What Tyres Do You Choose When Push Comes to Shove?
Discussion
Monkeylegend said:
If Kuhmo are good enough for Mercedes to fit as OEM direct from the factory they must be classed as premium tyres surely.
Not sure about that, could well be Kumho make them to spec for Mercedes and just use a recognised model name in Kumho portfolio. They might deliberately position their retail tyres in the mid market. I’d be watching out for them winning independent tyres tests. Hankook started placing really well in those and Jon from tyrereviews upgraded them to the premium tier. Last time I checked tyrereviews.co.uk, Kumho was still in the mid market tier.Yup, still there:
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/#Mid-Range
Edited by wyson on Monday 13th November 19:54
Lol, some of the brand names on that tyrereviews list are hilarious. How about fitting Pneumant tyres to the front axle and Zenises to the rear?
I suppose to read properly, left side of the car, you want a Pneumant on the front and a Zenises on the rear, and the right side of the car, the Pneumant on the rear and Zenises on the front?
I suppose to read properly, left side of the car, you want a Pneumant on the front and a Zenises on the rear, and the right side of the car, the Pneumant on the rear and Zenises on the front?
Edited by wyson on Monday 13th November 20:04
I have a big fleet of cars. I spend £1000 on tyres most months.
This is a balance between convenience and longevity. I don't care too much about the performance of the tyre. I just need it to be cheap, adequate, and last a long time. And then I can pick that tyre for all cars for evermore.
My current favourite in Kormoran. Apparently made by Michellin, it looks decent, lasts reasonably, is very affordable, and in my limited experience hasn't sent me sideways into the scenery any time lately. I am a driving God of course, but most of my cars seem to have stayed on the road, so I no evidence at all that better tyres will be cheaper.
Make of that what you will., but if someone has a cheaper cost per mile, I'd be very happy to know what it is.
This is a balance between convenience and longevity. I don't care too much about the performance of the tyre. I just need it to be cheap, adequate, and last a long time. And then I can pick that tyre for all cars for evermore.
My current favourite in Kormoran. Apparently made by Michellin, it looks decent, lasts reasonably, is very affordable, and in my limited experience hasn't sent me sideways into the scenery any time lately. I am a driving God of course, but most of my cars seem to have stayed on the road, so I no evidence at all that better tyres will be cheaper.
Make of that what you will., but if someone has a cheaper cost per mile, I'd be very happy to know what it is.
I'll generally go for Michelin, Goodyear, or Continental, but broadly whatever the best/most appropriate "known brand" is for the application. Definitely stay away from the Ni Hao Hedgemaster end of the market.
It's interesting how previous experiences shape my opinions, though. Had some relatively low-end Pirellis on a car a couple of decades ago that were... less than fantastic in the wet, and I've kind of swerved the brand as a whole ever since.
It's interesting how previous experiences shape my opinions, though. Had some relatively low-end Pirellis on a car a couple of decades ago that were... less than fantastic in the wet, and I've kind of swerved the brand as a whole ever since.
wyson said:
Lol, some of the brand names on that tyrereviews list are hilarious. How about fitting Pneumant tyres to the front axle and Zenises to the rear?
I suppose to read properly, left side of the car, you want a Pneumant on the front and a Zenises on the rear, and the right side of the car, the Pneumant on the rear and Zenises on the front?
American saying Zenises I suppose to read properly, left side of the car, you want a Pneumant on the front and a Zenises on the rear, and the right side of the car, the Pneumant on the rear and Zenises on the front?
Edited by wyson on Monday 13th November 20:04
Years ago the 1999 Passat I bought had horrid Goodrides. The car wanted to go straight on at roundabouts. Looking for a new set, I bought a set of 15” alloys off a Passat owner on ebay, who had bought bigger rims. The alloys happened to have a good set of Michelin Primacy Tyres, which transformed the handling and lasted ages. I since tried Firestones and Avons which were also good but wore down a lot sooner.
