If TVR went bust
Discussion
I think that 3 yr old Cerberas are only 'slightly' more expensive to run than a comparable Griff/Chim. OK there is a risk re higher costs as the engine is arguably more fragile.
I have a 98 S 4.5 Cerb. I have a potential big bill looming for some engine work (ie £1.5K - 5K depending). But Chims/Griffs can easily start to get close to this for 'major' work. If you use an independent then the hrly costs are much the same and so I reckon I might end up spending about 25% more running the cerb than a Griff/Chim. I also think I get a lot more car (power, seats, looks, handling etc). So worth the premium.
I have a 98 S 4.5 Cerb. I have a potential big bill looming for some engine work (ie £1.5K - 5K depending). But Chims/Griffs can easily start to get close to this for 'major' work. If you use an independent then the hrly costs are much the same and so I reckon I might end up spending about 25% more running the cerb than a Griff/Chim. I also think I get a lot more car (power, seats, looks, handling etc). So worth the premium.
quote:I guess I'm just rying to say that we shouldn't not talk them down or up for that matter but rather be honest about TVR. They're an imaginative manufacturer with some great products that deserve to survive. But if they don't take more care of their reputation in the longer term they'll fritter away customer loyalty and goodwill no matter what we here might say.
Manek, I agree fully. I'm not trying to talk them down, I'm just expressing my concern for the huge gamble PW has made with his new era model line up. From what I know of your situation your Chimp seems a good example of the benefits of the 1990s TVR era - cheap to buy, reliable, fairly unburstable mechanics and cheap to run - and through the performance and noise factor in and we can all see why the Chimp was such a winner.
If we could rewind time I wish I'd bought my first TVR in 92 (a new 4.5BV Griff would have been nice) instead of waiting until 94 to buy 2nd hand - can't say I feel the same confidence 10 years on.....
Mike.
We've all had those conversations:
Q: 'What car have you got?'
A: 'TVR Chimaera'
Q: 'Don't they break down all the time?'
It doesn't have to be and shouldn't be like that with today's manufacturing and computer technologies. Maybe it will take the NEXT generation of TVR owners to get that bit right.
quote:
Sometimes its down to the components and thats just the luck of the draw.
Pah...! Luck of the draw my ar$e. This is one of the few gripes I have with TVR. The quality of some of the components they buy in is dismal, they know it's dismal and do nothing about it. Look at the number of niggly problems and stranded cars over the years that were caused by a faulty door/boot solenoid or a duff switch or a cheap relay. I wouldn't care but more often than not the 'Genuine Bosch' solenoid or whatever is only about 50p more than the crappy unbranded / generic taiwanese job they stick on there. Easy fix, but it seems nobody cares. Shame.
Still, wouldn't stop me from buying one if I had the cash. Yay...! Toys...!
quote:
I think that 3 yr old Cerberas are only 'slightly' more expensive to run than a comparable Griff/Chim. OK there is a risk re higher costs as the engine is arguably more fragile.
I have a 98 S 4.5 Cerb. I have a potential big bill looming for some engine work (ie £1.5K - 5K depending). But Chims/Griffs can easily start to get close to this for 'major' work. If you use an independent then the hrly costs are much the same and so I reckon I might end up spending about 25% more running the cerb than a Griff/Chim. I also think I get a lot more car (power, seats, looks, handling etc). So worth the premium.
From what I recall of servicing costs, petrol, insurance, ongoing repair work, a Cerbera can easily cost 2x what it costs to run a Chimaera or Griffith. Check out Ben Pike's breakdown of running a 4.5 for a year (www.pikeynet.com): his experience is not uncommon.
quote:
I think that 3 yr old Cerberas are only 'slightly' more expensive to run than a comparable Griff/Chim. OK there is a risk re higher costs as the engine is arguably more fragile.
I have a 98 S 4.5 Cerb. I have a potential big bill looming for some engine work (ie £1.5K - 5K depending). But Chims/Griffs can easily start to get close to this for 'major' work. If you use an independent then the hrly costs are much the same and so I reckon I might end up spending about 25% more running the cerb than a Griff/Chim. I also think I get a lot more car (power, seats, looks, handling etc). So worth the premium.
Boy, are you in for a shock, 'gazzab'! You should have bought a nice 911...
quote:
quote:
Sometimes its down to the components and thats just the luck of the draw.
Pah...! Luck of the draw my ar$e. This is one of the few gripes I have with TVR. The quality of some of the components they buy in is dismal, they know it's dismal and do nothing about it. Look at the number of niggly problems and stranded cars over the years that were caused by a faulty door/boot solenoid or a duff switch or a cheap relay. I wouldn't care but more often than not the 'Genuine Bosch' solenoid or whatever is only about 50p more than the crappy unbranded / generic taiwanese job they stick on there. Easy fix, but it seems nobody cares. Shame.
Still, wouldn't stop me from buying one if I had the cash. Yay...! Toys...!
Just wait till you get home tonight. You know what I meant by that - we will discuss it later.
quote:I was addressing Ben not you, who incidentally answered my comment without swearing.
