Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
Pica-Pica said:
Unfortunately, that is a list of questions, not answers. Does it allocate by ‘per mile travelled’ or by ‘per time travelled’, is the risk ‘per journey’?
I broke the data down into facts as best I could, trying to present weather condition and accident figures in a simple, unbiased way, to save members trawling through pages of numbers.You and other forum members can come to your own conclusions regarding what the figures mean.
The figures don't change my view.
I have CrossClimates on one of my cars and P Zero on the other. I'm happy with that.
My wife has Vectors * on one of her cars and EcoContacts on the other. She's happy with the Vectors but not so much with the Eco Contacts which are skittish/unpredictable on cold, damp roads, requiring the car to be driven like a granny and can end up with an angry queue building up behind.
- Vectors are basically a winter tyre with an all-season label. For year-round A-to-B transport, we feel a lot happier driving on the Vectors than we do the EcoContacts.
You may find that there is less traffic on a wet road as people stay at home - you might find that there is more traffic as people chose not to walk or cycle...... but do you know ?
It's also likely that people drive more slowly in the wet, maybe ?
It's very hard to draw conclusions from raw data......
It's also likely that people drive more slowly in the wet, maybe ?
It's very hard to draw conclusions from raw data......
BaldOldMan said:
Kawasicki said:
Around 43% of days are rainy in the UK, but only about 25% of reported accidents happen on wet roads.]
On 'rainy days' - how long is the road wet for ?It won't be 100%.......
A.J.M said:
Got a set of Bridgestones Weather control A005 for my gf’s Polo.
The CrossClimates were unavailable in time so we got these.
Seem decent enough and if it keeps her safe then all is well.
Have them on mine since autumn last year and done about 10k with them. The CrossClimates were unavailable in time so we got these.
Seem decent enough and if it keeps her safe then all is well.
Haven’t used them on snow yet due to there not been any but this is their weakness according to various tests but time will tell when we get a dusting. On cold mornings they’ve worked well and they are excellent in the wet. They do inspire confidence in the rain.
Handling is not far off a normal summer tyre. I changed from Conti SC5 and you do notice a little more understeer and you can’t take quick corners quite as fast but on a shopping trolley car the noticeable difference is negligible. Noise levels are no different either.
All in all, I’m quite impressed and got them, like you, as CC were not made in my size. True test comes when it snows though...
Graveworm said:
I forgot to post this, thanks! Hopefully it answers some of the temperature grip changes we've been discussing. Obviously it isn't all encompassing, but better than nothing!
Kawasicki said:
On the other hand it’s possible to have many days of wet roads even though there is no rainfall.
That's what it's been like for the last week here. No rain since last Thursday but the roads have not been dry. Cars are filthy and windscreen washers are regularly on the go!Aaggraa1 said:
New tyre markings coming soon
https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news-article/n...
Good.https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news-article/n...
The current labelling which looks at only warm-weather wet braking is misleading and confusing people. Having 'A' rated tyres doesn't necessarily mean they are safe tyres.
Jon's test clearly shows that in cool-wet conditions the 'B' rated Michelin CrossClimate+ significantly outperformed the 'A' rated Continental Premium Contact 6.
I've been wondering, since the EU 'wet grip' label arrived a few years ago, whether 'summer' tyres are worse for cold weather grip than they used to be, due to manufacturers seeking that magical 'A' rating and sacrificing other abilities to achieve it.
Densetsu said:
Graveworm said:
Good technical review that. Thanks. However, many factors cannot be added. Sunload (although that is often available in altitude chambers). Wind (both chill and drying effect). Ground (subsoil) as opposed to just air temperatures.
Although Jon says his views on the changeover point has been changed, I am not sure it should be. When temperatures reach close to zero, fewer vehicles are on the road, so the warming, drying, and sweeping-up effect of higher volumes of traffic is lost compared to a few degrees higher. Snap cold weather is different to a prolonged period of cold weather, even at the same (air) temperature, because the ground surface and subsurface has had time to come down to a lower temperature. The difference in braking was 5 metres, is a car length, at low speed yes, a long distance, but at a full emergency brake from a higher speed, only represents the distance a prudent driver would leave in inclement weather (disregarding snowy surfaces). A better comparison for wet and dry braking would be varying g-stops (if that does not get auto-corrected).
If seasonal tyre changes are to be made, then, yes, summer and all-season would perhaps be best for most in the U.K., although Continental TS860 winters do make a pretty good effort into the warmer temperatures.
Interesting that Jon's conclusion is that a combo of summer/all seasons is the best bet for the UK.
I've been running this for a couple of years in Frankfurt on my car and reckon it's the best compromise there too.