These days my default choice is Michelin, because they handle well, last. I now have PS5s on our 2015 Audi A5 Quattro and even bought a set for our ageing 2005 Audi A6 - the thinking on this is that they will see me out for the next 30k which will take the A6 beyond 300,000 miles.
The PS5s are good on both cars. The A5 had PS4S tyres before. The A6 had PS4 tyres. Was happy not to notice a great difference in handling with the PS5s on the A5 after changing to them, but then I don’t take them to the limits. On the A6 the PS5s are as good if not better than the PS4s. More then happy with them and hope to see some decent wear.
These days my default choice is Michelin, because they handle well, last. I now have PS5s on our 2015 Audi A5 Quattro and even bought a set for our ageing 2005 Audi A6 - the thinking on this is that they will see me out for the next 30k which will take the A6 beyond 300,000 miles.
The PS5s are good on both cars. The A5 had PS4S tyres before. The A6 had PS4 tyres. Was happy not to notice a great difference in handling with the PS5s on the A5 after changing to them, but then I don’t take them to the limits. On the A6 the PS5s are as good if not better than the PS4s. More then happy with them and hope to see some decent wear.
Edited by stogbandard on Monday 13th November 23:53
Some food for thought there.
On my previous vehicle (MR2 Roadster facelift), cos I couldn't get any premium sports summer road tyres in OEM sizes (and I'm with an insurance company who gives me excellent rates, but won't touch any performance mods, inc alteration in tyre sizes), I ended up going for Yoko AD08RS road legal track tyres, and a second set of winter wheels with Vredestein Quatrac all seasons for when it's cold.
It was a strange compromise, and felt like going from one extreme to the other - steel reinforced sidewalls on Yokos made it feel like stiffer suspension, to siped treadblocks that allow extra movement on the all seasons.
Now, on my present vehicle (987 2.7 Boxster on 17" rims), I'm faced with another dilemma. I want to keep my 17" wheels. And there are no recent design premium sports tyres in my size (205/55 17 F, 235/50 17 R), but you can still get two really old Porsche specific 'N' spec tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 2 and Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric version 1. They're both ancient designs - Michelin are now on version 5 and Goodyear version 6.
Shortly after I bought the car, I replaced the 10 year old tyres(!) with some of the above mentioned PS2s. But I don't like them. I don't enjoy the feel, at all, and don't feel like I can really lean on them. In their defense, they've lasted the longest of any tyre on the driving axle of any sporty car I've ever owned. I mean, the rears only need replacing now after two and a half years on a 9K a year daily runner (3mm on one side, 2mm on the other - hairpin on my way to work
)
Don't know what to do. I don't have much love for the PS2s I've got now, and the general consensus among owners is that out of the Michelin and the Goodyear 'N' spec tyres, the PS2 is the better. Do I replace with more of the same and just accept the limited performance, or go for a wild card?
On my previous vehicle (MR2 Roadster facelift), cos I couldn't get any premium sports summer road tyres in OEM sizes (and I'm with an insurance company who gives me excellent rates, but won't touch any performance mods, inc alteration in tyre sizes), I ended up going for Yoko AD08RS road legal track tyres, and a second set of winter wheels with Vredestein Quatrac all seasons for when it's cold.
It was a strange compromise, and felt like going from one extreme to the other - steel reinforced sidewalls on Yokos made it feel like stiffer suspension, to siped treadblocks that allow extra movement on the all seasons.
Now, on my present vehicle (987 2.7 Boxster on 17" rims), I'm faced with another dilemma. I want to keep my 17" wheels. And there are no recent design premium sports tyres in my size (205/55 17 F, 235/50 17 R), but you can still get two really old Porsche specific 'N' spec tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 2 and Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric version 1. They're both ancient designs - Michelin are now on version 5 and Goodyear version 6.
