TVR Engines: What's the Truth?
Discussion
I'm seriously thinking about upgrading my 1999 Chim to a Tuscan S or Tamora.
Whichever I decide to go for I know I can't lose (it'll be a TVR after all) but I'm seriously worried about the integrity of the engines in both cars.
On the "If TVR went bust thread" one PistonHeader commented that there must be many potential Tuscan/Tamora buyers put off by such concerns.
I have to confess that my concern is based on nothing more than scare stories I have heard or read about.
I desperately want to put my money Blackpool's way (in fact I would rather stick with the Chim than buy another sports car) but I'm worried...
...but am I right to be concerned? Should I wait a couple of years for glitches to be ironed out and reliability to be proven (or otherwise)? My V8 powered Chimaera has given me not one problem (engine related or otherwise) but I do love those two new TVR models.
Whaddaya all think?
Whichever I decide to go for I know I can't lose (it'll be a TVR after all) but I'm seriously worried about the integrity of the engines in both cars.
On the "If TVR went bust thread" one PistonHeader commented that there must be many potential Tuscan/Tamora buyers put off by such concerns.
I have to confess that my concern is based on nothing more than scare stories I have heard or read about.
I desperately want to put my money Blackpool's way (in fact I would rather stick with the Chim than buy another sports car) but I'm worried...
...but am I right to be concerned? Should I wait a couple of years for glitches to be ironed out and reliability to be proven (or otherwise)? My V8 powered Chimaera has given me not one problem (engine related or otherwise) but I do love those two new TVR models.
Whaddaya all think?
Primarily from what I have read on here it seems that the Speed Six is now a sorted lump.
The problems stemmed from a bad batch of components that TVR bought in and I believe these have now been identified and removed leaving the recent Speed Six engines relatively trouble free.
As for the Tamora, well the chaps who have them absolutely rave about them and whilst they have early production niggles, nothing serious though and have been found by the early adopters here, flashers being number 2 off the production line for example. I would have thought that TVR have now started ironing out these problems at build if not eradicated them completely.
Whatever you decide, good luck and I am sure that you will love it!
Matt.
The problems stemmed from a bad batch of components that TVR bought in and I believe these have now been identified and removed leaving the recent Speed Six engines relatively trouble free.
As for the Tamora, well the chaps who have them absolutely rave about them and whilst they have early production niggles, nothing serious though and have been found by the early adopters here, flashers being number 2 off the production line for example. I would have thought that TVR have now started ironing out these problems at build if not eradicated them completely.
Whatever you decide, good luck and I am sure that you will love it!
Matt.
Go for it! My Tamora's engine is going well, and has that "unburstable" feel of a sorted engine. I know that's not terribly scientific, but how much of TVR is? I traded my '99 Chimaera for the Tamora, and apart from idling noise, I don't regret any aspect. It is such a superior car dynamically, speed-wise, and build-wise, that it is a huge step up as a driver's car. My girlfriend drove it the other day, and commented on how easy the controls are, and she couldn't drive the Chim because of the heavy clutch. The S6 has a 2 year warranty as standard also, which represents faith i the product. I actuallly believe that the old S6 problems are a thing of the past, and the 3.6 is the ideal size for the S6.
Got to agree with everything Nubbin's said. Other than the idling sound when cold the Tamora is superior in every department to my old 97 Chimaera, from the performance/handling down to the hood design.
You say that you'd like to give the Speed 6 time to be ironed out, well you already have. It's been in the Tuscan/Cerbera for a few years now.
Go for it. Test drive a Tamora and see what you think!
Cheers......... Andrew
You say that you'd like to give the Speed 6 time to be ironed out, well you already have. It's been in the Tuscan/Cerbera for a few years now.
Go for it. Test drive a Tamora and see what you think!
Cheers......... Andrew
As I lay on my death bed (hopefully in a few years time ) I can hear myself muttering...
...dammit, I wish I hadn't bought all those shares in the 90's.
...dammit, I shouldnt have got that tattoo of a lobster on my neck.
...dammit I wish I had hadn't smoked for so many years.
I can't hear me saying...Dammit I wish I had never owned a TVR.
(unless it was the cause of my demise)
.
I think you are right when you say that the S6 engined market may be bigger, I for one decided not to get a Tamora a few months back and instead got another Griff 500. For me it simply came down to money (not the purchase price as there was only a few pounds a month in it), but the service/running costs. A Rover V8 TVR is fairly much a known entity when it comes to costs, but the S6 engines never seem to be even remotely cheap when something goes wrong. What with regularly hearing of services that run over the £1000 mark it was enough to keep me on the Rover band wagon for now, maybe next year (I've been accused of changing my TVR everytime they need a service - it has been 5 TVR's in 6 years so far!) or 6000 miles.....
