letter and then a more official one from their solicitor. Business is business isnt it, no matter what industry you work in?
Guess Im just ranting on how badly TVR deal with their customers and dealers.
If the factory wish to make money just like any other company then they should sort out their in house process and improve their quality and efficieny rather than take shortcuts shouldnt they?
As for Castle. Of course they are doing well as they probably had a good injection of cash to buy the demonstrators and to setup the franchise. They will of course be very eager etc.
But I'd like to hear their story in 1 years time when they have experienced more warranty work and car problems.
Edited by RRTuscan on Monday 10th December 09:27
Of course dealers are in business to make money, but I dont think the factory has kept up their end of the franchise deal (only my uninformed opinion). If the factory approves the work to be done on a piece of warranty work then they shoud subsequently pay for it shouldnt they?
Put it this way, in business if someone phones you and says they can carry out a certain piece of work for you and it will cost you X amount, and you then agree to it. They then do the work but you only pay them 1/2 of X several months later. I would expect a nasty letter and then a more official one from their solicitor. Business is business isnt it, no matter what industry you work in?
Guess Im just ranting on how badly TVR deal with their customers and dealers.
If the factory wish to make money just like any other company then they should sort out their in house process and improve their quality and efficieny rather than take shortcuts shouldnt they?
As for Castle. Of course they are doing well as they probably had a good injection of cash to buy the demonstrators and to setup the franchise. They will of course be very eager etc.
But I'd like to hear their story in 1 years time when they have experienced more warranty work and car problems.
Edited by RRTuscan on Monday 10th December 09:27
RR Tuscan
Where have you heard that HR Owen were giving up TVR? I was in their showroom off Brompton Road only 2 weeks ago and they had no less than 4 card on displays (all models except Tamora), 2 pf them news cars. Doesn't look like someone who's giving up!
Same thing for Fernhurst, I know Andy McLoughin ex-Hawthorns has set up APM automotive - a new TVR inedpendant with experience of speed-six engines, but I 've heqrd nothing abound Fernies...
What are your sources ?
Regards
R
RT Antigua Blue Chimaera 450
Where have you heard that HR Owen were giving up TVR? I was in their showroom off Brompton Road only 2 weeks ago and they had no less than 4 card on displays (all models except Tamora), 2 pf them news cars. Doesn't look like someone who's giving up!
Same thing for Fernhurst, I know Andy McLoughin ex-Hawthorns has set up APM automotive - a new TVR inedpendant with experience of speed-six engines, but I 've heqrd nothing abound Fernies...
What are your sources ?
Regards
R
RT Antigua Blue Chimaera 450
I spoke to an ex-TVR official dealer last week (now an independent specialist) and he said the reason for giving up the franchise was the large amount of working capital required to be tied up in stock.
Shame these es-TVR places can't be 'service-only' franchisees as that would allow us to quote FTVRSH when selling.
Shame these es-TVR places can't be 'service-only' franchisees as that would allow us to quote FTVRSH when selling.
quote:
If the factory approves the work to be done on a piece of warranty work then they shoud subsequently pay for it shouldnt they?
Put it this way, in business if someone phones you and says they can carry out a certain piece of work for you and it will cost you X amount, and you then agree to it. They then do the work but you only pay them 1/2 of X several months later.
Sorry RR - whilst you may be correct regarding the factory only paying 4/10 of the rate for warranty work, this is common practice in the motor industry. I know for a fact a manufacturer that pays £25.00 / hour for warranty work whereas the customer charge rate is almost double. TVR are simply doing the same as BMW/Porsche/Ford etc. etc. R...
Bit naughty I know but I just looked at Fernhurst's web site and they have
an interesting piece suggesting that non-franchised specialists cannot
offer the same quality of service as a fully franchised TVR dealer ... Ho
Hum!
It reads...
Only a TVR main dealer can carry out repairs to a car still under
manufacturer's warranty.
Only a TVR main dealer has back up from the TVR factory.
A non-franchised dealer will not have the technical experience and tools to
prepare and look after your car.
A non-franchised dealer will rarely buy back your car when you want to sell
it.
You want a guaranteed used car which has been fully checked, fully prepared
and serviced which will be warranted for the next 12 months - then buy from
a TVR Dealer. If you want to take a gamble and save a couple of thousand
pounds (possibly) then buy from a non-franchised source.
etc.
Rich...
an interesting piece suggesting that non-franchised specialists cannot
offer the same quality of service as a fully franchised TVR dealer ... Ho
Hum!
It reads...
Only a TVR main dealer can carry out repairs to a car still under
manufacturer's warranty.
Only a TVR main dealer has back up from the TVR factory.
