Winter tyres vol 2

Author
Discussion

monthefish

20,443 posts

231 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
monthefish said:
Kawasicki said:
monthefish said:
Ron99 said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!
Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.
Definitely.

I think, to crash in summer on winter tyres, where tyre choice is a significant causal factor in the crash, you would have to be really going some.
Winter tyres in summer don't feel right, but I've never even been close to losing grip as a result. (not that I do this on a regular basis, but have experienced this situation)

On the other hand, in bad winter conditions it is easy to lose control at <30mph on summer tyres without pushing it particularly hard (where winter tyres would have prevented the loss of control).


Neither situation is optimum ('winters in summer', or 'summers in winter'), but 'winters in summer' is surely the lesser of two evils.
You seem to think that the only advantage of grip is to support “pushing it”. How about emergency stops?
Emergency stops.
I'd still rather be on winter tyres in summer, than summer tyres in winter.

Would you rather the opposite?
I hope you aren't ever behind me on the motorway and I have to perform an emergency stop!

Plus manufacturers don't recommend it. Not sure where you'd stand insurance wise if you were involved in a fatal accident. Worth thinking about....

https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tire-knowled...
I hope you aren't behind me at 20mph on a icy road on your summer tyres (never mind at motorway speeds).



anonymous-user

54 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
monthefish said:
I hope you aren't behind me at 20mph on a icy road on your summer tyres (never mind at motorway speeds).

If the weather was that bad I'd just work from home smile

monthefish

20,443 posts

231 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
stuff
Just so we're clear, which of the following (less than optimal) scenarios do you believe to be safer/is the lesser of two evils?
(lets use your motorway example, say @ 60mph)

(a) Winter tyres on normal UK summer conditions (say a dry day, 20degC) .
(b) Summer tyres in a typical mid winters day (wet/icy roads, temp around freezing)

(a) or (b)?



(and just to reiterate, and I'm not advocating either one as sensible - I, myself, have two sets of wheels for my car and change them according to the season)

Mr Tidy

22,367 posts

127 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
(a) for sure IME.

But then for the last 5 years I have swapped between summers and winters as appropriate, so I won't ever be on winters at 20 degrees or summers when it's freezing! laugh


Edited by Mr Tidy on Monday 25th November 01:02

Speed addicted

5,575 posts

227 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
monthefish said:
I hope you aren't behind me at 20mph on a icy road on your summer tyres (never mind at motorway speeds).

If the weather was that bad I'd just work from home smile
What if the weather turns bad when you’re at work?

RicksAlfas

13,403 posts

244 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Speed addicted said:
What if the weather turns bad when you’re at work?
That never happens in the binary world some people exist in.
hehe

Flibble

6,475 posts

181 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
monthefish said:
Just so we're clear, which of the following (less than optimal) scenarios do you believe to be safer/is the lesser of two evils?
(lets use your motorway example, say @ 60mph)

(a) Winter tyres on normal UK summer conditions (say a dry day, 20degC) .
(b) Summer tyres in a typical mid winters day (wet/icy roads, temp around freezing)

(a) or (b)?



(and just to reiterate, and I'm not advocating either one as sensible - I, myself, have two sets of wheels for my car and change them according to the season)
I've driven winter tyres in 20C dry conditions (a warm snap in spring). They were fine, comparable to a cheap summer tyre.

Summers in winter are not fun. Last winter I couldn't get across the crown of the road on summer tyres they had so little grip.

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
monthefish said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
stuff
Just so we're clear, which of the following (less than optimal) scenarios do you believe to be safer/is the lesser of two evils?
(lets use your motorway example, say @ 60mph)

(a) Winter tyres on normal UK summer conditions (say a dry day, 20degC) .
(b) Summer tyres in a typical mid winters day (wet/icy roads, temp around freezing)

(a) or (b)?



(and just to reiterate, and I'm not advocating either one as sensible - I, myself, have two sets of wheels for my car and change them according to the season)
Nice try, but I won't be taking the bait on this one. You'll have to find someone else to argue with smile

Ron99

1,985 posts

81 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
monthefish said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
stuff
Just so we're clear, which of the following (less than optimal) scenarios do you believe to be safer/is the lesser of two evils?
(lets use your motorway example, say @ 60mph)

(a) Winter tyres on normal UK summer conditions (say a dry day, 20degC) .
(b) Summer tyres in a typical mid winters day (wet/icy roads, temp around freezing)

(a) or (b)?



(and just to reiterate, and I'm not advocating either one as sensible - I, myself, have two sets of wheels for my car and change them according to the season)
I would choose 'a' because the (unpredictable) 'letting go' in cold, damp weather of summer tyres on corners or roundabouts is worse than the (predictable) roughly 20% longer stopping distance of winter tyres in mild weather.

