If TVR went bust
Discussion
The only way a large multi-national would buy TVR would be if the product filled a niche market that that company didn't have a presence in. That's why Ford bought Jaguar so they could stop making the awful Granada/Scorpio, and why they bought Aston - although the latter ovelaps with the sports end of Jag. So who wants, as Clarkson put it, a portfolio of "loud, fast and scary" sports cars? Essentially, no-one. So, save your money and we'll have a TVR lovers stockholding....
I cannot imangine that any of the major motor manufacturers would be remotely interested in TVR. They are not technological leaders like Lotus, and the 'factory' is a ramshackle collection of huts. A TVR designed by committee would not a TVR be, and the golden goose would be dead.
TVRs success in the 90s was mainly attributable to value for money. No other junior exotic was available for anywhere near the price of a Chim or a Griff. These days however the story is different. TVRs are more expensive (and the quality has not improved significantly) and their residual values are not as good as they were, whilst Porsches and BMs are relatively cheaper. The decision to buy a TVR is becoming less and less justifiable.
I owned a Griff 500 for three years and loved it, but I can't afford a Tuscan (and the Tamora is a Dog's Dinner). If I was in the market for a performance car now, I would probably go for an M3.
Reflecting on how much the Griff cost me to run (£44k over 3 years including depreciation!), I have decided that it is pointless running an expensive performance car day-to-day, so I am now building a bike-engined Locost instead:
www.loconinja.co.uk/
More thrills for less cash! All IMO, of course.
TVRs success in the 90s was mainly attributable to value for money. No other junior exotic was available for anywhere near the price of a Chim or a Griff. These days however the story is different. TVRs are more expensive (and the quality has not improved significantly) and their residual values are not as good as they were, whilst Porsches and BMs are relatively cheaper. The decision to buy a TVR is becoming less and less justifiable.
I owned a Griff 500 for three years and loved it, but I can't afford a Tuscan (and the Tamora is a Dog's Dinner). If I was in the market for a performance car now, I would probably go for an M3.
Reflecting on how much the Griff cost me to run (£44k over 3 years including depreciation!), I have decided that it is pointless running an expensive performance car day-to-day, so I am now building a bike-engined Locost instead:
www.loconinja.co.uk/
More thrills for less cash! All IMO, of course.
I'm with Christof here.
Part of the reason for me buying a TVR was it's uniqueness and its Britishness. My heart made me buy it - not my head.
Part of the pleasure of driving my Cerbera is that I am driving a unique car, built in a unique way.
We all worry about the quality issues (I've been pretty
lucky myself), but owning a car like this takes real commitment. I've owned classic sports cars in the past and the ownership experience is similar - worrisome but when things are going well, very rewarding. If people don't have the stomach for it, they shouldn't try it - buy a 911 instead.
My nightmare is for TVR to be bought by a big manufacturer, for the marketing guys to get a hold of the marque, and for normal people, who actually aren't
very interested in cars, to start buying them.
Part of the reason for me buying a TVR was it's uniqueness and its Britishness. My heart made me buy it - not my head.
Part of the pleasure of driving my Cerbera is that I am driving a unique car, built in a unique way.
We all worry about the quality issues (I've been pretty
lucky myself), but owning a car like this takes real commitment. I've owned classic sports cars in the past and the ownership experience is similar - worrisome but when things are going well, very rewarding. If people don't have the stomach for it, they shouldn't try it - buy a 911 instead.
My nightmare is for TVR to be bought by a big manufacturer, for the marketing guys to get a hold of the marque, and for normal people, who actually aren't
very interested in cars, to start buying them.
quote:
TVRs success in the 90s was mainly attributable to value for money. No other junior exotic was available for anywhere near the price of a Chim or a Griff. These days however the story is different. TVRs are more expensive (and the quality has not improved significantly) and their residual values are not as good as they were, whilst Porsches and BMs are relatively cheaper. The decision to buy a TVR is becoming less and less justifiable.
I can't afford a Tuscan (and the Tamora is a Dog's Dinner). If I was in the market for a performance car now, I would probably go for an M3.
TVR's success in the 80's, when PW took over, was due to the 'S' followed by the Griffmaera, catching the market for "curvy" retro-style, sports cars, and the value for money of the 'S'. I remember thinking about a wedge, but they were too expensive even then. They are relatively MORE affordable now, and for cheaper thrills, there's always the Elise. The Boxster is the sensible choice, if you prefer sensible over nuttiness, 911's are in a different price league, and the M3 would definitely be the day-to-day car of choice.
The quality has definitely improved, particularly with the Tamora, but it will never be up to mass-market standards, because they are hand built and hands make mistakes. Other cars do actually have build quality problems. It isn't just flawed TVR's inhabiting an otherwise perfectly built car world!! I'm sure you will learn how hand-built can affect quality, once your Locost is glued and nailed together! (But you'll forgive all the mistakes, draughts etc. because you built it, and I can't fault you at all for that!)
>> Edited by nubbin on Wednesday 1st May 10:41
Never mind if they went bust, what would the price be if they came up for sale?
As a private company what would the 'goodwill' amount be? It's fairly easy to work out the worth of a public company but a private one?
And what about SAV? I'm sure a guy from Blackpool won £11.5m on the lottery a few years back – pity tho, I think he was into bikes ...
As a private company what would the 'goodwill' amount be? It's fairly easy to work out the worth of a public company but a private one?
