Is it alignment or something else ????
Discussion
You really need to get someone who understands car alignment/geometry and the subsequent effects to drive the car with you & assess it properly as (as has been said before) your explanation makes precisely zero sense.
You keep talking about the car leaning & feeling the camber more on one side than another???????
You keep talking about the car leaning & feeling the camber more on one side than another???????
They won't have aligned the steering wheel by removing and refitting on a different spline. If they had then the steering angle sensor wouldn't be aligned and this would introduce an ESP fault.
It all sounds very odd TBH, a finance co would refer you back to a main dealer, not an alignment specialist. If the main dealer say's it's all within manufacturers tolerances then case closed.
It all sounds very odd TBH, a finance co would refer you back to a main dealer, not an alignment specialist. If the main dealer say's it's all within manufacturers tolerances then case closed.
fendertele said:
Maybe i'm not explaining it very well.. i have a single lane road for example that leads to my house that crowns.
So i take the same road leaving and returning.. and I've noticed i feel the camber much more on the front drivers side returning than i did on the front passengers side leaving... my drivers side leans more into the cambered road than the passengers side does when it passes it on the way out,.
Forgot to mention this is only at the front i feel no difference at the rear.
When you say you "feel the camber much more", what do you mean? I assume you're talking about the camber of the road, but I can't imagine what you mean when you say you feel it differently - especially when you say it only affects the front wheels. If you're talking about the lean of the vehicle, obviously this is determined by the front and rear wheels together and will exactly match the shape of the road unless there is something seriously wierd going on with your suspension. I wonder whether the issue may be related to the position/angle of your seat, or something like that. Seats are often not mounted exactly centrally and may not be exactly vertical and this might affect your perception of side forces.So i take the same road leaving and returning.. and I've noticed i feel the camber much more on the front drivers side returning than i did on the front passengers side leaving... my drivers side leans more into the cambered road than the passengers side does when it passes it on the way out,.
Forgot to mention this is only at the front i feel no difference at the rear.
Fastpedeller said:
A daft suggestion....... All the tyres are 'this side out' correctly?
lol now there's a question I couldn't tell you, i'd need to check as he put the new tyres on before the alignment then put back on the wheel covers and cable tied them.right if I parked my car up on a road that was crowning the back of the car would not lean into the camber of the road the way the front of the car does and it is more noticeable on the drivers side parked than if the passengers side was parked in the cambered road.
I have checked my tyres about 20 times now I even bought one of those little pressure gauges with the needle to make sure all tyres are sitting 2.5 bar as recommended on the cars sticker.
when i'm driving it feels like all the weight is on the front drivers side... like I weigh 40 stone or something and the car wants to ever so slightly steer to the right also but I believe it is due to this problem and not the steer ahead as from the printout the toe is bang on.
could it be that extra camber on the front passengers side possibly ?
PositronicRay said:
They won't have aligned the steering wheel by removing and refitting on a different spline. If they had then the steering angle sensor wouldn't be aligned and this would introduce an ESP fault.
It all sounds very odd TBH, a finance co would refer you back to a main dealer, not an alignment specialist. If the main dealer say's it's all within manufacturers tolerances then case closed.
I never bought the car from the main dealership I got it from a third party and they didn't want to swap it as they didn't deem the alignment issue as a fault and wanted the chance to rectify it... everytime they sent it to be aligned it came back still feeling out, I kept pushing and they just weren't playing ball the car is for business use so I had no option but to use it as I needed to start making money... but by doing so I knew any chance of a swap was out the window as the mileage was clocking up.It all sounds very odd TBH, a finance co would refer you back to a main dealer, not an alignment specialist. If the main dealer say's it's all within manufacturers tolerances then case closed.
I then contacted the finance company and they suggested I take it to a proper wheel alignment/geometry set up specialist and that's where they took over and booked it into him to do the shimming/camber kit etc... and he reported back to them that the car is now fixed so I no longer have the finance company helping because as far as they are concerned the car is now fixed and it's no longer an issue.
So despite this I then took it to have it double checked on the hunter system( the printouts above and from what a few folk have said the back end is off causing crabbing ?) So I don't know what to make of it ... he says its bang on... but the prinout says it's still out..
This is the first car I've ever bought so i'm not that clued up on cars except driving them.
I've to take the car back to him in a 1000 miles to makes sure it's still okay and nothing has moved etc... so hopefully then I can bring it up with him... but I was just hoping I could have an idea what to say rather than explain the leaning thing that as you can all agree isn't making much sense.
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 17:00
fendertele said:
right if I parked my car up on a road that was crowning the back of the car would not lean into the camber of the road the way the front of the car does and it is more noticeable on the drivers side parked than if the passengers side was parked in the cambered road.
This is starting to sound like something that could be pinned down to actual symptoms.If the car is parked on a surface which is not level from side to side, the car should remain more or less parallel with the road so the body will lean to one side. Is this what you're referring to?
When you say the back doesn't lean the way the front does, do you mean that the bodywork is twisted? If not, what are you saying?
fendertele said:
Fastpedeller said:
A daft suggestion....... All the tyres are 'this side out' correctly?
lol now there's a question I couldn't tell you, i'd need to check as he put the new tyres on before the alignment then put back on the wheel covers and cable tied them.right if I parked my car up on a road that was crowning the back of the car would not lean into the camber of the road the way the front of the car does and it is more noticeable on the drivers side parked than if the passengers side was parked in the cambered road.
