Michelin Cross Climate+ or Goodyear Vector 4Seasons
Discussion
jm8403 said:
I didn't know that was their motto: 'largely aimed at snow' not cold, I only remember the opposite which is: 'improved grip/braking at temps <7c'. I run the CC on our run around and find them brilliant too.
In my experience, it's a lot closer to 0 before I've started noticing a benefit with winter tyres in non-wintery conditions. I'm not buying that an equivalent winter will out perform a high performance summer tyre in the dry/damp at 7 degrees.
Patrick Bateman said:
jm8403 said:
I didn't know that was their motto: 'largely aimed at snow' not cold, I only remember the opposite which is: 'improved grip/braking at temps <7c'. I run the CC on our run around and find them brilliant too.
In my experience, it's a lot closer to 0 before I've started noticing a benefit with winter tyres in non-wintery conditions. I'm not buying that an equivalent winter will out perform a high performance summer tyre in the dry/damp at 7 degrees.
Patrick Bateman said:
jm8403 said:
I didn't know that was their motto: 'largely aimed at snow' not cold, I only remember the opposite which is: 'improved grip/braking at temps <7c'. I run the CC on our run around and find them brilliant too.
In my experience, it's a lot closer to 0 before I've started noticing a benefit with winter tyres in non-wintery conditions. I'm not buying that an equivalent winter will out perform a high performance summer tyre in the dry/damp at 7 degrees.
When I had my BMW E82 135i coupe, the original factory RFT's were crap much below 6-8C, as were the P Zero non-RFT's I swapped to later (which were excellent in the summer) The Zero's you could feel almost turn to concrete once the temps dropped into single figures, whereas the Nokian and Continental winters I ran (in exact same size as the summers) were night and day better, even up to 10C+ during the winter months. My summers would come off the car by the end of Nov each year, and not go back on again until beginning of April.
fiesta_STage3 said:
otolith said:
CrossClimates are a great all season compromise, but if you’re going to bother changing wheels for the winter, put a set of true winters in them.
Genuine question: For a UK winter, where there’s often only a few days of actual snow, and often temperatures in the high single digit C - is this still true?Now on the 2nd set.
https://youtu.be/bKtnczk8Mxk
They use the CC as the control tyre here comparing to summer and winter and proper winter (snow) tyres
They use the CC as the control tyre here comparing to summer and winter and proper winter (snow) tyres
Patrick Bateman said:
jm8403 said:
I didn't know that was their motto: 'largely aimed at snow' not cold, I only remember the opposite which is: 'improved grip/braking at temps <7c'. I run the CC on our run around and find them brilliant too.
In my experience, it's a lot closer to 0 before I've started noticing a benefit with winter tyres in non-wintery conditions. I'm not buying that an equivalent winter will out perform a high performance summer tyre in the dry/damp at 7 degrees.
jm8403 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
jm8403 said:
I didn't know that was their motto: 'largely aimed at snow' not cold, I only remember the opposite which is: 'improved grip/braking at temps <7c'. I run the CC on our run around and find them brilliant too.
In my experience, it's a lot closer to 0 before I've started noticing a benefit with winter tyres in non-wintery conditions. I'm not buying that an equivalent winter will out perform a high performance summer tyre in the dry/damp at 7 degrees.
Sporky said:
Kawasicki said:
Does it? Not the scientific testing I carried out.
What was your methodology? Can you share the data? Then timed laps in the dry (blind) of 3 summers and 3 winters, all the same size & pressure.
A control tyre was used repeatedly to account for changing environmental conditions.
I can't share the data, it was 20 years ago! I can say my boss was surprised. All the summers were significantly faster than all the winters. Air & ground temp were just above freezing. It wasn't even close.
Found this... which also found that summers have much higher dry grip than winters, even at low temps.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Summer-All-Sea...
Yeah the tests show summer tyres are better all year round in the dry but we are fitting all seasons for those days where it’s wet, damp, frosty or on the off chance of snow, This is where the issues are for summer tyres. Anyway even in summer 1 day can be 30 degrees and sunny and the next it’s 14 degrees and raining.
Downward said:
Yeah the tests show summer tyres are better all year round in the dry but we are fitting all seasons for those days where it’s wet, damp, frosty or on the off chance of snow, This is where the issues are for summer tyres. Anyway even in summer 1 day can be 30 degrees and sunny and the next it’s 14 degrees and raining.
