Is it alignment or something else ????
Discussion
fendertele said:
E-bmw said:
This makes me wonder if you understand what camber is?
Negatives where the to of the tyre leans in and the bottom leans out /- \ positive is other way round \-/ ?If both sides have negative but one side slightly more negative than the other. / - | this is what hoping I was experiencing.
E-bmw said:
Correct, and then you keep saying you "feel the camber on the car" How do you "feel camber" when driving a car?
This may not be the actual problem it's just how i'd describe it... it feels like a flat tire but the tires are all the correct pressure.. so when I say I feel the camber I mean whatever side it has shifted too is the side I feel the road crowning more than the other side..For example last night at the start of my shift I felt whatever the issue is i on the drivers right side... and even though the car drives straight.. because of what i'm feeling I was constantly edging the steering wheel ever so slightly to the left... and by the end of my shift at some point it had shifted to the left side and I felt myself now ever so slightly edging the steering wheel to the right.
obviously I don't know anything about how the front end is connected but it feels like something moving/slipping between the front two wheels that is causing this sensation when I'm driving... I hit nothing of note last night and was very careful in my driving... the only thing I can think that would cause this shift is sharp cornering.
jsf said:
get someone to check the steering rack isn't loose in its mountings.
could this be the problem ? what would cause the steering rack to come loose on such a new car ? i'm trying to think of any other symptoms that could be helpful..
there is one but I can't say for sure if it's new or has always been there and i'm just noticing.
But when i'm driving at speeds over 30 possibly 40... there is a vibrating/knocking coming through the pedals and also if I sit my braking foot on the drivers floor I can feel it through the floor panel. As far as noise I don't think there is much or at least not enough to hear it over the cars engine.
So it's not so much noisy but the feeling of something slightly knocking about coming through the floor and pedals.
and there is zero vibration through the steering wheel, it is all contained to the floor/pedals area.
I hadn't brought this up before as it didn't really bother me and thought it was the bumps on the road etc vibrating through but then I noticed I felt it on a smooth motorway at speed but again it wasn't severe to effect my driving.
Edited by fendertele on Friday 12th January 17:53
Edited by fendertele on Friday 12th January 18:03
fendertele said:
jsf said:
get someone to check the steering rack isn't loose in its mountings.
could this be the problem ? what would cause the steering rack to come loose on such a new car ? i'm trying to think of any other symptoms that could be helpful..
there is one but I can't say for sure if it's new or has always been there and i'm just noticing.
But when i'm driving at speeds over 30 possibly 40... there is a vibrating/knocking coming through the pedals and also if I sit my braking foot on the drivers floor I can feel it through the floor panel. As far as noise I don't think there is much or at least not enough to hear it over the cars engine.
So it's not so much noisy but the feeling of something slightly knocking about coming through the floor and pedals.
and there is zero vibration through the steering wheel, it is all contained to the floor/pedals area.
I hadn't brought this up before as it didn't really bother me and I don't think it's severe.
A way to test it is find somewhere you can load the car up through a long fast right hand corner followed by a straight, then load it up through a long fast left corner, then a straight. If the steering wheel position in straight ahead moves after each turn, the rack is moving in its mounts.
Its also worth checking you don't have a broken driveshaft joint or differential unit. Does the car have an LSD?
If you jack one driven wheel off the ground, spin the wheel by hand and check the driveshaft is turning with the wheel and there is no knocking coming from the joints, check both inside and outside driveshaft joints turn and you get no noises. Do the same on the other side.
You shouldn't be feeling any vibration through the floor.
Check all 4 tyres are the same size, make and type, I've seen a car with brand new tyres that had odd sizes fitted, it does happen.
jsf said:
It's not unheard of that the steering rack moves in its mountings. You often have it with older cars where the bushes get tired, but I've seen it with newer cars that only have C clamps rather than bolt through bush mountings and the clamps have come loose or the bushes are faulty and undersize.
A way to test it is find somewhere you can load the car up through a long fast right hand corner followed by a straight, then load it up through a long fast left corner, then a straight. If the steering wheel position in straight ahead moves after each turn, the rack is moving in its mounts.
Its also worth checking you don't have a broken driveshaft joint or differential unit. Does the car have an LSD?
If you jack one driven wheel off the ground, spin the wheel by hand and check the driveshaft is turning with the wheel and there is no knocking coming from the joints, check both inside and outside driveshaft joints turn and you get no noises. Do the same on the other side.
You shouldn't be feeling any vibration through the floor.
Check all 4 tyres are the same size, make and type, I've seen a car with brand new tyres that had odd sizes fitted, it does happen.