I have checked my tyres about 20 times now I even bought one of those little pressure gauges with the needle to make sure all tyres are sitting 2.5 bar as recommended on the cars sticker.
when i'm driving it feels like all the weight is on the front drivers side... like I weigh 40 stone or something and the car wants to ever so slightly steer to the right also but I believe it is due to this problem and not the steer ahead as from the printout the toe is bang on.
could it be that extra camber on the front passengers side possibly ?
Fastpedeller said:
I'm getting lost with this...... What do you mean by "he put the new tyres on before the alignment". It's a new car? If he took the wheels off, he would have put them back on, but he wouldn't have removed the tyres. I'm just wondering (it's a very long shot) if one (or more) were incorrectly fitted when it was manufactured.
I had done nearly 8000 miles before the work got done and the 4 tyres that were on it were wearing unevenly, so I had 4 new tyres put on the same day I got all the work done.GreenV8S said:
This is starting to sound like something that could be pinned down to actual symptoms.
If the car is parked on a surface which is not level from side to side, the car should remain more or less parallel with the road so the body will lean to one side. Is this what you're referring to?
When you say the back doesn't lean the way the front does, do you mean that the bodywork is twisted? If not, what are you saying?
Basically... if I reverse into the uneven surface so that passengers side was onside that drains I wouldn't feel the camber at all.... but if I drove straight into the parking space so the drivers side was on the side that drains I would feel the car leaning/dipping much more than I should at the front end... almost like the front right tyre was flatter than the other 3 tires.If the car is parked on a surface which is not level from side to side, the car should remain more or less parallel with the road so the body will lean to one side. Is this what you're referring to?
When you say the back doesn't lean the way the front does, do you mean that the bodywork is twisted? If not, what are you saying?
Ignore the crap paint shop skills lol!
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 17:48
Edited by fendertele on Thursday 11th January 17:50
And Btw I have got out and looked at the car when it's parked up and there is no noticeable difference in ride height when the passengers side is parked at the drain side or the drivers side is parked at the drain side... it is purely how the car feels with both tryes coming into contact with the road... that's why i'm leaning ( no pun intended) with it being the difference in camber with the front wheels.
E-bmw said:
This makes me wonder if you understand what camber is?
Negatives where the to of the tyre leans in and the bottom leans out /- \ positive is other way round \-/ ?If both sides have negative but one side slightly more negative than the other. / - | this is what hoping I was experiencing.
When you say it 'over exaggerates' the camber, what is it you're feeling? I mean, is it feedback you're getting through the steering wheel, or through the seat, or what? Based on your drawings below I'm wondering whether the issue is that the seat is not level in the car or you are sitting off center in the seat and not actually upright when the car is level.
Managed to relieve my issue a little with a very unorthodox method.
Whenever I've been driving because of how the car feels I've had this urge when driving straight to throw/yank the steering wheel hard to the right and then quickly recenter it
When I was on a quiet bit of road I did it a couple of times and when I straightened back up it had improved.
Cheers for all the advice n input.
Whenever I've been driving because of how the car feels I've had this urge when driving straight to throw/yank the steering wheel hard to the right and then quickly recenter it
When I was on a quiet bit of road I did it a couple of times and when I straightened back up it had improved.
Cheers for all the advice n input.
GreenV8S said:
When you say it 'over exaggerates' the camber, what is it you're feeling? I mean, is it feedback you're getting through the steering wheel, or through the seat, or what? Based on your drawings below I'm wondering whether the issue is that the seat is not level in the car or you are sitting off center in the seat and not actually upright when the car is level.
Through the seat!!!! I thought I was going crazy with this feeling... With suspension alignment, without any initial readings, how do you know anything's wrong. Then with no after, how do you know anything's been done. I wouldn't be happy spending £1k like that. In fact with those readings you have now, I'd be taking it back.
That right rear toe changing like that isn't right either. Maybe someting loose, or worn?
I spent over £1k getting the supension alignment sorted on my old RAV4, it came back spot on, to my own specific stttings and tolerances.
That right rear toe changing like that isn't right either. Maybe someting loose, or worn?
I spent over £1k getting the supension alignment sorted on my old RAV4, it came back spot on, to my own specific stttings and tolerances.
SlimJim16v said:
With suspension alignment, without any initial readings, how do you know anything's wrong. Then with no after, how do you know anything's been done. I wouldn't be happy spending £1k like that. In fact with those readings you have now, I'd be taking it back.
That right rear toe changing like that isn't right either. Maybe someting loose, or worn?
I spent over £1k getting the supension alignment sorted on my old RAV4, it came back spot on, to my own specific stttings and tolerances.
I just read so many good reviews that he did rally cars etc... And everyone saying they wouldn't take their car anywhere else that I thought it was a sure thing going to him.That right rear toe changing like that isn't right either. Maybe someting loose, or worn?
I spent over £1k getting the supension alignment sorted on my old RAV4, it came back spot on, to my own specific stttings and tolerances.
When he was adamant that it was perfectly aligned that's when I took it for the hunter read out to verify it was as good as he said.
The rear toe moving worries me also as I'm certain the whole shim work he did at the rear was to shift the toe and or camber as it was out and non adjustable.
I am now driving my car and it feels a lot better but I am obviously wondering what has shifted with me doing this manoeuvre ?
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