Cigar socket battery chargers
Discussion
Do these cigar socket charger things actually work?
Cars sat in the garage on axle stands and i can't get to the battery & I know its going flat.
I have one of these trickle chargers Optimate type things that i have plugged into my bike. Thing is if i get one of these adaptors to plug in the cigar socket will it help until i can get a proper lead on it later.
Cars sat in the garage on axle stands and i can't get to the battery & I know its going flat.
I have one of these trickle chargers Optimate type things that i have plugged into my bike. Thing is if i get one of these adaptors to plug in the cigar socket will it help until i can get a proper lead on it later.
Check your wiring can cope first.
The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
Bodmin said:
Check your wiring can cope first.
The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
Thanks for that, Bodders. The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
I've actually put in an additional switchable 30-amp one, with an inline 10-amp fuse, as there was a queue for the other one, what with satnav and mobile.
My reading of the instructions for Accumate suggest that the current is very low once the battery is fully charged, just a trickle in fact. Would that be any danger in the standard socket?
Edited by Derek Smith on Thursday 15th January 09:03
My Accumate has been plugged into the lighter socket during the winter for 4 years and, touch wood, no problems.
I would assume that these things are designed properly otherwise they wouldn't sell them and there would have been issues by now.
As it is a conditioner rather than out and out charger I would guess that the current is a lot less but I am no electrician so could be wrong. Won't stop me using it as I have done and I have one on the bike as well but that is on dedicated cables from the battery.
I would assume that these things are designed properly otherwise they wouldn't sell them and there would have been issues by now.
As it is a conditioner rather than out and out charger I would guess that the current is a lot less but I am no electrician so could be wrong. Won't stop me using it as I have done and I have one on the bike as well but that is on dedicated cables from the battery.
Bodmin said:
Check your wiring can cope first.
The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
Er, sorry but that's nonsense!The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
The wiring to the cigarette lighter will be, and has always been rated to cope with the current drawn by the lighter. It will be fused to prevent damage to the wiring.
The wiring will typically be 1.5 to 2.5 mm2, and the fuse is typically 15-20amps.
A typical charger ie. Accumate, can supply a maximum of 1.2amps, so even connected forever and a day there will be no risk of damage to the wiring.
The only way you could damage something is if you tried to jump start the vehicle through the socket, but the worst that could happen is that you would blow the fuse, as it's only function is to protect the wiring.
A mobile phone charger would supply negligable current, so I'm not sure how you arrive at your claim that they can damage the ECU and / or wiring loom.
Jump starting a car with a dead battery can possibly cause damage to the ECU due to the voltage surge at the instant of connection - maybe this is what you meant?
Oh, and the reason you see a 'dedicated' socket rather than a cigarette lighter these days is:-
1 - to save costs of fitting the lighter - you have to pay extra for a 'smokers pack' &
2 - it's more PC to have a power / accessory socket.
Edited by nelly1 on Thursday 15th January 09:00
Also, check which way round the lighter socket is wired; I know of cars where the polarity os reversed from the normal.
After charging mine through the lighter socket for a couple of years, I found the connection became intermittent, so I fitted an Anderson connector directly to the battery & led the cable out along the n/s sill. Now I know I can get a good connection to the battery and jump start if required.
After charging mine through the lighter socket for a couple of years, I found the connection became intermittent, so I fitted an Anderson connector directly to the battery & led the cable out along the n/s sill. Now I know I can get a good connection to the battery and jump start if required.
nelly1 said:
Bodmin said:
Check your wiring can cope first.
The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
Er, sorry but that's nonsense!The wiring to a cigarette lighter socket is not designed to take long periods of electrical current passing through it, in either direction....the lighter element is usually on for less than a minute not hours at a time.
Basically the higher the current the higher the heat within the wire & there is a risk of the wires insulation melting & creating a dead short i.e a fire risk.
This problem first became evident to vehicle manufactures when mobile phone kits came with lighter adapter sockets. The resulting damage that I have seen has ranged from wiring loom damage to ECU failures on many makes of vehicle. This is why in modern cars you will now find a specific accessory 12V plug socket which has uprated wiring.