Neil V
Neil V
From all the mechanics I have spoken to that work with TVR's (Dealers and independents) they all pretty much say the same thing, the engines (accept for the odd component malfunction) are all very strong engines.
It’s the drivers that do the damage e.g. larging it when the engine is cold, driving through deep puddles and letting water get into the engines.
If you treat it with car, let it warm up first before driving off, not letting it lumber etc. then you _WILL_ be fine.
The engines are _SO_ powerful that the mistreatment is magnified, hence causing the problems.
I know a handful of TVR owners that treat their cars with courtesy and have _NEVER_ had abnormal failure of the drive train.
>> Edited by Ston on Friday 3rd May 11:49
It’s the drivers that do the damage e.g. larging it when the engine is cold, driving through deep puddles and letting water get into the engines.
If you treat it with car, let it warm up first before driving off, not letting it lumber etc. then you _WILL_ be fine.
The engines are _SO_ powerful that the mistreatment is magnified, hence causing the problems.
I know a handful of TVR owners that treat their cars with courtesy and have _NEVER_ had abnormal failure of the drive train.
>> Edited by Ston on Friday 3rd May 11:49
What seems to be the common concensus (SP?) these days on the SP6 (and TVRs own V8s) is that you have to warm them up before you let them loose. The old Rover V8 isnt as highly stressed and therefore can cope a little more with abuse when cold. However, it seems that the people that have had NO problems with their SP6 engines took the time to warm them well before blasting off.... Ok, so it is a bind, but for the performance and price what do you expect?
By the sounds of things I believe that the new engines are all sorted out now. Ok, so there may be the odd one that fails, but all manufacturers suffer this. From chatting to dealers, independants and owners the problems are rare and not as bad as some people might have you believe. There were a few bad ones, but these have been sorted now....
In fact, I will be putting my money where my mouth is soon...
Cheers,
Paul
By the sounds of things I believe that the new engines are all sorted out now. Ok, so there may be the odd one that fails, but all manufacturers suffer this. From chatting to dealers, independants and owners the problems are rare and not as bad as some people might have you believe. There were a few bad ones, but these have been sorted now....
In fact, I will be putting my money where my mouth is soon...
Cheers,
Paul
Got to say that mine is fabulous. The engine is still running wonderfully after 5600 miles. Just booked in for it's first service at TMS and been told it will be £550 inclusive of VAT. If it's any more than that I will let you know.
The engine must be sorted, because mine feels bombproof and if it does go wrong I will be on here telling the truth. Basicly my advice is to buy through a dealer and get a warranty then you haven't got anything to worry about.
I have been assured by several people in Blackpool that the engines are now sorted, lets wait and see before calling them liars.....
The engine must be sorted, because mine feels bombproof and if it does go wrong I will be on here telling the truth. Basicly my advice is to buy through a dealer and get a warranty then you haven't got anything to worry about.
I have been assured by several people in Blackpool that the engines are now sorted, lets wait and see before calling them liars.....
I have a Chim and do the 4 mile commute in it every day.
Generally I will let it idle for a short period, usually less than a minute to settle down and come off the choke etc. Then its under 2500rpm for most of the journey giving it a little clearout just before I get to work, nothing excessive but over 2500rpm.
Engine seems fine for it, bit of a lumpy idle now and again but I think everything is staying together.
Unless of course the mechanical guru's out there can see some obvious erros.
I believe the principal is generally the same for the AJP engines.
Matt.
Generally I will let it idle for a short period, usually less than a minute to settle down and come off the choke etc. Then its under 2500rpm for most of the journey giving it a little clearout just before I get to work, nothing excessive but over 2500rpm.
Engine seems fine for it, bit of a lumpy idle now and again but I think everything is staying together.
Unless of course the mechanical guru's out there can see some obvious erros.
I believe the principal is generally the same for the AJP engines.
Matt.
From what I've just read here things sound more positive than I'd thought. I'd not heard about needing to let the tuscans warm up first. Do you think this is where all the possible engine problems stem from, where people don't bother? If thats the reason then the problems can easily be avoided then. (?)
A similar thing exists on a Porsche turbo in that you have to let the car engine run a little when you've finished your blast around. This allowes the circulating oil to cool the turbo's down. If people don't bother the turbo's life is buggered. Costs about 3k I've heard for new ones.
A similar thing exists on a Porsche turbo in that you have to let the car engine run a little when you've finished your blast around. This allowes the circulating oil to cool the turbo's down. If people don't bother the turbo's life is buggered. Costs about 3k I've heard for new ones.
