Discussion
Can it be done? Yes of course it can.
Are there companies that can do it? Loads of them it seems.
But the question is, how wide can I band them out and how much/little negative offset can I run?
I want to band them out from 7" for certain to 9" probably, they are ET+33 currently and I already know they'll rub like buggery on the steering as my current alloys are ET00.
My measurements so far indicate that trimming 40mm off the back and adding 100mm on the front would give me a rim width of 9" 3/8" and offset of ET-49.
What do we think?
Are there companies that can do it? Loads of them it seems.
But the question is, how wide can I band them out and how much/little negative offset can I run?
I want to band them out from 7" for certain to 9" probably, they are ET+33 currently and I already know they'll rub like buggery on the steering as my current alloys are ET00.
My measurements so far indicate that trimming 40mm off the back and adding 100mm on the front would give me a rim width of 9" 3/8" and offset of ET-49.
What do we think?
GreenV8S said:
I don't understand the question. You seem to have a plan and know that it's possible. Are you expecting somebody to tell you whether you're going to have suspension/bodywork clearance issues?
Is a 100mm banding too much on a rim?I worked out the clearance issues but have never seen more than 50mm bands and whilst I wait patiently for the machinist to get back in touch I was wondering if others had gone that wide or maybe wider?
The banded wheels I have seen have had the outer rim cut away and a band added in to widen the wheel outwards, the link here says they can add in up to 12 inches
http://www.usherengineering.co.uk/banded%20wheels....
You also want to remove 40mm from the rear of the rim and I am doubtful this is possible as the wheel design may not have a sufficiently sized and shaped section to remove.
The wheels may not rub because the actual position of the inner rim depends not only on the ET but also on rim width. ET +33 compared to ET 0. Exams the mounting face will be 33 mm further in towards the suspension but if the wheel is 66mm narrower then the actual position of the in inner rim would be the same (for example a 5 inch steel wheel ET+33 will have the inner rim in the same place as a 7.5 inch alloy wheel with ET0]
http://www.usherengineering.co.uk/banded%20wheels....
You also want to remove 40mm from the rear of the rim and I am doubtful this is possible as the wheel design may not have a sufficiently sized and shaped section to remove.
The wheels may not rub because the actual position of the inner rim depends not only on the ET but also on rim width. ET +33 compared to ET 0. Exams the mounting face will be 33 mm further in towards the suspension but if the wheel is 66mm narrower then the actual position of the in inner rim would be the same (for example a 5 inch steel wheel ET+33 will have the inner rim in the same place as a 7.5 inch alloy wheel with ET0]
Edited by Scrump on Monday 7th January 23:27
Scrump said:
How do you expect anyone on here to tell you how wide you can band them out and what offset you can run?
You don’t even say what vehicle it is for.
7 inch to 9 inch, an extra 2 inches, is not unusual but whether it would fit on your vehicle you already seem to know the answer.
Sorry, I don't tend to use forums that much and I'm not blessed with the knowledge in my own hands and none of my mates know anything about banding, they just buy what they want ready made and while it's nice to click and your stuff is delivered but then you just end up with the same as everyone else as they can click the same buttons too.You don’t even say what vehicle it is for.
7 inch to 9 inch, an extra 2 inches, is not unusual but whether it would fit on your vehicle you already seem to know the answer.
It's for a Range Rover Classic.
Currently on Disco alloys with ET00 running 235/85 r16
New rims will be RRC Rostyles which I've measured out as ET+33 and I am planning 285/75 r16 as new tyre size.
I don't want to run spacers hence wanting to trim 40mm out the back and having that seam welded back on and then the front of the rim banded out by 100mm to make it easy for machine shop.
But my thoughts are that I'm asking too much from the banding and that I'll load up too much pressure on the rims.
Easy when you know the answers I suppose, but as I don't I thought I would ask here, sorry that my initial post had overlooked the basic info.
The wheels may not rub because the actual position of the inner rim depends not only on the ET but also on rim width. ET +33 compared to ET 00 means the mounting face will be 33 mm further in towards the suspension but if the wheel is 66mm narrower then the actual position of the in inner rim would be the same (for example a 5 inch steel wheel ET+33 will have the inner rim in the same place as a 7.5 inch alloy wheel with ET0]
What rim width are the alloys and what rim width are the steels?
What rim width are the alloys and what rim width are the steels?
Have a look here:
https://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calcu...
For example a 5 inch rim with ET+33 and a 7.5 inch rim with ET0 show a 1mm difference in the position of the inner face.
You need to see what width wheel you have.
If you have a RRC and the steels are for a RRC then they are likely to fit and not rub.
https://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calcu...
For example a 5 inch rim with ET+33 and a 7.5 inch rim with ET0 show a 1mm difference in the position of the inner face.
You need to see what width wheel you have.
