Cross Climate 2

[fatboy b]

Sheepshanks said:

No - cars are designed to default to front wheel understeer as it's less dangerous for people who can't drive. Sticky tyres on the back make it worse - although you'd have to go some to be sticker than CC's.

We had the originals (all round) on a Golf for a couple of years - never gave a moments concern.

Had CC+ all round on an Ateca for the last 12mths - again absolutely fine.


Someone mentioned size availablity - I think they've dramatically expanded the size range for CC2 so worth checking if haven't already.

Don’t twist what I’ve said. CCs on the golf understeered, especially on damp roads. The original tyres were great and didn’t understeer.

[RoVoFob]

fatboy b said:

Don’t twist what I’ve said. CCs on the golf understeered, especially on damp roads. The original tyres were great and didn’t understeer.

No one’s twisting what you’re saying; what you’re claiming doesn’t add up.

You’re blaming the tyres for what sounds like user error. Having one type of tyre on one axle and a different type on the other is likely to cause understeer/oversteer issues.

[budgie smuggler]

fatboy b said:

RoVoFob said:

fatboy b said:

The o/h had them on the front of her Golf. Bloody awful tyres. Understeer was the default.

Which tyres were on the rear?

If she had all seasons on the front and summers on the rear, you’d expect both ends of the car to have different levels of grip, causing understeer or oversteer, depending upon the temperature/weather.

I’d really doubt summers on the rear would cause understeer!

Ah, yeah it does and I can confirm with personal experience because I had a similar setup on my Oct VRS for a while, PS4 on the back and CC+ on the front. It would understeer in the dry when pushed hard (not under acceleration, just hard cornering i mean).

However - either a full set of PS4 or a full set of CC+ was fine on that car (of course the PS4 gripped much better on a warm dry day). There was no balance issue as long as they were matched.

The CC2 reviews better in every regard, looks like a great all rounder.

Edited by budgie smuggler on Monday 18th October 21:58

[fatboy b]

RoVoFob said:

fatboy b said:

Don’t twist what I’ve said. CCs on the golf understeered, especially on damp roads. The original tyres were great and didn’t understeer.

No one’s twisting what you’re saying; what you’re claiming doesn’t add up.

You’re blaming the tyres for what sounds like user error. Having one type of tyre on one axle and a different type on the other is likely to cause understeer/oversteer issues.

I doubt grippy rear tyres will add understeer to a fwd car on any of tyre. Oversteer or neutral will be it’s contribution.

And blame the tyre fitter if there has been user error. I wasn’t involved in the purchase.

[RoVoFob]

fatboy b said:

I doubt grippy rear tyres will add understeer to a fwd car on any of tyre. Oversteer or neutral will be it’s contribution.

And blame the tyre fitter if there has been user error. I wasn’t involved in the purchase.

Seriously? If the rear tyres have more grip than the front, the front will become more likely to slide first. That is understeer.

Front-wheel-drive cars inherently understeer, too, as when you accelerate while cornering, the input of power can overwhelm the grip of the front tyres, causing them to slide wide before the rears.

Judging by the vehemence in your comments here in slating Michelin, the tyre fitter and everyone else, I’d imagine you’d have insisted upon triangular tyres if you were involved with the purchase…

[SAS Tom]

fatboy b said:

We found them to aquaplane in the rain and cornering on damp roads was very unpredictable. For the amount of the year that summers aren’t great, I’d rather stick with summers. That said, MPS4S on my XFR-S we’re actually great all year round. I’ll let you know how the F-Type does as I’ve ditched the stock p-zeros for MPS4S too.

I also found them bad for aquaplaning. I always felt wet grip was good but if you hit any sort of standing water they were awful and very unnerving. Test results show they aren’t so good with aquaplaning compared with others too. I wouldn’t have another set just based off that and went with Goodyear Vector 4 seasons this time round.

[mmm-five]

fatboy b said:

The o/h had them on the front of her Golf. Bloody awful tyres. Understeer was the default.

I had the Cross-Climates (aka mk1 according to some on here) on a 330D and found they understeered when I came off the power in a 100mph corner on the Nurburgring.

Thankfully I'm a driving GOD and didn't crash and die

But the tyres were so USELESS that I'm putting the newer model on my new 320D!

There's also been the Cross-Climate Plus, so you could say the Cross-Climate 2 is the 'mk 3' of the tyre.

[jamesbilluk]

Thanks all, have ordered a set of the Cross climate 2 now to go on the spare wheels.

[Sheepshanks]

Annoys me you can't get these (or similar) on new cars - especially for SUVs, first sign of slippy weather and they can become a right handful.

[mmm-five]

Sheepshanks said:

Annoys me you can't get these (or similar) on new cars - especially for SUVs, first sign of slippy weather and they can become a right handful.

My father's small SUV came on Goodyear Vector 4 Season Gen2, so they are out there, but for the normal UK usage the manufacturers probably don't think it's worth it.

It's about the first thing I do (besides servicing) on any daily driver I buy 2nd hand (unless it's got recent tyres of a decent brand - and then I'll swap when they're worn or can find someone who wants to swap for their wheels/tyres).

Both of my Alfa 147s and my 330D Touring have had either Michelin Cross-Climates or Bridgestone WeatherControls on over 25-50,000 miles - including a couple of laps of the Ring (yes, they default to 4-wheel drifting when pushing on).

I don't see why everything other than each manufacturers 'sporty' models aren't fitted/offered with a more British weather biased tyre - i.e. one for 4-season wet/greasy/cold/slushy conditions, rather than a HP/UHP summer touring tyre (other than the obvious desire to sell an expensive second set of winter wheels/tyres).