That's why he doesn't want to show the data 
jm8403 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
jm8403 said:
I didn't know that was their motto: 'largely aimed at snow' not cold, I only remember the opposite which is: 'improved grip/braking at temps <7c'. I run the CC on our run around and find them brilliant too.
In my experience, it's a lot closer to 0 before I've started noticing a benefit with winter tyres in non-wintery conditions. I'm not buying that an equivalent winter will out perform a high performance summer tyre in the dry/damp at 7 degrees.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Sports-Ca...
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2018-Autobild-...
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Revi...
Dry is an absolute no contest for a summer tyre being stronger, maybe more of a mix in the wet although I did say 'damp'.
Regarding all-season tyre reviews, I've now see the Michelin CrossClimate 2 and Hankook Kinergy 4S2 come in joint-first place:
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...
fiesta_STage3 said:
Kawasicki said:
Done 20k miles on CrossClimates
Great tyres, but don’t expect a lot of wet or dry grip.
i’m trying to understand this answer - well then what about them is great?Great tyres, but don’t expect a lot of wet or dry grip.
for example, do you mean that if there’s standing water they’re not great, nor in hot summer, but they’re more predictable for single digit temperature/frosty roads?…or?
I have the CC’s on the leaf since 2017 now so onto the 2nd set. This will be the 6th winter. Compared to the Cupra 290 which had the Michelin 4S which are the real grippy summer tyres where your likely to be driving the car harder.
Salted_Peanut said:
Regarding all-season tyre reviews, I've now see the Michelin CrossClimate 2 and Hankook Kinergy 4S2 come in joint-first place:
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...
Just picked up some Hankooks for the new car for the son so let’s see.https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...
Originally the car comes on 13” and you can only get the Kinergy 4S1’s so had to get some 14” steelies for the 14” 4S2’s
That tyrereviews test was using Continental Premium Contact 6’s as a summer control. I ran the 5 and it was significantly better in the cold than eco focussed tyres like Michelin Energy Savers (previous tyre) and Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance 2’s (current tyre). I reckon the dry braking results could have been significantly different if something like the Goodyear was used as a summer control instead.
Honestly was shocked during my first winter with the Goodyears, the ride stiffened, steering feel went all over the place and the car slid and understeered on A roads (going at a fair lick TBF) at the slightest hint of moisture. The fall off was noticeable when temperatures hit single digits.
Wasn’t a problem on the Premium Contact 5’s under similar conditions. If it were obviously frosty or icy I’d take it easy regardless of the tyre, so I’m talking about conditions when it was 5-10 degrees out, maybe a little damp because of the rain, typical south east English winter conditions.
Jason (tyrereviews guy) reckons for English conditions, running a summer tyre then switching to all an seasons tyre for the winter will give you the best performance.
Personally, I would be happy running something like the Premium Contacts all year round as I don’t rely on my car to commute etc and can just leave it at home if conditions get too dire. Definitely not satisfied with the performance of the Goodyears nor the Energy Saver’s during the winter however. I think I’d rather take a fuel economy hit than go with eco focussed tyres again and am going to be wary of any premium summer tyres that rate well for fuel economy going forwards. It must be something in the compound? The Premium Contacts are C rated for fuel economy on the tyre label and are generally seen as the sporty option within the touring tyres group.
Honestly was shocked during my first winter with the Goodyears, the ride stiffened, steering feel went all over the place and the car slid and understeered on A roads (going at a fair lick TBF) at the slightest hint of moisture. The fall off was noticeable when temperatures hit single digits.
Wasn’t a problem on the Premium Contact 5’s under similar conditions. If it were obviously frosty or icy I’d take it easy regardless of the tyre, so I’m talking about conditions when it was 5-10 degrees out, maybe a little damp because of the rain, typical south east English winter conditions.
Jason (tyrereviews guy) reckons for English conditions, running a summer tyre then switching to all an seasons tyre for the winter will give you the best performance.
Personally, I would be happy running something like the Premium Contacts all year round as I don’t rely on my car to commute etc and can just leave it at home if conditions get too dire. Definitely not satisfied with the performance of the Goodyears nor the Energy Saver’s during the winter however. I think I’d rather take a fuel economy hit than go with eco focussed tyres again and am going to be wary of any premium summer tyres that rate well for fuel economy going forwards. It must be something in the compound? The Premium Contacts are C rated for fuel economy on the tyre label and are generally seen as the sporty option within the touring tyres group.
Edited by wyson on Sunday 1st January 11:43
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