Thoughts on a non-original spec Stag

[Skyedriver]

Monkeylegend said:

Whatever it was it was thrown together too quickly with little or no development. It was a lovely sounding engine if not very reliable at the time..

Sounds familiar in the sports car world

Don't know who you could possibly be referring too LOL.....

[Monkeylegend]

Skyedriver said:

Monkeylegend said:

Whatever it was it was thrown together too quickly with little or no development. It was a lovely sounding engine if not very reliable at the time..

Sounds familiar in the sports car world

Don't know who you could possibly be referring too LOL.....

If Porsche got their act together they could be really good engines

[//j17]

CAPP0 said:

Monkeylegend said:

I thought the V8 in the Stag was a development of the slant 4 engine used in the Dolomite Sprint.

I seem to recall that it was based on a doubled-up 1850 engine, rather than being based on the twin-cam/16V Sprint engine (and therefore becoming quad-cam/32V)?

The bottom half of the 1850 and Sprint engines are basically the same - and both single-cam at the top, though very different single-cam heads between 8v and 16v engines.

[300bhp/ton]

Monkeylegend said:

CAPP0 said:

Monkeylegend said:

I thought the V8 in the Stag was a development of the slant 4 engine used in the Dolomite Sprint.

I seem to recall that it was based on a doubled-up 1850 engine, rather than being based on the twin-cam/16V Sprint engine (and therefore becoming quad-cam/32V)?

Whatever it was it was thrown together too quickly with little or no development. It was a lovely sounding engine if not very reliable at the time..

Sounds familiar in the sports car world

I've never heard them being unreliable. The common thing was people cooking them and warping the head(s). Usually as a result of not running coolant only water in them. And/or the waterways sludging up.

The slant 4 was a good engine and went on to live in turbo format with Saab for many years. And apart from the sump design to allow the FWD gearbox to attach, I believe it changed very little. Didn't BL even build them for Saab for quite a period of time too?

[300bhp/ton]

//j17 said:

CAPP0 said:

Monkeylegend said:

I thought the V8 in the Stag was a development of the slant 4 engine used in the Dolomite Sprint.

I seem to recall that it was based on a doubled-up 1850 engine, rather than being based on the twin-cam/16V Sprint engine (and therefore becoming quad-cam/32V)?

The bottom half of the 1850 and Sprint engines are basically the same - and both single-cam at the top, though very different single-cam heads between 8v and 16v engines.

Remember there was a 2.0 litre slant 4 also, not just 1850. Although yes the Stag V8 was SOHC and 16v total.

[Monkeylegend]

300bhp/ton said:

I've never heard them being unreliable. The common thing was people cooking them and warping the head(s). Usually as a result of not running coolant only water in them. And/or the waterways sludging up.

Erm, that's what made them unreliable but I await your next argumentative post saying how wrong I am and it was the owners fault not the cars

[300bhp/ton]

Monkeylegend said:

Erm, that's what made them unreliable but I await your next argumentative post saying how wrong I am and it was the owners fault not the cars

There is a difference between abusing something and breaking it and claiming it as unreliable.

[Monkeylegend]

300bhp/ton said:

Monkeylegend said:

Erm, that's what made them unreliable but I await your next argumentative post saying how wrong I am and it was the owners fault not the cars

There is a difference between abusing something and breaking it and claiming it as unreliable.

Well lets see.

The well documented issues are:

Insufficient cooling capacity as a result of widening the bores from 2.5 to 3.0 litres.

Positioning of the water pump in the V of the engine so it sat too high in relation to the radiator and a small coolant leak would run it dry causing it to seize and resultant cooling issues. The drive gears also snapped without warning stopping coolant circulation.

It was also impossible to fill it with coolant properly unless the car was tilted back from the radiator to the water pump because of the height difference.

Location of the coolant temperature sensor in one of the cylinder heads, great for a four cylinder engine, but the Stag had two banks of four, so the one without the sensor would overheat but still show a normal running temp.

The aluminium engine also needed a special coolant to prevent internal corrosion and sludging up the cooling system.

The angle of the head studs were different, each head had two different length and angle studs resulting in them heating up at different rates, causing the heads to warp.

Main engine bearings were too small and regularly failed, and the timing chain was a single link and was very long resulting in stretching and breaking or jumping, not good on an interference engine resulting in damaged valves and pistons.

Apart from that it was fine

I am surprised with your encyclopedic knowledge you didn't know all this.

[300bhp/ton]

Monkeylegend said:

Well lets see.

The well documented issues are:

Insufficient cooling capacity as a result of widening the bores from 2.5 to 3.0 litres.

2.5 to 3.0 litres I assume you meant something else here

Monkeylegend said:

Positioning of the water pump in the V of the engine so it sat too high in relation to the radiator and a small coolant leak would run it dry causing it to seize and resultant cooling issues. The drive gears also snapped without warning stopping coolant circulation.

It was also impossible to fill it with coolant properly unless the car was tilted back from the radiator to the water pump because of the height difference.