On another note, my wife's Peugeot is on older winter tyres, I thought I would get another winter out of them at 4mm but they're absolutley bloody lethal in the wet so are being replaced this week.
Old winters at < 5mm tread depth are downright dangerous IME.
I've been running this for a couple of years in Frankfurt on my car and reckon it's the best compromise there too.
On another note, my wife's Peugeot is on older winter tyres, I thought I would get another winter out of them at 4mm but they're absolutley bloody lethal in the wet so are being replaced this week.
Old winters at < 5mm tread depth are downright dangerous IME.
valiant said:
A.J.M said:
Got a set of Bridgestones Weather control A005 for my gf’s Polo.
The CrossClimates were unavailable in time so we got these.
Seem decent enough and if it keeps her safe then all is well.
Have them on mine since autumn last year and done about 10k with them. The CrossClimates were unavailable in time so we got these.
Seem decent enough and if it keeps her safe then all is well.
Haven’t used them on snow yet due to there not been any but this is their weakness according to various tests but time will tell when we get a dusting. On cold mornings they’ve worked well and they are excellent in the wet. They do inspire confidence in the rain.
Handling is not far off a normal summer tyre. I changed from Conti SC5 and you do notice a little more understeer and you can’t take quick corners quite as fast but on a shopping trolley car the noticeable difference is negligible. Noise levels are no different either.
All in all, I’m quite impressed and got them, like you, as CC were not made in my size. True test comes when it snows though...
Good to see some real life performance reports on them.
I’m hoping they do work well in snow, some tests I’ve seen show them to be pretty good.
But then, we will get more cold mornings with frost and ice about over actual snow days so that was my main focus.
It’s only a 1.0 engine so no real ball of fire and she’s not a fast driver so losing that couple of % over a summer tyre isn’t a worry.
I thought I'd chime in here, as someone that's never used winters before, and this being my first 'cold season' with them. I've not been a sceptic per se, but I never had issues getting around on summers in the snow. No issue means I didn't crash into anything. Plenty of sideways action, making for a very PH way of driving, if a little slow and tiresome at times.
I decided to try, since a set of winters on 17 inch BMW wheels were £400, with a good 7+mm of tread all round. Goodyear Ultragrip Gen 1 tyres.
In addition to the better ride from smaller wheels, the man thing I've noticed is that when cold they feel so much more surefooted. The summers I've usually run in years gone by really do go hard. They would tramline quite badly, and feel harsher than usual, even once the dampers had warmed up and were doing their job properly.
In the recent damp, cold weeks we've had I've not felt the need to tiptoe around like I did on summers, and having seen Jon's video recently of cold, wet stopping distances, it makes sense why.
I might try a set of cross climates when these ones wear out, as the sipes make for quite a loud tyre. I can also understand why some people don't want to run winters, as it can be a bit of a faff sorting it all out.
I'm hoping for some snow this year to give them more of a test out.
I decided to try, since a set of winters on 17 inch BMW wheels were £400, with a good 7+mm of tread all round. Goodyear Ultragrip Gen 1 tyres.
In addition to the better ride from smaller wheels, the man thing I've noticed is that when cold they feel so much more surefooted. The summers I've usually run in years gone by really do go hard. They would tramline quite badly, and feel harsher than usual, even once the dampers had warmed up and were doing their job properly.
In the recent damp, cold weeks we've had I've not felt the need to tiptoe around like I did on summers, and having seen Jon's video recently of cold, wet stopping distances, it makes sense why.
I might try a set of cross climates when these ones wear out, as the sipes make for quite a loud tyre. I can also understand why some people don't want to run winters, as it can be a bit of a faff sorting it all out.
I'm hoping for some snow this year to give them more of a test out.
BaldOldMan said:
You may find that there is less traffic on a wet road as people stay at home - you might find that there is more traffic as people chose not to walk or cycle...... but do you know ?
It's also likely that people drive more slowly in the wet, maybe ?
It's very hard to draw conclusions from raw data......
any regular car commuter, or delivery driver or taxi driver will tell you that congestion (ie number of cars) is much worse when it's wet, a certain number of people don't walk/cycle to work/school when it's rainy, they go by car insteadIt's also likely that people drive more slowly in the wet, maybe ?
It's very hard to draw conclusions from raw data......
jon- said:
Graveworm said:
I forgot to post this, thanks! Hopefully it answers some of the temperature grip changes we've been discussing. Obviously it isn't all encompassing, but better than nothing!Lol'd at the reported brown trouser moment.
Aaggraa1 said:
New tyre markings coming soon
https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news-article/n...
That 'new' label just shows the existing 3PMS symbol, with no measurement/rating/figures. https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news-article/n...
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