I bet there are more engines that have failed because of mistreatment than have failed because of dodgy components.
Its not just sports cars either, letting a car get its oil warm before thrashing it is just common sense best practice.
As for the Turbo thing thats always been the case. My first car, albeit for about 3 months was a very old Renault 5 Gordini Turbo and that needed warming and cooling. The modern turbos are less prone to failing through not being cooled but failure can still happen because of it.
Matt.
Its not just sports cars either, letting a car get its oil warm before thrashing it is just common sense best practice.
As for the Turbo thing thats always been the case. My first car, albeit for about 3 months was a very old Renault 5 Gordini Turbo and that needed warming and cooling. The modern turbos are less prone to failing through not being cooled but failure can still happen because of it.
Matt.
Buying my Griffith a few years ago, on the test drive the sales guy was quite careful to get the oil had warm before he allowed me to give it some welly. When I subsequently took delivery of my new Griff they supplied their own notes on “looking after your TVR” the running-in and warming-up advice was quite clear, "Never rev the engine above 2,500 rpm when it is cold, even when fully run-in". I always ensure the temperature gauge has moved towards the 75 deg' mark before exceeding 2,500 revs' usually this takes about 5-8 mins. I wonder how many other dealers stress this on test drives or reinforce the point when the keys are handed over? I see this as part of the charm of the car after all we all read about the stiffness of a Ferrari’s gearbox until it has warmed through, journalists talk about it as part of the Ferrari experience, same is true of getting the TVR's engine thoroughly warm before going for it! R...
Bingo Richb.... thats what owners manuals are for - a quick check in mine (Chimaera 4.0HC) says exactly the same thing - you have to be careful with these things and you cannot expect to just jump in and blast off.... that is for owners of Fords and Vauxhalls. Stick to the owners manual and you would be fine - but of course most people dont and there comes the trouble.
I guess that the important thing to remember is that a SP6 engine is at least 350Bhp for 3.6 or 4.0. Now thats a lot of power for a small engine (comparitively). As a result treat them with a little respect and mechanical sympathy and you would be fine for 1000's of motoring miles..... treat them like shit and guess what - they bite back. As the short comment in Evo magazine in the buyers guide says - "TVR, a mistress and not a servant". Kinda sums it up really....
Cheers,
Paul
I guess that the important thing to remember is that a SP6 engine is at least 350Bhp for 3.6 or 4.0. Now thats a lot of power for a small engine (comparitively). As a result treat them with a little respect and mechanical sympathy and you would be fine for 1000's of motoring miles..... treat them like shit and guess what - they bite back. As the short comment in Evo magazine in the buyers guide says - "TVR, a mistress and not a servant". Kinda sums it up really....
Cheers,
Paul
I have got into the habit, whilst running-in the Tamora, of keeping to less than 3000 revbs when cold, and 2500 on first starting. It isn't too much of a bind, and I allow the oil to reach 45-50oC before larging it. I'm exclusively using Optimax, which as you will see from this month's EVO, really does clean the engine and prevent deposits, and once onto Mobil 1 at next service, I guess it's goodbye to engine wear! Other than that the engine gets plenty of opportunities to, ahem, clear it's throat!!
I have a 4l Tuscan used everyday. The trip to work is only 2miles, lazy I know so I have to drive carefully as it doesn't warm up. On longer trips when warm I will drive it hard and use all the power. No problems with me I've done nearly 12,000miles now. It does have slightly higher oil consumption which is because of its cold use and when hot being driven hard. This is not as much as trackday consumption though.
The only thing to note is the manual tappets that normaly need a little fetling every 6,000 miles if the car is driven hard rather than the 12,000 stated, but this is very much down to individual cars and owners.
It is interesting to note the BMW M5 limits the revs automatically from cold till the engine warms up. The SP6 which produced roughly the same power per litre just needs the same care.
The only thing to note is the manual tappets that normaly need a little fetling every 6,000 miles if the car is driven hard rather than the 12,000 stated, but this is very much down to individual cars and owners.
It is interesting to note the BMW M5 limits the revs automatically from cold till the engine warms up. The SP6 which produced roughly the same power per litre just needs the same care.
I had a Mk1 Golf GTi many years ago which had both a coolant and oil temperature gauge. It was suprising how much longer it took the oil to get upto temperature than the coolant. So when the temperature gauge reaches 70ish the oil is probably no where near running temperature.
>> Edited by Bob C on Friday 3rd May 14:22
>> Edited by Bob C on Friday 3rd May 14:22
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