Location of the coolant temperature sensor in one of the cylinder heads, great for a four cylinder engine, but the Stag had two banks of four, so the one without the sensor would overheat but still show a normal running temp.

So these are a list of design limitations, not unreliability.

Essentially if you run the right coolant mix in one today and have half a brain-cell, the Triumph V8 engine is likely to be perfectly reliable. Which is indeed the case for the majority still on the road.

Monkeylegend said:

The aluminium engine also needed a special coolant to prevent internal corrosion and sludging up the cooling system.

Utter nonsense, regular coolant is perfectly fine. FFS aluminium engines have been about for decades, even before the Stag. Or maybe you can post a link to some Stag only V8 coolant

BTW - aluminium heads, not block. And the Rover V8 (an older engine) is all aluminium.

[Monkeylegend]

300bhp/ton said:

Monkeylegend said:

Well lets see.

The well documented issues are:

Insufficient cooling capacity as a result of widening the bores from 2.5 to 3.0 litres.

2.5 to 3.0 litres I assume you meant something else here

Monkeylegend said:

Positioning of the water pump in the V of the engine so it sat too high in relation to the radiator and a small coolant leak would run it dry causing it to seize and resultant cooling issues. The drive gears also snapped without warning stopping coolant circulation.

It was also impossible to fill it with coolant properly unless the car was tilted back from the radiator to the water pump because of the height difference.

Location of the coolant temperature sensor in one of the cylinder heads, great for a four cylinder engine, but the Stag had two banks of four, so the one without the sensor would overheat but still show a normal running temp.

So these are a list of design limitations, not unreliability.

Essentially if you run the right coolant mix in one today and have half a brain-cell, the Triumph V8 engine is likely to be perfectly reliable. Which is indeed the case for the majority still on the road.

Monkeylegend said:

The aluminium engine also needed a special coolant to prevent internal corrosion and sludging up the cooling system.

Utter nonsense, regular coolant is perfectly fine. FFS aluminium engines have been about for decades, even before the Stag. Or maybe you can post a link to some Stag only V8 coolant

BTW - aluminium heads, not block. And the Rover V8 (an older engine) is all aluminium.

Clutching at straws I see

[anonymous-user]

The reasons they overheated was casting sand in the block waterways from the foundry. It was as simple as that,honest.
My last stag was standard, no electric fans and never overheated once and I had it for 12 years.

[Skyedriver]

Gents, can we return to the subject please, We have had the unreliability argument many times

[300bhp/ton]

Skyedriver said:

Gents, can we return to the subject please, We have had the unreliability argument many times

If you are happy with a non original car and it’s in a condition you accept and the right money. I can’t see a problem with it. In the UK I suspect it may impact value as the years tick by. As a stock Stag seems to be coming of age and prices reflecting this. But as a rule most Brits don’t like modded cars.

Ultimately the car you describe probably goes and drives better than a factory original. And is hardly likely to be a disappointment.

[//j17]

300bhp/ton said:

//j17 said:

CAPP0 said:

Monkeylegend said:

I thought the V8 in the Stag was a development of the slant 4 engine used in the Dolomite Sprint.

I seem to recall that it was based on a doubled-up 1850 engine, rather than being based on the twin-cam/16V Sprint engine (and therefore becoming quad-cam/32V)?

The bottom half of the 1850 and Sprint engines are basically the same - and both single-cam at the top, though very different single-cam heads between 8v and 16v engines.

Remember there was a 2.0 litre slant 4 also, not just 1850. Although yes the Stag V8 was SOHC and 16v total.

Was more trying to say that the Sprint engine was a overhead single-cam, not twin-cam 16v engine. The cam has 8 lobes that acts directly on the 8 inlet valves on one side of the head. The same lobes also act on rocker arms that act on the 8 exhaust valves on the other side of the head. Quite a cleaver, compact system but does mean you're limited to the same cam profile for inlet and exhaust and trying to change the relative valve timing (lift on overlap, etc) would mean changing the rocker arms, rather than just moving one cam relative to the other as you can on a twin-cam design.

[anonymous-user]

Skyedriver said:

Rover engine on a Holley carb, BMW rear diff/susp., but new leather and roof. Body looks OK but has a "few blisters" (sellers description). Needs a little finishing apparently.
Obviously not one for the originality people but possibly a nice car once completed?

Yes nice car, price accordingly for non original that needs finishing, no shortage of bits available. Obviously hinges on what he wants for the car £.

[Skyedriver]

Auction ended early................

Maybe had a decent offer....not me sadly
Messaged him yesterday about a viewing no reply, that's why I guess.

[Skyedriver]

Saga continues
Apparently ebay cocked up, removed the ad and he's extending the auction time by a day but the ad is no longer showing on ebay.
In addition, there's a video on the ad with the engine running but it is no longer a runner.
Defo needs a look before bidding but a non-starting engine?? Could be simple, might be a bit more too it.

[//j17]

Humm, a non-running engine is certainly something you need to take in to account when setting your personal highest bid. I mean how much to get it shipped 3.5hrs/hire a trailor/truck for a day to get it delivered/collect it?