Uniroyal Rainsport 5
Discussion
Tony1963 said:
moanthebairns said:
Im aware of the argument and logic behind best rubber on the rear but I can't be arsed going on my tyre, buying two tyres, having them shipped to me, and driving to get them fitted an extra time. I prefer just to change all four at once.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say in that post. I got four new tyres.
I have a fwd car.
The fronts are worn to 50% rear 80%.
Rather than run the fronts to the indicators, having to buy another pair online, get them delivered, then go get them fitted I got them swapped when it was serviced.
Now, by the time the front wear to f
k all, the back will need changed as well.Thus meaning only one trip to get new tyres. Instead of doing it in drips and drabs.
moanthebairns said:
Yes, I could have worded it better.
I got four new tyres.
I have a fwd car.
The fronts are worn to 50% rear 80%.
Rather than run the fronts to the indicators, having to buy another pair online, get them delivered, then go get them fitted I got them swapped when it was serviced.
Now, by the time the front wear to fk all, the back will need changed as well.
Thus meaning only one trip to get new tyres. Instead of doing it in drips and drabs.
I would say in response that if you were to wear the fronts to say 2mm, then fit new tyres to the rear, old rears to the front, you’ll save money in the long run, and might only need as the same number of fitting sessions. I got four new tyres.
I have a fwd car.
The fronts are worn to 50% rear 80%.
Rather than run the fronts to the indicators, having to buy another pair online, get them delivered, then go get them fitted I got them swapped when it was serviced.
Now, by the time the front wear to f
k all, the back will need changed as well.Thus meaning only one trip to get new tyres. Instead of doing it in drips and drabs.
As an example, on my old VW Bora, the tyres would last 20k miles at each end, and I drove it quite hard quite often. A work colleague had a similar car, only fitted new tyres to whichever end needed them, and was only getting 18k miles out of a pair. When you’re doing 30k miles per year, it makes a difference.
Now.... I’m doing 7k per year and the tyres are different sizes
E-bmw said:
ATM said:
General advice is for newer tyres to go on the rear. You want more grip on the rear. If the car gets out of shape or spins or rotates then you're in trouble.
Disagree with that completely for 2 reasons.1. You want more grip on the front so then at least you can still steer to (hopefully) get out of trouble, without steering it doesn't matter at all what the car is doing, you are crashing.
2. Increased aquaplaning resistance due to deeper tread.
Tony1963 said:
moanthebairns said:
Yes, I could have worded it better.
I got four new tyres.
I have a fwd car.
The fronts are worn to 50% rear 80%.
Rather than run the fronts to the indicators, having to buy another pair online, get them delivered, then go get them fitted I got them swapped when it was serviced.
Now, by the time the front wear to fk all, the back will need changed as well.
Thus meaning only one trip to get new tyres. Instead of doing it in drips and drabs.
I would say in response that if you were to wear the fronts to say 2mm, then fit new tyres to the rear, old rears to the front, you’ll save money in the long run, and might only need as the same number of fitting sessions. I got four new tyres.
I have a fwd car.
The fronts are worn to 50% rear 80%.
Rather than run the fronts to the indicators, having to buy another pair online, get them delivered, then go get them fitted I got them swapped when it was serviced.
Now, by the time the front wear to f
k all, the back will need changed as well.Thus meaning only one trip to get new tyres. Instead of doing it in drips and drabs.
As an example, on my old VW Bora, the tyres would last 20k miles at each end, and I drove it quite hard quite often. A work colleague had a similar car, only fitted new tyres to whichever end needed them, and was only getting 18k miles out of a pair. When you’re doing 30k miles per year, it makes a difference.
Now.... I’m doing 7k per year and the tyres are different sizes
However, my VRS is on 160,000 miles and I'm think these might be the last set of boots it needs
Tony1963 said:
It’s not irrelevant.
Do you ditch your front tyres when they’re down to, say, four or five millimetres of tread? Do you avoid driving in the rain if the front tyres are down to 5 millimetres of tread? I bet you don’t, and you don’t because they’re still perfectly good for a fair few thousand miles. So why wouldn’t it be safe to fit tyres to the front with five mil that were on the rear?
Below 4mm of tread resistance to aquaplaning is reduced.Do you ditch your front tyres when they’re down to, say, four or five millimetres of tread? Do you avoid driving in the rain if the front tyres are down to 5 millimetres of tread? I bet you don’t, and you don’t because they’re still perfectly good for a fair few thousand miles. So why wouldn’t it be safe to fit tyres to the front with five mil that were on the rear?
No, I don't avoid driving in the rain because I have the best tyres on the front.
I never said it wasn't safe, I said it is best to have the better/newer tyres on the front.
ATM said:
E-bmw said:
ATM said:
General advice is for newer tyres to go on the rear. You want more grip on the rear. If the car gets out of shape or spins or rotates then you're in trouble.
Disagree with that completely for 2 reasons.1. You want more grip on the front so then at least you can still steer to (hopefully) get out of trouble, without steering it doesn't matter at all what the car is doing, you are crashing.
2. Increased aquaplaning resistance due to deeper tread.
E-bmw said:
If you lose the front end at speed, you are crashing, if you lose the rear, you can still steer & brake.
What tends to happen is that the driver feels that the front has reduced grip, so backs off before leaving the road. It’s more difficult to feel the rear end grip. But, as we all know, everyone on PH drives a raw race car on the road and has WRC level driving skills.