And what about SAV? I'm sure a guy from Blackpool won £11.5m on the lottery a few years back – pity tho, I think he was into bikes ...
If I bought TVR I would implement the following changes, for improved reliability, resale value, perceived quality from potential purchasers:
1. All engines would be bought in from either AMG / Brabus / Mercedes / BMW M Power / Hartge / Birds, in a similar manner to Pagani's Zonda. This releases huge funds to ensure all efforts are diverted to getting the chassis / body / bits right. Improved quality of all components and better handling would be on the cards for a start. A sports exhaust would be standard for that tiv sound of course, plus more power all round! All models entry power level would be 400bhp V8's. Supercharging will raise premium models to +500bhp without affecting reliability.
2. The line up would be cut down to two models. A new cerbera style 2+2 hard top coupe. Plus a new two seater with removable hard top. Focusing on getting these two models perfected will also improve all of the above. Would like to see more use of cutting edge materials across the range; carbon fibre, aluminium, ceramic brakes. Still no leccy gizmo's though.
quote:
If I bought TVR I would implement the following changes, for improved reliability, resale value, perceived quality from potential purchasers:
1. All engines would be bought in from either AMG / Brabus / Mercedes / BMW M Power / Hartge / Birds, in a similar manner to Pagani's Zonda. This releases huge funds to ensure all efforts are diverted to getting the chassis / body / bits right. Improved quality of all components and better handling would be on the cards for a start. A sports exhaust would be standard for that tiv sound of course, plus more power all round! All models entry power level would be 400bhp V8's. Supercharging will raise premium models to +500bhp without affecting reliability.
2. The line up would be cut down to two models. A new cerbera style 2+2 hard top coupe. Plus a new two seater with removable hard top. Focusing on getting these two models perfected will also improve all of the above. Would like to see more use of cutting edge materials across the range; carbon fibre, aluminium, ceramic brakes. Still no leccy gizmo's though.
Some good ideas there! I agree that TVR should buy in engines, maybe with a few tweaks to 'TVRise' them. My choice would be the Jag V8 as it has a claim to 'Britishness'.
Rationalisation of the range is a good idea too, as the Tamora is just a Tuscan in drag.
Plus I would include a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty and optional 'service included' package for a set price upon purchase, as on the new BMW's. Together with the new models this would send out a clear message to the general public that TVR has finally made a fresh start. Orders would pour in at an unprecedented rate.
With the massive projected profits rolling in who's to say TVR couldn't have their own design produced by one of the top companies, in five or so years down the line. This is what BMW did for Maclaren after all. Before you mention price, let me mention the new M5 will have a 500bhpV10 in a luxury 55k car. No reason why TVR couldn't have an exclusive engine, especially if it was implemented across the range for economies of scale.
I say get rid of the current guy in charge who's scared of foreign parts and move things forward.
I say get rid of the current guy in charge who's scared of foreign parts and move things forward.
Bollocks! What if the engines currently being produced are totally reliable? The cost of development has already been paid, and these engines will power the range for years. They have a 2 year warranty on the engines, so that would suggest the factory has confidence in them. The quality control would be improved by assigning workers to particular, repeated tasks, rather than having a gang work on every aspect of individual units i.e. have production lines for drivetrain, suspension, electrics, upholstery, finishing etc.
You have to agree that there is genuine progress in the quality of TVR's products. Shouldn't they be allowed to continue on this line, just as every other manufacturer in history has been allowed? Porsche, Ferrari et al. didn't get their products right overnight, did they, and Porsche nearly went under 20 years ago, 'cos no-one liked the 911 as it was. We're just getting back into more TVR bashing, when in fact they produce wonderful, idiosyncratic, mental machines, for sensible money. If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em!!
You have to agree that there is genuine progress in the quality of TVR's products. Shouldn't they be allowed to continue on this line, just as every other manufacturer in history has been allowed? Porsche, Ferrari et al. didn't get their products right overnight, did they, and Porsche nearly went under 20 years ago, 'cos no-one liked the 911 as it was. We're just getting back into more TVR bashing, when in fact they produce wonderful, idiosyncratic, mental machines, for sensible money. If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em!!
I'm not bashing tiv's, I love the looks & sound - awesome!
It's been a succesful formula for Pagani is what I'm saying. I personally find the idea of Maclaren F1 slaying performance combined with TVR looks and German reliability, for sensible money, very appealing. I'm sure I'm not alone either.
But isnt the Zonda £250,000 or thereabouts?
I agree with Nubbin I have to say. The AJP lumps seem to be very reliable of recent years and even the recent Rover engined cars seem to be trouble free most of the time.
I think TVR need to work on their process rather than their product line. They have seriously competitive product, all they really need to invest time in is quality and getting the most amount of work out of their production lines in the shortest amount of time.
Lets face it people know what they are getting from TVR, the relentless pursuit of power at the cost of everything else. Its what the cars are built for, its why we love 'em so long may then reign as far as I am concerned.
Matt.
I agree with Nubbin I have to say. The AJP lumps seem to be very reliable of recent years and even the recent Rover engined cars seem to be trouble free most of the time.
I think TVR need to work on their process rather than their product line. They have seriously competitive product, all they really need to invest time in is quality and getting the most amount of work out of their production lines in the shortest amount of time.
Lets face it people know what they are getting from TVR, the relentless pursuit of power at the cost of everything else. Its what the cars are built for, its why we love 'em so long may then reign as far as I am concerned.
Matt.
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