Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
Cold said:
As the season seems to now be getting on with things, I finally got round to fitting mine on one of the cars earlier this week. I'd forgotten just how softly it rides on winters. Based simply on ride comfort, it's a complete transformation for the better now. 
I'm not a fan of big wheels and low profile tyres but I put the Winter's on wife's Tiguan a week ago and there's so much sidewall they almost look silly! Driving it is like being on a bouncy castle.I fell for all this chat about summer tyres being as good or better at wet braking than full winter tyres and held off swapping over. Then I did this last weekend. So now I'm kicking myself as the winter setup would probably have dealt with standing water much better - that's a guess though clearly. So I guess my point is this, no mentions here of standing water and the performance of different types of tyres at dealing with this. I definitely remember feeling much better about going through standing water with a full winter setup. It's worth remembering that if your summer setup is a bit tired (we can't all have new tyres on our cars all the time) then I'd change over to winters asap. I waited. I won't do in future.
ATM said:
I fell for all this chat about summer tyres being as good or better at wet braking than full winter tyres and held off swapping over. Then I did this last weekend. So now I'm kicking myself as the winter setup would probably have dealt with standing water much better - that's a guess though clearly. So I guess my point is this, no mentions here of standing water and the performance of different types of tyres at dealing with this. I definitely remember feeling much better about going through standing water with a full winter setup. It's worth remembering that if your summer setup is a bit tired (we can't all have new tyres on our cars all the time) then I'd change over to winters asap. I waited. I won't do in future.
So are you talking about wet braking, or straight aquaplaning or curved aquaplaning?From reading tyre tests, summer tyres seem best at straight aquaplaning, they have more longitudinal grooves.
Pica-Pica said:
ATM said:
I fell for all this chat about summer tyres being as good or better at wet braking than full winter tyres and held off swapping over. Then I did this last weekend. So now I'm kicking myself as the winter setup would probably have dealt with standing water much better - that's a guess though clearly. So I guess my point is this, no mentions here of standing water and the performance of different types of tyres at dealing with this. I definitely remember feeling much better about going through standing water with a full winter setup. It's worth remembering that if your summer setup is a bit tired (we can't all have new tyres on our cars all the time) then I'd change over to winters asap. I waited. I won't do in future.
So are you talking about wet braking, or straight aquaplaning or curved aquaplaning?From reading tyre tests, summer tyres seem best at straight aquaplaning, they have more longitudinal grooves.
Sheepshanks said:
Cold said:
As the season seems to now be getting on with things, I finally got round to fitting mine on one of the cars earlier this week. I'd forgotten just how softly it rides on winters. Based simply on ride comfort, it's a complete transformation for the better now.
I'm not a fan of big wheels and low profile tyres but I put the Winter's on wife's Tiguan a week ago and there's so much sidewall they almost look silly! Driving it is like being on a bouncy castle.RicksAlfas said:
OUCH. Sorry to see that ATM.
It’s one thing that has always confused me. The tyre tests tend to show summer tyres as being better at wet braking/resisting aquaplaning but all seat of the pants experience tends to lean towards winters. Might be one for Jon to answer.
When tyre testing we're generally doing aquaplaning testing in warmer wet conditions, and literally just testing aquaplaning. On the road aquaplaning tends to be combined with general sIt’s one thing that has always confused me. The tyre tests tend to show summer tyres as being better at wet braking/resisting aquaplaning but all seat of the pants experience tends to lean towards winters. Might be one for Jon to answer.
t conditions / greasy roads / colder temperatures where winter tyres will have an advantage.It's also worth keeping in mind almost no one will be swapping between new summer tyres and new winter tyres like we do. Usually people are taking off midlife summers to put on fresh new winters. All testing we do is new vs new.
ATM said:
Again I'm surprised. I thought winters had more or deeper tread for a start. All the winters I've seen have more space for water to move around than a summer.
The wet braking tests are separate for aqua planing tests, so by nature of more rubber in contact with the road summer tyres out preform winters for wet braking - assuming the level of water has not exceeded the summer tyres ability to clear and caused aqua planing, which is what causes more big crashes than a 5% improvement in overall wet braking.Black_S3 said:
ATM said:
Again I'm surprised. I thought winters had more or deeper tread for a start. All the winters I've seen have more space for water to move around than a summer.
The wet braking tests are separate for aqua planing tests, so by nature of more rubber in contact with the road summer tyres out preform winters for wet braking - assuming the level of water has not exceeded the summer tyres ability to clear and caused aqua planing, which is what causes more big crashes than a 5% improvement in overall wet braking.From an article:
During development of the Primacy 3, Michelin teamed up with the accident research centre VUFO which specialises in accidentology - the research of accidents. VUFO researched over 20,000 separate accidents over the space of 10 years, and in doing so, provided Michelin with some interesting statistics and facts about accidents.