E-bmw said:
ATM said:
E-bmw said:
ATM said:
General advice is for newer tyres to go on the rear. You want more grip on the rear. If the car gets out of shape or spins or rotates then you're in trouble.
Disagree with that completely for 2 reasons.1. You want more grip on the front so then at least you can still steer to (hopefully) get out of trouble, without steering it doesn't matter at all what the car is doing, you are crashing.
2. Increased aquaplaning resistance due to deeper tread.
If you lose the rear you may go sideways into something small like a curb but it could flip you over and then you're landing on your roof. You will probably be more likely to die.
Or you might get into a spin where you don't know which way you're pointing. Then you're just watching the world go by hoping you don't die.
ATM said:
E-bmw said:
ATM said:
E-bmw said:
ATM said:
General advice is for newer tyres to go on the rear. You want more grip on the rear. If the car gets out of shape or spins or rotates then you're in trouble.
Disagree with that completely for 2 reasons.1. You want more grip on the front so then at least you can still steer to (hopefully) get out of trouble, without steering it doesn't matter at all what the car is doing, you are crashing.
2. Increased aquaplaning resistance due to deeper tread.
If you lose the rear you may go sideways into something small like a curb but it could flip you over and then you're landing on your roof. You will probably be more likely to die.
Or you might get into a spin where you don't know which way you're pointing. Then you're just watching the world go by hoping you don't die.
If you lose the rear end at speed you will be able to brake & counter steer, so are likely to have more control over whether you hit anything & in what direction, whether you make the correct choice of how/what to do about it is obviously a different matter.
It looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree then.
I will still do the same as I always have & would advise anyone else to do the same.
Two of my current cars (and others I've had before) have different size tyres front to rear, so there is no tyre rotation or fitting new ones to a different end to the one the old ones came off. I haven't noticed them trying to kill me after the fronts have been replaced. I suspect that this is more of an issue if you are in the habit of running the tyres to barely legal.
It's interesting how much better the perception of the Rainsport's wet performance has always been than its objectively mediocre performance when tested. It usually does really well on aquaplaning but not particularly so on any of the other wet measurements. Power of marketing?
It's interesting how much better the perception of the Rainsport's wet performance has always been than its objectively mediocre performance when tested. It usually does really well on aquaplaning but not particularly so on any of the other wet measurements. Power of marketing?
otolith said:
Two of my current cars (and others I've had before) have different size tyres front to rear, so there is no tyre rotation or fitting new ones to a different end to the one the old ones came off. I haven't noticed them trying to kill me after the fronts have been replaced. I suspect that this is more of an issue if you are in the habit of running the tyres to barely legal.
Rears tend to need changing more on cars like this - possibly due to rear using more toe in but don't quote me on that. So generally you will change just the rears and leave fronts on one trip to the tyre shop then change all 4 on your next trip. So this also forces you to follow the general rule of having better tyres on the rear if poss.I've changed from these staggered setups on my cars where poss and use the same size tyres front and back. This makes tyre management and shopping for new much simpler.
Rears on my cars wear out more quickly primarily due to them being driven. But fronts do not wear out in neat integer multiples of rear life spans, so it's perfectly normal to have brand new fronts and worn rears, and nothing goes wrong - primarily because I do not run either fronts or rears down to a level where performance noticeably deteriorates.
otolith said:
Rears on my cars wear out more quickly primarily due to them being driven. But fronts do not wear out in neat integer multiples of rear life spans, so it's perfectly normal to have brand new fronts and worn rears, and nothing goes wrong - primarily because I do not run either fronts or rears down to a level where performance noticeably deteriorates.
YesThe problem is worse on smaller - possibly older and therefore lighter - FWD cars which really never wear their rears at all. You can find little old ladies getting new fronts and keeping their old rears. If they do this a few times their older rears look fine but are probably deadly. These are the people I am trying to reach when I say put your new tyres on the rear. I think new MOT rules now say tyres must be less than 10 years old which is a good thing if you ask me.
ATM said:
I've changed from these staggered setups on my cars where poss and use the same size tyres front and back. This makes tyre management and shopping for new much simpler.
However, staggered tyres mean that there is a much closer tyre pressure recommendation between single person load, and full load, especially so if you have smaller rim diameters. This can be useful if you often move between the two loadings.otolith said:
Not really desirable to change from the staggered setup on the Z4M (225/45/18 & 255/40/18) or the Elise (205/45/16 & 225/45/17).
Maybe notBut you could try 4 fronts, not sure about the elise, but on the BMW they'll work fine. Lots of track day types run same tyres on all 4 corners on the e46 which is basically same car as Z4M. You don't 'need' 255 tyres on the back. My 550i is currently running 225 winters on all 4 corners. Manages to get the power down .... eventually.
ATM said:
Maybe not
But you could try 4 fronts, not sure about the elise, but on the BMW they'll work fine. Lots of track day types run same tyres on all 4 corners on the e46 which is basically same car as Z4M. You don't 'need' 255 tyres on the back. My 550i is currently running 225 winters on all 4 corners. Manages to get the power down .... eventually.
I think I would probably work on the basis that BMW probably did it for a reason, and given that it's not exactly the least tail happy thing in the world, taking an inch out of the rears would probably not be ideal!But you could try 4 fronts, not sure about the elise, but on the BMW they'll work fine. Lots of track day types run same tyres on all 4 corners on the e46 which is basically same car as Z4M. You don't 'need' 255 tyres on the back. My 550i is currently running 225 winters on all 4 corners. Manages to get the power down .... eventually.
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