Bodders
The wiring to the cigarette lighter will be, and has always been rated to cope with the current drawn by the lighter. It will be fused to prevent damage to the wiring.
The wiring will typically be 1.5 to 2.5 mm2, and the fuse is typically 15-20amps.
A typical charger ie. Accumate, can supply a maximum of 1.2amps, so even connected forever and a day there will be no risk of damage to the wiring.
The only way you could damage something is if you tried to jump start the vehicle through the socket, but the worst that could happen is that you would blow the fuse, as it's only function is to protect the wiring.
A mobile phone charger would supply negligable current, so I'm not sure how you arrive at your claim that they can damage the ECU and / or wiring loom.
Jump starting a car with a dead battery can possibly cause damage to the ECU due to the voltage surge at the instant of connection - maybe this is what you meant?
Oh, and the reason you see a 'dedicated' socket rather than a cigarette lighter these days is:-
1 - to save costs of fitting the lighter - you have to pay extra for a 'smokers pack' &
2 - it's more PC to have a power / accessory socket.
Edited by nelly1 on Thursday 15th January 09:00
This is closely related to a query I had reference to the solar powered conditioners. My Tuscan is kept outside away from any electrical source and not always used on a weekly basis.
I have been considering one of these in an attempt to keep the battery conditioned for longer than normal.
I've read they do work to a certain extent, but I also had a niggling quesion whether left on the dash and plugged into the lighter socket would create any risk of fire.
Your thoughts anyone?
Keith
S1mon. said:
I have one of these trickle chargers Optimate type things that i have plugged into my bike. Thing is if i get one of these adaptors to plug in the cigar socket will it help until i can get a proper lead on it later.
Just a quick point, make sure it has a switch on it saying 6v/12v. 
Tuskaa 7 said:
Hi Guys,
This is closely related to a query I had reference to the solar powered conditioners. My Tuscan is kept outside away from any electrical source and not always used on a weekly basis.
I have been considering one of these in an attempt to keep the battery conditioned for longer than normal.
I've read they do work to a certain extent, but I also had a niggling question whether left on the dash and plugged into the lighter socket would create any risk of fire.
Your thoughts anyone?
I would have thought with the amount of sun we actually get that you'd be better off with one of those windmill things...This is closely related to a query I had reference to the solar powered conditioners. My Tuscan is kept outside away from any electrical source and not always used on a weekly basis.
I have been considering one of these in an attempt to keep the battery conditioned for longer than normal.
I've read they do work to a certain extent, but I also had a niggling question whether left on the dash and plugged into the lighter socket would create any risk of fire.
Your thoughts anyone?
Not sure what it would do for the aerodynamics though
Seriously - the current supplied from such a charger would be about an amp or less, and would certainly NOT cause any stress to your wiring.
s6boy said:
S1mon. said:
I have one of these trickle chargers Optimate type things that i have plugged into my bike. Thing is if i get one of these adaptors to plug in the cigar socket will it help until i can get a proper lead on it later.
Just a quick point, make sure it has a switch on it saying 6v/12v. Optimate works fine on my bikes amd car,no switch to alternate different voltage needed
nelly1 said:
Bodmin said:
As above
Bodders
Er, sorry but that's nonsense!Bodders
The wiring to the cigarette lighter will be, and has always been rated to cope with the current drawn by the lighter. It will be fused to prevent damage to the wiring.
The wiring will typically be 1.5 to 2.5 mm2, and the fuse is typically 15-20amps.
A typical charger ie. Accumate, can supply a maximum of 1.2amps, so even connected forever and a day there will be no risk of damage to the wiring.
The only way you could damage something is if you tried to jump start the vehicle through the socket, but the worst that could happen is that you would blow the fuse, as it's only function is to protect the wiring.
A mobile phone charger would supply negligable current, so I'm not sure how you arrive at your claim that they can damage the ECU and / or wiring loom.
Jump starting a car with a dead battery can possibly cause damage to the ECU due to the voltage surge at the instant of connection - maybe this is what you meant?
Oh, and the reason you see a 'dedicated' socket rather than a cigarette lighter these days is:-
1 - to save costs of fitting the lighter - you have to pay extra for a 'smokers pack' &
2 - it's more PC to have a power / accessory socket.