If you have a RRC and the steels are for a RRC then they are likely to fit and not rub.
Scrump said:
The banded wheels I have seen have had the outer rim cut away and a band added in to widen the wheel outwards, the link here says they can add in up to 12 inches
http://www.usherengineering.co.uk/banded%20wheels....
You also want to remove 40mm from the rear of the rim and I am doubtful this is possible as the wheel design may not have a sufficiently sized and shaped section to remove.
rims internally.http://www.usherengineering.co.uk/banded%20wheels....
You also want to remove 40mm from the rear of the rim and I am doubtful this is possible as the wheel design may not have a sufficiently sized and shaped section to remove.
This thread may help.
It is the long running RRC thread and the link be,low should take you to the posts discussing banded wheels on a RRC.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is the long running RRC thread and the link be,low should take you to the posts discussing banded wheels on a RRC.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Scrump said:
This thread may help.
It is the long running RRC thread and the link be,low should take you to the posts discussing banded wheels on a RRC.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
That's great, but why couldn't I find it in the searches I've done?It is the long running RRC thread and the link be,low should take you to the posts discussing banded wheels on a RRC.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
doubble99 said:
It's for a Range Rover Classic.
Currently on Disco alloys with ET00 running 235/85 r16
New rims will be RRC Rostyles which I've measured out as ET+33 and I am planning 285/75 r16 as new tyre size.
Are you planning to run road tyres? This is likely to give you a noticeable increase in peak lateral grip which could be problematic on such a tall car unless you have other plans to reduce the risk of rolling it.Currently on Disco alloys with ET00 running 235/85 r16
New rims will be RRC Rostyles which I've measured out as ET+33 and I am planning 285/75 r16 as new tyre size.
One thing you can do is flip the wheel centre to make the inside face the outer face, which can significantly reduce offset. I recently did some wheels for a (non road legal) project and pulled them back from about ET60 to more like ET15.
But with what you're after, I would either buy complete wheels in the dimensions you want (are Matt Lee wheels still a thing?), or if you really want the Rostlye look, having those centres welded into appropriate rims.
To both widen by banding and change offset on a set of wheels strikes me as something that would involve a lot of work, and the cost could add up quite quickly?
I also agree with what people are saying about thinking about what you want - if a wheel with ET33 offset causes rubbing, then adding 50mm total width while changing to ET00 is only really moving the rear face outwards by 8mm from where it was, so it could still be a bit close, you could well need to go past zero offset to get clearance, and then there's the geometry effects to consider on things like scrub radius when taking into account what diameter tyres you'll be running.
But with what you're after, I would either buy complete wheels in the dimensions you want (are Matt Lee wheels still a thing?), or if you really want the Rostlye look, having those centres welded into appropriate rims.
To both widen by banding and change offset on a set of wheels strikes me as something that would involve a lot of work, and the cost could add up quite quickly?
I also agree with what people are saying about thinking about what you want - if a wheel with ET33 offset causes rubbing, then adding 50mm total width while changing to ET00 is only really moving the rear face outwards by 8mm from where it was, so it could still be a bit close, you could well need to go past zero offset to get clearance, and then there's the geometry effects to consider on things like scrub radius when taking into account what diameter tyres you'll be running.
InitialDave said:
One thing you can do is flip the wheel centre to make the inside face the outer face, which can significantly reduce offset. I recently did some wheels for a (non road legal) project and pulled them back from about ET60 to more like ET15.
But with what you're after, I would either buy complete wheels in the dimensions you want (are Matt Lee wheels still a thing?), or if you really want the Rostlye look, having those centres welded into appropriate rims.
To both widen by banding and change offset on a set of wheels strikes me as something that would involve a lot of work, and the cost could add up quite quickly?
I also agree with what people are saying about thinking about what you want - if a wheel with ET33 offset causes rubbing, then adding 50mm total width while changing to ET00 is only really moving the rear face outwards by 8mm from where it was, so it could still be a bit close, you could well need to go past zero offset to get clearance, and then there's the geometry effects to consider on things like scrub radius when taking into account what diameter tyres you'll be running.
I want a particular look that is familiar but odd all at the same time.But with what you're after, I would either buy complete wheels in the dimensions you want (are Matt Lee wheels still a thing?), or if you really want the Rostlye look, having those centres welded into appropriate rims.
To both widen by banding and change offset on a set of wheels strikes me as something that would involve a lot of work, and the cost could add up quite quickly?
I also agree with what people are saying about thinking about what you want - if a wheel with ET33 offset causes rubbing, then adding 50mm total width while changing to ET00 is only really moving the rear face outwards by 8mm from where it was, so it could still be a bit close, you could well need to go past zero offset to get clearance, and then there's the geometry effects to consider on things like scrub radius when taking into account what diameter tyres you'll be running.
