Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
Barchettaman said:
Davie said:
.....all seasons over a bespoke winter tyre, just seems the better all rounder for the conditions, car and driver.
This.The current generation of all-season tyres are so good as to render a full winter tyre redundant, at least in 99.9% of UK winter conditions.
One just needs to decide if conditions require a more snow-biased design like the Nokian Weatherproof, or a dry/wet design with some snow capability like the new Bridgestone 005.
Edited by Barchettaman on Friday 16th November 23:43
Interesting video showing how 4wd brakes better than 2wd in the snow.
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
300bhp/ton said:
Interesting video showing how 4wd brakes better than 2wd in the snow.
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
Yes, but what tyres were fitted to the "trucks" used for a comparison in that clip (I couldn't bear more than 30 seconds of the presenter). Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
300bhp/ton said:
Interesting video showing how 4wd brakes better than 2wd in the snow.
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
All that video proves is his truck uses an older ABS system. Modern ABS systems will allow far more individual wheel control than relying on engine braking to help can.Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
300bhp/ton said:
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
I'll ignore the accuracy of using a stopwatch whilst driving a car and the potential for subconscious bias to affect the results.A pickup such as the one in the video with its high centre of gravity and negligible weight over the rear wheels is going to have a very extreme amount of front brake bias built in - far more than any small city car, let alone longer wheelbase saloon cars and estates.
ABS adjusts the front/rear brake bias so the rear brakes don't need to be downsized to avoid them locking up under heavy braking. Gone are the days of rudimentary spring loaded proportioning valves or even worse, static brake bias.
Almost any vehicle made in the last 20 years with ABS is already going to have more than enough braking capability on the rear wheels to negate any benefit from the additional engine braking that 4WD can provide.
Would it not have been better to make your point in your 4WD v winter tyres thread?
Edited by jagnet on Monday 19th November 05:39
jagnet said:
SVS said:
Barchettaman said:
... or a dry/wet design with some snow capability like the new Bridgestone 005.
Does the Bridgestone T005 have any snow capability? 
Mr Tidy said:
Yes, but what tyres were fitted to the "trucks" used for a comparison in that clip (I couldn't bear more than 30 seconds of the presenter).
It's worth watching the entire clip for the info at the end. It's a good YT channel and has lots of very interesting videos.Tyres, well it doesn't really matter as the comparison was the same vehicle in 2wd and 4wd. That said they tyres look like winters at the end of the vid.
jon- said:
300bhp/ton said:
Interesting video showing how 4wd brakes better than 2wd in the snow.
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
All that video proves is his truck uses an older ABS system. Modern ABS systems will allow far more individual wheel control than relying on engine braking to help can.Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
well. So long as they 'look' like Winters...... that should be fine.
ffs.
Don't ffs me, why does it matter if it's winters or not? It's the same vehicle being used with the same tyres for both tests. It also isn't my truck, so why would I know what tyres they have fitted.ffs.
FiF said:
jon- said:
300bhp/ton said:
Interesting video showing how 4wd brakes better than 2wd in the snow.
Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
All that video proves is his truck uses an older ABS system. Modern ABS systems will allow far more individual wheel control than relying on engine braking to help can.Obviously doesn’t apply to all types of 4wd drivetrain. The vid explains.
https://youtu.be/8bXdXRbc2Rc
However all of you either didn't bother watching the end of the vid, or failed to understand what was being said.
Normal road cars normally have a brake bias with 70+% to the front. Because on grippy tarmac when you brake you get a lot of weight transfer to the front. In slippery conditions you will not get the same weight transfer, as you won't generate enough grip on the front wheels. The aim of the heavy front bias is simple, under hard braking you want all the wheels to lock up at about the same time, the fronts slightly before the rears. Due to the weight transfer under braking, the fronts need to work a lot hard to lock the tyres up/induce ABS.