Edited by nelly1 on Thursday 15th January 09:00
Some cars had to be recovered in because of subsequent spiking of the ECU where the loom had been damaged. Vauxhall released a technical service bulletin on the matter & would refuse any warranty claim if there was evidence of the socket being used to power anything other that the lighter itself...as one large estate agency in Brighton found out to their cost at the time, they then tried to sue the mobile phone company for the damages.
You have to remember that until around that time mobile phones in cars had been mostly hard wired in but with the explosion of smaller, lighter hand held units this issue came to the surface.
This was also the case at dealerships for Renault,Saab & Peugeout that I have worked for but at Mercedes they did not seem to have come across this problem, must have used a better grade wiring in the first place.
I did not say the wire could not take the current but that it was the excess HEAT that was the issue. The manufacturer, probably due to cost, used a diameter of wire that could cope with the current without excessive heat build up for a predetermined amount of TIME. The fuse will not always protect the wire as the build up of heat is not instant like a short circuit or power surge.
If the Optimates/Accumates only draws a max of 1.2amps then that is very low as most battery chargers run at 8amps plus & that was my concern.
If you are stating 100% that no ones car is at risk then that is a very brave statement to make.
The OP really needs to get clarification from the charger manufacturer, as there is no factory to ask anymore, so that if there was, God forbid, an electrical fire his insurance company could not use it as an excuse for rejecting a claim.
Bodders
Edited by Bodmin on Thursday 15th January 16:20
I'm pretty sure that Accumate wouldn't produce a cigarette socket adapter if there was a great risk as I'm sure they'd be opening themselves up for subsequent claims.
There must be hundreds (if not thousands) of people who use those adapters, me included, who've experienced no problems over many years. I use one now and I had an trickle charger connected via the cig lighter on My Lotus Elan over 20 years ago and had no issues over a number of years.
I agree trying to jump the car via the lighter would probably cause problems (blown fuse hopefully) but that's not what the OP asked.
ETA I forgot to mention the main reason I posted. After this was raised (Yes I know in the middle of the night) I went and plugged the Accumate in and this morning I felt the cigar adapter and the socket side and there wasn't any heat which I'd expect if there was any issue
There must be hundreds (if not thousands) of people who use those adapters, me included, who've experienced no problems over many years. I use one now and I had an trickle charger connected via the cig lighter on My Lotus Elan over 20 years ago and had no issues over a number of years.
I agree trying to jump the car via the lighter would probably cause problems (blown fuse hopefully) but that's not what the OP asked.
ETA I forgot to mention the main reason I posted. After this was raised (Yes I know in the middle of the night) I went and plugged the Accumate in and this morning I felt the cigar adapter and the socket side and there wasn't any heat which I'd expect if there was any issue
Edited by V8 GRF on Thursday 15th January 17:05
My Tuscan 2 has an advisory note in the TVR handbook re-amperage of trickle chargers and has a specific 12v point without ciggy lighter in the dash. I have 3 accummates, one hardwired in the boot of my Chim, but I always use the cigarette lighter (can't be bothered to leave the boot open, even with the light removed). But for safety sake I try to unplug at night. 12-15 hours usually gets the green light ON unless it's been left a very long time without running. I can't understand why ACCUMMATE always sell the ciggy adapter as a separate component and doesn't come with the two other ACCUMMATE leads in the box.
I have a ciggy lighter MICHELIN tyre inflator/pump , which works great on the Tuscan and my BMW but it struggles on the Chim giving ERROR Codes and I'm sure it's the output from the ciggy lighter.
I have a ciggy lighter MICHELIN tyre inflator/pump , which works great on the Tuscan and my BMW but it struggles on the Chim giving ERROR Codes and I'm sure it's the output from the ciggy lighter.
Edited by glow worm on Thursday 15th January 18:21
Mate, there are loads of threads on here about Accumates/Optimates, just plug it in and forget it. They are intelligent and polarity protected so no worries. My Griff's been on one for 8 years, plus the Healey and the Aston. Great bits of kit and no need to over complicate it like some people do...
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