By my calculations i will be at a negative offset of 49mm on a 9" width, which would be less than negative 33 as I've seen run on a fairly common 38mm spacer.
9" rim to suit an 11½” tyre, i think the 7" Rostyles are too narrow for the new wider tyres.
doubble99 said:
I want a particular look that is familiar but odd all at the same time.
By my calculations i will be at a negative offset of 49mm on a 9" width, which would be less than negative 33 as I've seen run on a fairly common 38mm spacer.
Careful, I've noticed there seems to be this confusion of negative and positive offset when things are discussed online. I think it comes from the terminology being used differently in different countries such as the US.By my calculations i will be at a negative offset of 49mm on a 9" width, which would be less than negative 33 as I've seen run on a fairly common 38mm spacer.
ET33 is, as far as I'm concerned, a negative offset. The wheel is pushed back into the arch 33mm from its centreline, relative to the hub face.
If that's the standard wheel, and you put all the additional 50mm rim width on the outer side of the wheel, the centreline of the wheel is now 25mm further out, so you'd reduce the amount of negative offset by that much and end up with ET08.
But the "backspacing" of the wheel (distance from the mounting face to the inner edge of the rim) is unchanged, so if it's hitting stuff now, it'd hit stuff then, too.
This is better for clearance than widening the rim and preserving offset by putting the increased width equally either side, but it sounds like you need to go even further than this?
Edit: re-read everything, and yes, what you're saying (add at the front while removing at the back) should give positive offset and increase clearance. That's a hell of a lot of positive offset though.
If I had to do it, I'd probably flip the rim then band it.
Only vaguely relevant, but this is the effect of the flipping I mentioned doing in my earlier post:
Edited by InitialDave on Tuesday 8th January 09:04
Zulu 10 said:
I don’t normally do the prophet of doom ‘think of the children’ type hysteria, but have you (the OP I mean) considered the additional stresses which your proposed modifications will impart on the suspension, ball joints, wheel studs etc?
As a sobering thought might I suggest that you look closely at the Disco shown in the picture in this article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-4333163...
It is still unknown at this time exactly what the failure was and the exact cause, sobering it is, but this is the type of failure i am trying to avoid by reaching out to those with knowledge and experience of what i am trying to achieve, it could also be a good reference thread for the future?As a sobering thought might I suggest that you look closely at the Disco shown in the picture in this article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-4333163...
InitialDave said:
Careful, I've noticed there seems to be this confusion of negative and positive offset when things are discussed online. I think it comes from the terminology being used differently in different countries such as the US.
ET33 is, as far as I'm concerned, a negative offset. The wheel is pushed back into the arch 33mm from its centreline, relative to the hub face.
If that's the standard wheel, and you put all the additional 50mm rim width on the outer side of the wheel, the centreline of the wheel is now 25mm further out, so you'd reduce the amount of negative offset by that much and end up with ET08.
But the "backspacing" of the wheel (distance from the mounting face to the inner edge of the rim) is unchanged, so if it's hitting stuff now, it'd hit stuff then, too.
This is better for clearance than widening the rim and preserving offset by putting the increased width equally either side, but it sounds like you need to go even further than this?
Edit: re-read everything, and yes, what you're saying (add at the front while removing at the back) should give positive offset and increase clearance. That's a hell of a lot of positive offset though.
If I had to do it, I'd probably flip the rim then band it.
Only vaguely relevant, but this is the effect of the flipping I mentioned doing in my earlier post:
Wow, thanks for the pictures, yes i see exactly what you mean, I have a scheduled call to the machine shop this afternoon so we can discuss and explore this option further then.ET33 is, as far as I'm concerned, a negative offset. The wheel is pushed back into the arch 33mm from its centreline, relative to the hub face.
If that's the standard wheel, and you put all the additional 50mm rim width on the outer side of the wheel, the centreline of the wheel is now 25mm further out, so you'd reduce the amount of negative offset by that much and end up with ET08.
But the "backspacing" of the wheel (distance from the mounting face to the inner edge of the rim) is unchanged, so if it's hitting stuff now, it'd hit stuff then, too.
This is better for clearance than widening the rim and preserving offset by putting the increased width equally either side, but it sounds like you need to go even further than this?
Edit: re-read everything, and yes, what you're saying (add at the front while removing at the back) should give positive offset and increase clearance. That's a hell of a lot of positive offset though.
If I had to do it, I'd probably flip the rim then band it.
Only vaguely relevant, but this is the effect of the flipping I mentioned doing in my earlier post:
Edited by InitialDave on Tuesday 8th January 09:04
Thanks again.
No problem. They may advise against it on the basis of the retention bead on the rim should be on the outside - I didn't have to worry about such things, as I said, mine are for (very low speed) off road use and I'm also running tubes.
But depending how they do the job, maybe they could add a retaining bead.
But depending how they do the job, maybe they could add a retaining bead.
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