A non-franchised dealer will not have the technical experience and tools to
prepare and look after your car.
A non-franchised dealer will rarely buy back your car when you want to sell
it.
You want a guaranteed used car which has been fully checked, fully prepared
and serviced which will be warranted for the next 12 months - then buy from
a TVR Dealer. If you want to take a gamble and save a couple of thousand
pounds (possibly) then buy from a non-franchised source.
etc.
Rich... I just had an interesting call from Graham at Fernhurst who said they would indeed reduce their servicing prices as they would no longer have to subsidise the cost of warranty repairs.
It obviously was not an easy decision for him as they have been a main dealer for 17 years and they have many staff's job to think of..
It obviously was not an easy decision for him as they have been a main dealer for 17 years and they have many staff's job to think of..
If you're only making/selling a few thousand cars a year, IMO there's a very good case for selling directly, and simply having authorised service centres.
Maybee have a handfull of TVR owned 'factory' showrooms in key areas, and perhaps let some of the 'lapsed' dealers back as official service experts.
Marcus
& Ocean Haze Griff 500
Maybee have a handfull of TVR owned 'factory' showrooms in key areas, and perhaps let some of the 'lapsed' dealers back as official service experts.
Marcus
& Ocean Haze Griff 500
Before I start this is my personal opinion only.........
I've visited Fernhursts twice in the last 4 years. The first was when I was looking for my first TVR. They wouldn't let me have a test drive and gave the attitude "come back when you're old enough to afford one!" I was 29 years old!
The same day I went to Hawthorns, had a test drive and the bug had bitten! A few weeks later I bought a used Chimaera 4.0L.
At around Sept 2000 I called into Fernhusts again as I was thinking of changing my Chimaera. This time it was their Tuscan demo that they wouldn't let me drive! Same salesman too!
A few weeks later I went to the Motor Show and paid a deposit for a Tamora!
If this is an example of their Sales strategy it's no wonder they've struggled to turn over their stock!
Cheers....... Andrew
I've visited Fernhursts twice in the last 4 years. The first was when I was looking for my first TVR. They wouldn't let me have a test drive and gave the attitude "come back when you're old enough to afford one!" I was 29 years old!
The same day I went to Hawthorns, had a test drive and the bug had bitten! A few weeks later I bought a used Chimaera 4.0L.
At around Sept 2000 I called into Fernhusts again as I was thinking of changing my Chimaera. This time it was their Tuscan demo that they wouldn't let me drive! Same salesman too!
A few weeks later I went to the Motor Show and paid a deposit for a Tamora!
If this is an example of their Sales strategy it's no wonder they've struggled to turn over their stock!
Cheers....... Andrew
Interesting feedback from everyone. I didnt know that it was the norm in the motor industry not to pay all of the warranty costs. Sounds like the industry needs to grow up a bit.
A couple of minor points:
Owens may be displaying cars, but that doesnt mean they are a main dealer. I could of course be wrong as I heard the news from another dealer.
Sounds strange of fernies not to offer you a test drive (gb61390). I bought my first TVR when I was 23 (new chim 500)from them without any hassle.
I think one of the main points of interest about all this is that TVR do not know how to communicate properly.
If they listened as well as they harped on (yes benny boy, you know who you are)
about how stonking their cars are, then perhaps they would not get as much flak from customers, general public and the motoring press.
Customer feedback is one of the most valuable sources of information. Seems to me TVR only have a one way method of communication.
Regarding the servicing issue. I guess the factory only pay what it actually costs to carry out the warranty work, and there is very little profit if any for the dealer in doing it. When so much work needs to done under warranty, it doesn't give them much time to do work which is fully chargable and profitable. With most dealers the balance is sufficient, but I can imaging this is not the case at a TVR dealer. Although, it has never been evident in my experience, I can imagine the situation could lead to a fairly unenthusiastic approach to warranty work.
steve
steve
Something that everyone seems to get wrong is the number of TVR's that are actually sold : TVR peaked about 2 years ago with about 2200 per year but that is now down to 600 to 700 per year.
You could make an educated guess that most of that is now 'speed 6' engined
and with all the bad press - some of it true and other problems the Tuscan has well .. it's no wonder some dealers are finding times a bit tough.
Not just financially but just that the problems found dont seem to get fixed.
You always had to be an enthusiast to own a TVR but now you need the stamina of a tri-athelete !
You could make an educated guess that most of that is now 'speed 6' engined
and with all the bad press - some of it true and other problems the Tuscan has well .. it's no wonder some dealers are finding times a bit tough.
Not just financially but just that the problems found dont seem to get fixed.
You always had to be an enthusiast to own a TVR but now you need the stamina of a tri-athelete !
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