You can see how much the nose dives under braking, even on a car with stiff suspension:
But the heavy front brake bias means, when on a slippery surface that the front wheels will lock up/induce ABS much sooner and earlier on with a lot less braking effort. This is simply because you aren't getting the weight transfer on a slippery surface. When this happens it will reduce your rear braking effort, especially if equipped with ABS, where it will kick the ABS in and further reduce braking forces. The rear brakes are being highly under utilised, as you never get to brake hard enough to make them work to their full extent in these conditions. And the crux is, the rears probably won't be at the point of lock up or inducing the ABS under these conditions, meaning they could have helped brake and slow you more so.
On a slippery surface you want a more even front to rear brake bias (nearer to 50:50), so that all the wheels want to lock at the same time (50:50 bias would be bad on a dry tarmac roads, as the weight transfer under braking to the front on grippy surfaces would make the rears lock up before the fronts, causing you to spin). Hence why there is a front bias for the brakes as standard.
By locking the front and rear props together with a 4wd system (and centre diff lock if equipped). It effectively means that the rear wheels will have the same brake bias as the fronts, as some braking will be coming from the prop, which directly joins the front and rear axles together.
The end result on a slippery surface is a vehicle able to apply more braking force in total before lockup and less chance of kicking in the ABS. Hence why it will stop quicker (shorter distance). As demonstrated repeatedly in the video.
Cars with open centre differentials such as late model Jaguar X-Types will see no benefit at all, as the front and rear axles aren't directly joined or turning at the same speed. A Land Rover Defender with the centre diff lock open would also not benefit, but it would when the centre diff lock is engaged.
Limited slip centre diffs will see some benefit, but not as much as a directly linked setup.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Mmmm, 
1)
see thread title
Yes I know what the thread is, hence why I thought people looking at this thread might find it interesting as useful.1)
see thread titleAs it means:
-winter tyres are good in snow (we know this already)
-4wd is good in snow (we know this already)
-Certain types of 4wd system used in a certain why can make a vehicle when equipped with winter tyres (or not) perform even better in the snow
What exactly is your objection?
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
seems that your link is being panned sufficiently on your rambling thread, so we can leave it there.....
I hadn't previously seen that thread, I didn't get through the opening post before seeing an admission of click bait, aka in this case trolling, plus an assertion that has never been made in the context in which determinedly one handed typist 300bhp seems to twist things into.These rambling extremely lengthy tedious and condescending posts on very specific sometimes edge of case issues just ruin thread after thread after thread. Please stop.
DailyHack said:
Look good! Looks more purposeful on the smaller rims
Seriously? You reckon? Unsure why but I think they look odd, it could be that they were on the E46 M3 before I purchased the 125i.Honestly the ride is so confortable compared to the standard 18s.i would happily run 17s all year on this car
HannsG said:
Seriously? You reckon? Unsure why but I think they look odd, it could be that they were on the E46 M3 before I purchased the 125i.
Honestly the ride is so confortable compared to the standard 18s.i would happily run 17s all year on this car
Count me as another who think the smaller wheels look really good!Honestly the ride is so confortable compared to the standard 18s.i would happily run 17s all year on this car
I put the 16" winters back on my E91 on Monday, but it doesn't seem to ride any better on those than the 17" summers!
But I noticed 2 of them are more worn than the other 2. I put the better ones on the back as being RWD I was thinking it'll help to get moving, but now I'm wondering if I should have put the better ones on the front to help it stop!
I'm relatively new to using winters, just 4 years and it's hardly snowed at all in the South East so I would appreciate any thoughts from people who have more experience of them.
Anyway 16s and Bridgestone Blizzaks fitted:-
But I noticed 2 of them are more worn than the other 2. I put the better ones on the back as being RWD I was thinking it'll help to get moving, but now I'm wondering if I should have put the better ones on the front to help it stop!
I'm relatively new to using winters, just 4 years and it's hardly snowed at all in the South East so I would appreciate any thoughts from people who have more experience of them.
Anyway 16s and Bridgestone Blizzaks fitted:-
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