So who's being a condescending asle now then RichB? .....
quote:Don't remember saying that, or indeed commenting on the reliability issue concerning the S6 engine at all, so you are on the wrong track there.
.....I take it you haven't owned a new era TVR so why the hell are you telling me that they're faultless .....
quote:Oh don't worry I wouldn't consider you and Ben as being the least bit similar, Ben has a sense of humour. R...
I must say I'm getting sick of this attitude where guys like you automatically label people like Ben and myself as wingers
My stock response is that in over three years of ownership, it's stranded me only once due a clutch master cylinder failure. Could happen to anyone. But there's always a shortlist of stuff that needs doing -- nothing critical, just niggles...
Which just happens to be true. I wonder how many Cerbera/Tuscan owners could say that?
[adopts flame-proof jacket, dives for cover
]
Which just happens to be true. I wonder how many Cerbera/Tuscan owners could say that?
[adopts flame-proof jacket, dives for cover
]quote:
We've all had those conversations:
Q: 'What car have you got?'
A: 'TVR Chimaera'
Q: 'Don't they break down all the time?'
The answer may be yes, (but it appears more usually to be no, in truth). However, any asker of this question should promptly be taken for a high speed drive in the car under discussion, with no conversation until the end of the drive, when the owner should simply say "Any more questions?"
quote:
The answer may be yes, (but it appears more usually to be no, in truth). However, any asker of this question should promptly be taken for a high speed drive in the car under discussion, with no conversation until the end of the drive, when the owner should simply say "Any more questions?"
just one....'so why didnt you buy a boxster'
:heh:
Bennno
quote:
quote:I was addressing Ben not you, who incidentally answered my comment without swearing.
So who's being a condescending as
quote:Don't remember saying that, or indeed commenting on the reliability issue concerning the S6 engine at all, so you are on the wrong track there.
.....I take it you haven't owned a new era TVR so why the hell are you telling me that they're faultless .....quote:Oh don't worry I wouldn't consider you and Ben as being the least bit similar, Ben has a sense of humour. R...
I must say I'm getting sick of this attitude where guys like you automatically label people like Ben and myself as wingers
Oh I'm so sorry RichB, I must appologies for swearing at you. You know you're so right, having re-read your previous post I just can't understand how I could misinterpret your witty response
Mike.
quote:
quote:
The answer may be yes, (but it appears more usually to be no, in truth). However, any asker of this question should promptly be taken for a high speed drive in the car under discussion, with no conversation until the end of the drive, when the owner should simply say "Any more questions?"
just one....'so why didnt you buy a boxster'
:heh:
Bennno
clearly because they're tooooo cheap to run (ergo a hairdressers car
) - couldn't be doing with that could we TVR fans? quote:
just one....'so why didnt you buy a boxster'
:heh:
Bennno
A: "'cos it's slow, common, and ugly.!"
Hey Benno, saw a nice new 360 spyder in Sheffield last night. Number plate spelt out "PO5IER" - I guess he meant poseur - tell you anything re Ferrari ownership? Or is it a little flowery girlie car? Perhaps TO55ER might be more appropriate...
>> Edited by nubbin on Thursday 2nd May 14:00
quote:
I understand the fleet-industry say most depreciation hits a car in the first year so only an absolute idiot would buy a sports car and flog it after a year
Well Rob, that makes me an idiot. I owned a '98 Griff 500 for less than a year and sold it. I could have continued to own it, but I was horrified every time I got into to find something else went wrong with it. (not just trivial shite either, engine rebuild, suspension rebuild etc etc). Overall cost for a year's ownership was 16k. I was looking forward to many years of ownership and pleasure but the bills it came back with were stratospheric.
Having followed TVR since I was in short pants, and researched the marque greatly before buying I thought I was buying a known quantity. I now will never own a TVR again, or if I do it will be when I more disposable income than I can shake a stick at.
As I've said before though, I still support the marque, I just think that like other high performace and prestige marques it's now beyond my financial powers to own. Like a few other PH'ers have noted, a TVR is an emotional purchase, not necessarily a sensible decision (but I think PW would be horrified if buyinga TVR was a sensible decision).
quote:
A: "'cos it's slow, common, and ugly.!"
Hey Benno, saw a nice new 360 spyder in Sheffield last night. Number plate spelt out "PO5IER" - I guess he meant poseur - tell you anything re Ferrari ownership? Or is it a little flowery girlie car? Perhaps TO55ER might be more appropriate...
It was a joke, seems you need a software revsion to V5 to sort the lack of humour and chip on shoulder about Ferrari's.
Surely you arent calling a 360 Spider a little flowery girls car???
Bennno
On component reliability: unlike, eg, Toyota, unfortunately TVR don't quite have the clout, at their scale, to line up their suppliers and say, sort it out or we'll take our business elsewhere ... most of them would probably breath a sigh of relief.
(credit where it's due: this (approximate) comment was first applied to Aston Martin by its then new MD whose name I can't remember)
(credit where it's due: this (approximate) comment was first applied to Aston Martin by its then new MD whose name I can't remember)
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