[jamesbilluk]

I think in one of the 'tyre reviews' videos, the chap said the Cross climate 2 was now being fitted as standard to volvo electric SUV's

I did find this as well, it's a shame this wasn't offered in the UK, performance orientated all season tyre
https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tires/michelin-pi...

[mmm-five]

jamesbilluk said:

I think in one of the 'tyre reviews' videos, the chap said the Cross climate 2 was now being fitted as standard to volvo electric SUV's

I did find this as well, it's a shame this wasn't offered in the UK, performance orientated all season tyre
https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tires/michelin-pi...

I agree. There seem to be a lot of option in the US for performance all-seasons, don't know why they're not offered in the UK/Europe.

[nebpor]

Fitted cross climate 2 to the family E91 320D two weeks ago, have done 500 miles on them last week, all over Argyll on holiday. I rate them highly.

Bought winter wheels and tyres last year (205/60/16, older set of Goodyear winters on them) and ended up keeping them on all year as the car was more comfortable with the smaller wheel! Compared to the winters, the CC2 is much quieter and I also noticed a bit more fuel efficient. The weather was shocking here all week and they were much better than the winters in the rain and standing water. Like noticeably so. They're obviously not a sports tyre, but then that's the point.

I really, really like them.

They are not as good as the PS4 I normally run on the car (on bigger, wider wheels), but for the family car going into winter they are a great mid-point. We live at sea-level Scotland so rarely get snow, but we do trek over to our caravan regularly over some mountain roads and the CC2 will do a good job of keeping the care safe in most conditions.

[jamesbilluk]

nebpor said:

Fitted cross climate 2 to the family E91 320D two weeks ago, have done 500 miles on them last week, all over Argyll on holiday. I rate them highly.

Bought winter wheels and tyres last year (205/60/16, older set of Goodyear winters on them) and ended up keeping them on all year as the car was more comfortable with the smaller wheel! Compared to the winters, the CC2 is much quieter and I also noticed a bit more fuel efficient. The weather was shocking here all week and they were much better than the winters in the rain and standing water. Like noticeably so. They're obviously not a sports tyre, but then that's the point.

I really, really like them.

They are not as good as the PS4 I normally run on the car (on bigger, wider wheels), but for the family car going into winter they are a great mid-point. We live at sea-level Scotland so rarely get snow, but we do trek over to our caravan regularly over some mountain roads and the CC2 will do a good job of keeping the care safe in most conditions.

Thank you for that

They sound great, and just what I'm looking for!

[anxious_ant]

mmm-five said:

I don't see why everything other than each manufacturers 'sporty' models aren't fitted/offered with a more British weather biased tyre.

Agreed. My diesel S90 D5 comes with 20" rims with 255/30 profile tyres. All tyre choices within the correct spec are mostly targetted for summer "performance" driving. Closest all season tyre I can find is Uniroyal Rainsport 5, but not too sure about these in winter.

[Haltamer]

jamesbilluk said:

They sound great, and just what I'm looking for!

+1 For this - The test TyreReviews did pretty much confirmed this for me; A summer-esque tread pattern and construction with a colder-biased rubber would be so perfect for the UK (Especially down south) where it's cold and wet but very little snow.

ETA:
I think the real reason is the comparably small market for all season non-3PMSF across the rest of Europe with seasonal requirements.

Edited by Haltamer on Tuesday 19th October 13:56

[Sheepshanks]

Haltamer said:

+1 For this - The test TyreReviews did pretty much confirmed this for me; A summer-esque tread pattern and construction with a colder-biased rubber would be so perfect for the UK (Especially down south) where it's cold and wet but very little snow.

ETA:
I think the real reason is the comparably small market for all season non-3PMSF across the rest of Europe with seasonal requirements.

I'm not sure if it's changed over time, but the original Cross Climate's where said to be summer biased. But still with 3PMSF.

The CC2's are supposed to be better (than previous CCs) in snow.

I've also read that CC2 is going to be Michelin's standard everyday tyre - that could explain why they've massively exapnded the range of sizes available.

[Camelot1971]

Just had some Cross Climate 2's put on my Mondeo (235/40/19). Only been on less than a week but definitely inspire confidence and much nicer "feel" than the combination of Avon/Nankangs that were on it when I bought it! £170ish each fitted. Not been cold down here though (North Essex).

[Sheepshanks]

Hair said:

I can understand the complaint about understeer, it's something that feels that way, even though it isn't actually understeering (at least in my case). I came from 4 X Primacy 4 and the biggest difference is on centre feel, or whatever the term is.

I am not sure the best words to use to describe it, but on the Primacy 4, you could really feel the centre of the tyres, small adjustments felt instant and direct? With the CC2 the same movements still move the car, but you don't really get any feel from the tyres while doing it. For me it's not an issue, the CC2 accelerate/brake/corner just the same as the Primacy 4s (just with reduced feel).

Obviously they may just be different, but a lot it may be due to having new tyre tread depth, the tyre tread "squirms" more, vs the worn tyres that you had on previously. I was also thinking CC's might have a softer compound, but they not sure about that as they usually last well.

Are the new ones XL? It used to be that all CC's where XL, but they do have more standard load index sizes now. If they are XL then in theory you should put the pressures up a couple of PSI.

[carboy0]

I have gone for 4 x CC2s on the car, and am very pleased with their road performance, but only have room in the boot for one spare. As the tyres are single direction tyres I don’t know what to fit on the spare wheel. Do I;

1. Fit a CC2 to the spare and hope that it has the right orientation (I.e. nearside or offside) if I have a puncture. Which begs the question can I run a CC2 ‘backwards’ if the spare’s orientation is for the other side?

2. Fit a different unidirectional tyre to the spare, as per a lot of cars with space saver spares?

All thoughts considered.