70% accidents happen on dry roads
60% accidents happen in urban areas at low speed
75% of accidents happen on straight roads
99% of accidents on wet roads happen when there's very little water depth
25% of accidents happen on bends, 50% of which happen when it's wet. While this is a relatively low percentage of the overall accidents, it is the group of accidents with the highest damage and most casualties
ATM said:
I fell for all this chat about summer tyres being as good or better at wet braking than full winter tyres and held off swapping over. Then I did this last weekend. So now I'm kicking myself as the winter setup would probably have dealt with standing water much better - that's a guess though clearly. So I guess my point is this, no mentions here of standing water and the performance of different types of tyres at dealing with this. I definitely remember feeling much better about going through standing water with a full winter setup. It's worth remembering that if your summer setup is a bit tired (we can't all have new tyres on our cars all the time) then I'd change over to winters asap. I waited. I won't do in future.
I guess a lot of people on here don't just run summer tyres, they run UHP summers. So we're probably worse off in the foulest of conditions than people on a 'regular' premium brand tyre.I have a set of winters and two sets of Yokohama summer - AD08R and V105s. The V105s are better overall in wet conditions, the AD08R are fine in the wet but twitchey as hell on standing water. Winter's only come out when we get to snow and slush as I have to drive a lot of uncleared roads around where I live.
Jon, I have the feeling when marketing departments do research it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Clearing standing water on motorways is so much better with a tyre that has a deep well designed tread that expels water.... an instance where weather condo might cause a decent driver to crash.
5-10% improvement in wet braking will likely not cause a competent driver to crash. Important factor is predictability.
In heavy rain, even in the summer I’d prefer to be on any of the winters I’ve experienced than and of the summers...I did a whole summer on winters when I moved house a few years back and if I were to be having just one set I would go winters year round.... climate is Scotland tho where the newer all seasons would probably do for a road car.
Clearing standing water on motorways is so much better with a tyre that has a deep well designed tread that expels water.... an instance where weather condo might cause a decent driver to crash.
5-10% improvement in wet braking will likely not cause a competent driver to crash. Important factor is predictability.
In heavy rain, even in the summer I’d prefer to be on any of the winters I’ve experienced than and of the summers...I did a whole summer on winters when I moved house a few years back and if I were to be having just one set I would go winters year round.... climate is Scotland tho where the newer all seasons would probably do for a road car.
jon- said:
Black_S3 said:
ATM said:
Again I'm surprised. I thought winters had more or deeper tread for a start. All the winters I've seen have more space for water to move around than a summer.
The wet braking tests are separate for aqua planing tests, so by nature of more rubber in contact with the road summer tyres out preform winters for wet braking - assuming the level of water has not exceeded the summer tyres ability to clear and caused aqua planing, which is what causes more big crashes than a 5% improvement in overall wet braking.From an article:
During development of the Primacy 3, Michelin teamed up with the accident research centre VUFO which specialises in accidentology - the research of accidents. VUFO researched over 20,000 separate accidents over the space of 10 years, and in doing so, provided Michelin with some interesting statistics and facts about accidents.
70% accidents happen on dry roads
60% accidents happen in urban areas at low speed
75% of accidents happen on straight roads
99% of accidents on wet roads happen when there's very little water depth
25% of accidents happen on bends, 50% of which happen when it's wet. While this is a relatively low percentage of the overall accidents, it is the group of accidents with the highest damage and most casualties
I must say, fair play to the chap in the Boxster for being man enough to admit the incident on a forum... that's to be applauded. A fairly stark reminder of why running performance focused tyres or indeed any tyre really at minimal tread depth on cold, wet roads is generally not the greatest of plans. I've probably said it before, but I'll say it again but I have SportMaxx RT2 on mine... even with 5mm on the front and 6mm on the rear, as the temperatures are now hovering around zero and the roads water logged... it's definitely very nervous as am I. The wife's car seems much happier and planted on it's similar depth Rainsports but as I type, it's -2degs and we have sleet falling and the local roads are white. Think that and the rather sobering image of the Boxster has prompted me to change sooner rather than later. Be safe out there!
Black_S3 said:
Jon, I have the feeling when marketing departments do research it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
VUFO aren't marketing, they're a university in Dresden who specialise in accident research!https://www.vufo.de/en/startseite/?no_cache=1
RicksAlfas said:
Gibonz said:
Folks,
Whats your thoughts on running 2 winters on the back of a RWD car?
Where I live gets the snow quite bad, but only a handful of times a year, so it's just to ensure the car wont get stranded
Cheers
What about stopping and steering?! Whats your thoughts on running 2 winters on the back of a RWD car?
Where I live gets the snow quite bad, but only a handful of times a year, so it's just to ensure the car wont get stranded
Cheers
ATM said:
RicksAlfas said:
Gibonz said:
Folks,
Whats your thoughts on running 2 winters on the back of a RWD car?
Where I live gets the snow quite bad, but only a handful of times a year, so it's just to ensure the car wont get stranded
Cheers
What about stopping and steering?! Whats your thoughts on running 2 winters on the back of a RWD car?
Where I live gets the snow quite bad, but only a handful of times a year, so it's just to ensure the car wont get stranded
Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5aMnmekA38
At least you'll see what you're about to hit instead of going in backwards.
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