Dodgy TVR dealer
Discussion
I have just found out to my horror that the TVR 400se I purchased last year from a certain main dealer near 
, appears to have been 'ringed'.
I admit that I knew little or nothing about the breed at the time of buying, so I thought I'll play safe and buy from a main dealer. The car I purchased was reg'd on a Y plate, but not knowing any different I purchased the car. Once I joined the TVRCC and spoke to the model registrar the horrors began. He confirmed that the chassis number belonged to a Tasmin 200 and that the number plate was also from this car.
To cut a long story short, I have now contacted the Police etc, as it appears that I have bought a car that has the VIN plate and chassis number of an earlier car.
How on earth can a TVR dealer get away with this ! It should have been obvious to them that this car 'ringed'
after all it only takes a few phone calls to the write people. The dealer in question refuses to give a refund, and insists he has done nothing wrong !
Looks like I could lose the car and all my money.
Please be very weary of this dealer.
Ian V
, appears to have been 'ringed'. I admit that I knew little or nothing about the breed at the time of buying, so I thought I'll play safe and buy from a main dealer. The car I purchased was reg'd on a Y plate, but not knowing any different I purchased the car. Once I joined the TVRCC and spoke to the model registrar the horrors began. He confirmed that the chassis number belonged to a Tasmin 200 and that the number plate was also from this car.
To cut a long story short, I have now contacted the Police etc, as it appears that I have bought a car that has the VIN plate and chassis number of an earlier car.
How on earth can a TVR dealer get away with this ! It should have been obvious to them that this car 'ringed'
after all it only takes a few phone calls to the write people. The dealer in question refuses to give a refund, and insists he has done nothing wrong !
Looks like I could lose the car and all my money.
Please be very weary of this dealer.
Ian V
Ian,
Sounds crap and I wish you luck with your fight. Do an HPI check and if the car is of a dubious state then I'm sure you have legal redress. If you are about to enter a legal battle then posting messages on here won't help you. A salutary lesson to anyone buying a car to ensure it all checks out.
I'd appreciate it if you'd abide by the rules regarding naming and shaming and cross posting on here.
Ted
Sounds crap and I wish you luck with your fight. Do an HPI check and if the car is of a dubious state then I'm sure you have legal redress. If you are about to enter a legal battle then posting messages on here won't help you. A salutary lesson to anyone buying a car to ensure it all checks out.
I'd appreciate it if you'd abide by the rules regarding naming and shaming and cross posting on here.
Ted
Aren't all dealers obliged by law to do a HPI check? (otherwise how would they know if it had outstanding finace on it?)
A while back when I had a problem about a car's past I phoned the RAC legal helpline (they don't ask for your membership number by the way). They said that legally a dealer must make all reasonable investigations to ensure that the car they are selling is what they purport it to be (including mileage). They obvioulsy did not. Try getting in touch with trading standards and the Retail Motor Industry Federation.
A while back when I had a problem about a car's past I phoned the RAC legal helpline (they don't ask for your membership number by the way). They said that legally a dealer must make all reasonable investigations to ensure that the car they are selling is what they purport it to be (including mileage). They obvioulsy did not. Try getting in touch with trading standards and the Retail Motor Industry Federation.
Are the dealers concerned still TVR main dealers?
According to TVR Engineering they are not, but a thread elsewhere on Gassing Station suggests that they are still telling visitors to their showroom that they are frachised dealers.
I agree with the policy of not 'naming and shaming' but Ian first raised the question of his car back in December and the identity of the dealer concerned was revealed then
According to TVR Engineering they are not, but a thread elsewhere on Gassing Station suggests that they are still telling visitors to their showroom that they are frachised dealers.
I agree with the policy of not 'naming and shaming' but Ian first raised the question of his car back in December and the identity of the dealer concerned was revealed then
Are you really sure that the chassis plate and VIN number are from an earlier car and not that the car you have purchased is effectively a 400SE replica built on an earlier chassis. It is not uncommon for replicas to exist (ie Ace's turn into Cobras, Grantura's into Griffiths, Vixens into Tuscans, M's into Turbos, etc). What is on the V5??
However if this is the case then the car should have been sold to you as a replica (and priced accordingly).
This would suggest that you car has not been 'ringed', ie its identity switched, but someone has taken a cheap Tasmin200 and turned it into a more expensive 400SE. Now the dealer in question may or may not have known about this, but should have checked into it in more detail when they acquired the vehicle. There are other early Tasmins that have been turned into V8s.
This would also mean that you are the legal owner of a Tasmin200, with a V8 and a 400 body and therefore you are unlikely to loose the car, however you are obviously at this stage out of pocket as either:-
a) you would have not bought the car in the first place
or b) it should have been priced as a replica
Did the dealer actually own the car or is the previous owners details still on the V5, if so get in touch find out about the history of the car. He may have made the mods, or sold the car to the dealer as a replica, or may not have known himself, either way its worth finding out. This may assist your case, but equally it may add to the mystery.
Best of luck
David
However if this is the case then the car should have been sold to you as a replica (and priced accordingly).
This would suggest that you car has not been 'ringed', ie its identity switched, but someone has taken a cheap Tasmin200 and turned it into a more expensive 400SE. Now the dealer in question may or may not have known about this, but should have checked into it in more detail when they acquired the vehicle. There are other early Tasmins that have been turned into V8s.