I'll give you two less than optimal choices:
(a) a summer day being tailgated by a car with Accelera summer tyres
(b) a summer day being tailgated by a car with Continental winter tyres

And another:
(a) driving a car with Accelera summer tyres on a wet motorway in summer
(b) driving a car with Continental winter tyres on a wet motorway in summer


.

Kawasicki

13,091 posts

235 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
monthefish said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
stuff
Just so we're clear, which of the following (less than optimal) scenarios do you believe to be safer/is the lesser of two evils?
(lets use your motorway example, say @ 60mph)

(a) Winter tyres on normal UK summer conditions (say a dry day, 20degC) .
(b) Summer tyres in a typical mid winters day (wet/icy roads, temp around freezing)

(a) or (b)?



(and just to reiterate, and I'm not advocating either one as sensible - I, myself, have two sets of wheels for my car and change them according to the season)
Is a typical winters day in the UK wet? Regarding ice, aren’t most roads in the UK salted?

Anyway, I’d take summer tyres all year round in the UK....unless I really needed to be mobile the rare occasions that the roads become covered in snow, or if I lived in an area where there is a lot of snowfall.

Dry roads, interestingly, are more dangerous than wet roads.




Ron99

1,985 posts

81 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
Dry roads, interestingly, are more dangerous than wet roads.
A week or two ago, some honest bloke called John (not jon- the tyre tester of this forum) wrote an article about winter tyres stating:
'....you’re six times more likely to be involved in a collision in winter than in summer.....'

BaldOldMan

4,652 posts

64 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
Dry roads, interestingly, are more dangerous than wet roads.
Seems a bold and sweeping statement.....

Do you have a reference to support / clarify that ?

Kawasicki

13,091 posts

235 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all

BaldOldMan

4,652 posts

64 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
By that measure, snow & ice are the safest - because it doesn't divide by the amount of time the roads are in that condition - it just says more accidents happen on dry roads than in snow.....

It's a bit like saying most accidents involve sober drivers & concluding that it's therefore safer to be pissed.....

Ron99

1,985 posts

81 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
Quick summary:

1. In daylight about three quarters of accidents are reported to be on dry roads, the remainder on wet/icy roads.

2. In darkness it's only a little more than half of accidents on dry roads, almost half are on wet/icy roads.

3. About three quarters of accidents happen during daylight.

4. Whether day, night, wet or dry, about three quarters of accidents happen on built up roads.

Fact 4 above would imply three quarters of accidents occur at 30mph or less. But does stopping distance (or lack of) come into play in most of those 'city' / built-up-areas?

Oh - and a huge number of those 'urban' accidents involve cyclists or pedestrians.



Edited by Ron99 on Monday 25th November 19:31

BaldOldMan

4,652 posts

64 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Unless they are normalised by using something like the number of hours, number of vehicles on the road not involved in an accident etc they are useless & meaningless

More accidents involve cars than motorbikes.....

BaldOldMan

4,652 posts

64 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
[quote=Ron99

Oh - and a huge number of those 'urban' accidents involve cyclists or pedestrians.

[/quote]

Quite shocking how a cyclist or pedestrian is less at risk on a motorway smile

Ron99

1,985 posts

81 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
BaldOldMan said:
Quite shocking how a cyclist or pedestrian is less at risk on a motorway smile
Not quite the context I meant.
Most likely a lot of those cyclist accidents involved not having lights on the bike, jumping traffic lights, undertaking vehicles signalling left, or cars simply cutting them up on roundabouts and junctions.
I live near Cambridge and see this kind of thing all the time. In most cases the tyres on the vehicle would have made no difference because the driver was unaware of the cyclist or had decided to pull out in front of the cyclist.

Pica-Pica

13,808 posts

84 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Ron99 said:
Kawasicki said:
Quick summary:

1. In daylight about three quarters of accidents are reported to be on dry roads, the remainder on wet/icy roads.

2. In darkness it's only a little more than half of accidents on dry roads, almost half are on wet/icy roads.

3. About three quarters of accidents happen during daylight.

4. Whether day, night, wet or dry, about three quarters of accidents happen on built up roads.

Fact 4 above would imply three quarters of accidents occur at 30mph or less. But does stopping distance (or lack of) come into play in most of those 'city' / built-up-areas?

Oh - and a huge number of those 'urban' accidents involve cyclists or pedestrians.



Edited by Ron99 on Monday 25th November 19:31
Unfortunately, that is a list of questions, not answers. Does it allocate by ‘per mile travelled’ or by ‘per time travelled’, is the risk ‘per journey’?

Kawasicki

13,091 posts

235 months

Monday 25th November 2019
quotequote all
Around 43% of days are rainy in the UK, but only about 25% of reported accidents happen on wet roads.