Well if you read back a few posts I mentioned the urge of wanting ... while cornering to yank the steering wheel a little bit more than the turn needs then straighten it back up fast... it seemed to fix the problem ever so slightly... and when the problem shifts to the other side I want to do the same thing while cornering the other way...A way to test it is find somewhere you can load the car up through a long fast right hand corner followed by a straight, then load it up through a long fast left corner, then a straight. If the steering wheel position in straight ahead moves after each turn, the rack is moving in its mounts.
Its also worth checking you don't have a broken driveshaft joint or differential unit. Does the car have an LSD?
If you jack one driven wheel off the ground, spin the wheel by hand and check the driveshaft is turning with the wheel and there is no knocking coming from the joints, check both inside and outside driveshaft joints turn and you get no noises. Do the same on the other side.
You shouldn't be feeling any vibration through the floor.
Check all 4 tyres are the same size, make and type, I've seen a car with brand new tyres that had odd sizes fitted, it does happen.
So what you are mentioning about the cornering and straightening up is what I naturally have the urge to do while driving because of how the car feels.
for example when I feel the problem on the drivers side driving straight I want to through the car sharply to the left and quickly straighten back up to relieve the issue....
and at times when doing a full locked u turn it can also shift it when I straighten back up.
As far as the other stuff I really wish I could tell you more but i'm a total noob when it comes to anything outside of regular servicing... all four tyres are however the same make and size.
Edited by fendertele on Friday 12th January 18:32
jsf said:
do what i suggest then come back.
Okay i'm about to do a long shift tonight with the car with plenty of chances on the motorway to test it out.When you say load up you I'm guessing you mean accelerate into the corner at speed ?
I may not be able to do this for you at a great speed... as with this issue whatever side i'm feeling the problem on I tend to slow when cornering one way as it feels unstable.
when I feel it on the left side.... taking long right corners feel unsafe at speed, but long left corners feel great
when I feel it on the right side.... taking long left corners feel unsafe at speed but long right corners feel great.
but I will give it a go and look to see if the steering wheel changes place when I straighten up.
one that doesn't send a car out with badly aligned suspension.Hey just to let you all know I've booked it back in with guy that did the work for next wed so will be able to see how things are from then on.
Last night I found some relief by doing two things... when I was taking sharp round abouts, I would fling the car round it hard and straighten back up sharply and that seems to shift it back to feeling normal...
and later in the night I had to make a 6 point turn in a tight cal-de-sac with a lot of turning the wheel while not moving... and by the time I had finished the manouvere and got out of the tight spot it had again made it feel even better to drive.
So I will mention to him that something is shifting.. and can change by doing the above mentioned manoeuvres... and hopefully he can figure it out and doesn't look at me like i'm crazy lol
Last night I found some relief by doing two things... when I was taking sharp round abouts, I would fling the car round it hard and straighten back up sharply and that seems to shift it back to feeling normal...
and later in the night I had to make a 6 point turn in a tight cal-de-sac with a lot of turning the wheel while not moving... and by the time I had finished the manouvere and got out of the tight spot it had again made it feel even better to drive.
So I will mention to him that something is shifting.. and can change by doing the above mentioned manoeuvres... and hopefully he can figure it out and doesn't look at me like i'm crazy lol
Just a little update decided to get the rear axle replaced as the shim job moved out of spec.. took it to seat dealership and they needed to replace the rear axle and wheel bearings.
They don't have an alignment machine so when I left them I took it to see how it was looking.
The front was out but that's no biggy got it put back in spec... However the rear toe despite being in spec is exactly the same as before the rear axle being replaced... Too much toe to the right.
So now when I drive it it feels pretty much same as before replacing the rear axle... If the SW is centred the car drives to the right and there is also a slight pull to the left??
Tried rotating tyres but made no difference... Anything stand out which could cause a slight pull to the left?
They don't have an alignment machine so when I left them I took it to see how it was looking.
The front was out but that's no biggy got it put back in spec... However the rear toe despite being in spec is exactly the same as before the rear axle being replaced... Too much toe to the right.
So now when I drive it it feels pretty much same as before replacing the rear axle... If the SW is centred the car drives to the right and there is also a slight pull to the left??
Tried rotating tyres but made no difference... Anything stand out which could cause a slight pull to the left?
I can't believe they replaced the rear axle and bearings! There was nothing wrong with the geometry to suggest that something was awry.
Have we had a mechanic in the driver's seat yet?
Has the description of the problem changed again? If it's a 'pull' its more likely to be brakes or tyre related.
Have we had a mechanic in the driver's seat yet?
Has the description of the problem changed again? If it's a 'pull' its more likely to be brakes or tyre related.
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