This would also mean that you are the legal owner of a Tasmin200, with a V8 and a 400 body and therefore you are unlikely to loose the car, however you are obviously at this stage out of pocket as either:-
a) you would have not bought the car in the first place
or b) it should have been priced as a replica
Did the dealer actually own the car or is the previous owners details still on the V5, if so get in touch find out about the history of the car. He may have made the mods, or sold the car to the dealer as a replica, or may not have known himself, either way its worth finding out. This may assist your case, but equally it may add to the mystery.
Best of luck
David
A HPI check wouldnt guarantee legal cover unless you paid for a gold check and then it would only cover for anything they failed to tell you. A ringer is highly unlikely to come up on HPI because the chassis and plate are not likely to be recorded (scrap or ins w/o) so they would be clear. the only chance of HPI comin up trumps would be if there details showed it as a Tasmin when you knew the car was a 400se, this is unlikely though as the DVLA dont give a monkeys about such things and would normally just change any details if they receive a letter from the registered keeper.
Dont beat yourself up though as you can do all the homework you like and still get caught out. I'm in the trade (motorbikes) and can get caught out occasionally myself. I would say that there is a very good chance that the dealer didnt know it was a ringer, I would also say that i should have thought it would be in his benefit to refud you.
FINALLY and most importantly, how did you pay? if it was by credit card or finance agreement there is a 99% chance they will refund your money, check it out.
Good god i've never typed that much on here before, i need a rest.
The car is most definatley not a replica. I have spoken to the factory at length about this, as this too was my first thought. They have told be that there is no way a 400se shell and running gear could be fitted to a Tasmin 200 chassis as the chassis is completly different. From the information they have given to me I am 100% certain the car is a 400se, and this is what the dealer's invoice sold me.
I am still gutted at present to think that a TVR franchise would or could do this. To say that they may not have known about the car I cannot believe. As we all know (myself included now) the 400se was not built until 1988, so how could they take in a car, clearly a 400se, on a 1982 plate without alarm bells ringing
I am still gutted at present to think that a TVR franchise would or could do this. To say that they may not have known about the car I cannot believe. As we all know (myself included now) the 400se was not built until 1988, so how could they take in a car, clearly a 400se, on a 1982 plate without alarm bells ringing
Sorry to harp on the replica front, but....
1) Have you checked that the chassis is a 400 variant as I know of V8's that have been fitted to 280 chassis even though its not supposed to be possible. Steve Heath (shpub) should be able to help you on the differences. Is the rear suspension of the A frame type??
2) As for the body, anything in fibreglass can be made to fit, why there is a 390 chassis with a Tuscan Racer Body on it!!!
3) Have you checked with previous owners???
4) What is on the V5???
That aside if the dealers invoice says 400SE then you should have a 400SE and what you have is obviously not a 400SE
David
1) Have you checked that the chassis is a 400 variant as I know of V8's that have been fitted to 280 chassis even though its not supposed to be possible. Steve Heath (shpub) should be able to help you on the differences. Is the rear suspension of the A frame type??
2) As for the body, anything in fibreglass can be made to fit, why there is a 390 chassis with a Tuscan Racer Body on it!!!
3) Have you checked with previous owners???
4) What is on the V5???
That aside if the dealers invoice says 400SE then you should have a 400SE and what you have is obviously not a 400SE
David
quote:
Aren't all dealers obliged by law to do a HPI check? (otherwise how would they know if it had outstanding finace on it
When Team Central went bust in Feb 2001, the money for the sale of my Cerbera 4.2 dissapeared along with the Tuscan I was about to take delivery. The car was under finance and Team Central knew about it as they had arranged it. When they sold the car, the new owner re-financed it and but the finance company had not checked it was clear either (or had been told by Team Central it was clear possibly). If it wasn't for this I would have been in the deep dodo because this refinancing was illegal and it meant I could sue the second finance company to settle the outstanding money.
This left me with no Cerbera, no Tuscan and a final payment to make. Fortunately after legal advice, the second finance company were persued and eventually after 3 months paid up. I still lost the Tuscan and the deposit but the drop in residuals has been twice that so in a strange sort of way I probably saved money!
This was not an isolated caes and there were many who had paid cash for their cars and lost the lot. Team Central went bust with debts of around 1.5+ million and assets of around 70K pounds.
The crazy thing is that according to the lawyers, I have more protection buying a secondhand car than ordering a new one.
Moral: do not assume anything and check everything you can. Any doubt, walk away.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
This left me with no Cerbera, no Tuscan and a final payment to make.
I am a serial bad buyer of cars. Despite knowing enough about cars to spot the good from the bad, the head goes out the window, the heart takes over, I put my money down and drive away. As you can imagine - I have been burn't quite terribly in the past!!
BUT, BUT, BUT - the one thing, the ONLY thing, I religously do EVERY TIME is look at the chassis number, the engine number, the V5 and, most crucially of all, compare the whole lot to a full bells and whistle HPI check.
Wouldn't have helped Steve though....
JB (currently owning a 'nice, sir' 9 year old Chimaera with a three year gap in the service history - still, touch wood, 1600 miles so far and no hint of trouble...MORE WOOD.. MORE WOOD!)
>> Edited by beljames on Friday 19th April 19:52
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