Shortly after I bought the car, I replaced the 10 year old tyres(!) with some of the above mentioned PS2s. But I don't like them. I don't enjoy the feel, at all, and don't feel like I can really lean on them. In their defense, they've lasted the longest of any tyre on the driving axle of any sporty car I've ever owned. I mean, the rears only need replacing now after two and a half years on a 9K a year daily runner (3mm on one side, 2mm on the other - hairpin on my way to work
)Don't know what to do. I don't have much love for the PS2s I've got now, and the general consensus among owners is that out of the Michelin and the Goodyear 'N' spec tyres, the PS2 is the better. Do I replace with more of the same and just accept the limited performance, or go for a wild card?
For performances cars over the last three decades I have followed advice from owners forums as you quickly see a trend.
Over the years those best tyres (at that time) were brands like Yokohama, Toyo, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Pirelli and of course Michelin the current best of breed.
If I cannot get a clear steer from other owners, then I rightly (or perhaps wrongly) rely on the ratings stickers prioritising wet grip on the family cars.
Also, to me. If a tyre isn’t wearing, then it clearly isn’t very grippy.
One thing I find non car people don’t get is that tyres go hard and are less effective as they get older.
Anything over 7 years old on a new to me purchase and I ditch them for new rubber.
Over the years those best tyres (at that time) were brands like Yokohama, Toyo, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Pirelli and of course Michelin the current best of breed.
If I cannot get a clear steer from other owners, then I rightly (or perhaps wrongly) rely on the ratings stickers prioritising wet grip on the family cars.
Also, to me. If a tyre isn’t wearing, then it clearly isn’t very grippy.
One thing I find non car people don’t get is that tyres go hard and are less effective as they get older.
Anything over 7 years old on a new to me purchase and I ditch them for new rubber.
bearman68 said:
I have a big fleet of cars. I spend £1000 on tyres most months.
This is a balance between convenience and longevity. I don't care too much about the performance of the tyre. I just need it to be cheap, adequate, and last a long time. And then I can pick that tyre for all cars for evermore.
My current favourite in Kormoran. Apparently made by Michelin, it looks decent, lasts reasonably, is very affordable, and in my limited experience hasn't sent me sideways into the scenery any time lately.
I guess safety is another key aspect not directly mentioned.This is a balance between convenience and longevity. I don't care too much about the performance of the tyre. I just need it to be cheap, adequate, and last a long time. And then I can pick that tyre for all cars for evermore.
My current favourite in Kormoran. Apparently made by Michelin, it looks decent, lasts reasonably, is very affordable, and in my limited experience hasn't sent me sideways into the scenery any time lately.
But you should be able to get an reasonable stab in the dark from the wet and dry grip figures, although its not just about ultimate grip, as how progressively the grip falls off is not directly reflected and is also important.
Johnny5hoods said:
Some food for thought there.
On my previous vehicle (MR2 Roadster facelift), cos I couldn't get any premium sports summer road tyres in OEM sizes (and I'm with an insurance company who gives me excellent rates, but won't touch any performance mods, inc alteration in tyre sizes), I ended up going for Yoko AD08RS road legal track tyres, and a second set of winter wheels with Vredestein Quatrac all seasons for when it's cold.
It was a strange compromise, and felt like going from one extreme to the other - steel reinforced sidewalls on Yokos made it feel like stiffer suspension, to siped treadblocks that allow extra movement on the all seasons.
Now, on my present vehicle (987 2.7 Boxster on 17" rims), I'm faced with another dilemma. I want to keep my 17" wheels. And there are no recent design premium sports tyres in my size (205/55 17 F, 235/50 17 R), but you can still get two really old Porsche specific 'N' spec tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 2 and Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric version 1. They're both ancient designs - Michelin are now on version 5 and Goodyear version 6.
Shortly after I bought the car, I replaced the 10 year old tyres(!) with some of the above mentioned PS2s. But I don't like them. I don't enjoy the feel, at all, and don't feel like I can really lean on them. In their defense, they've lasted the longest of any tyre on the driving axle of any sporty car I've ever owned. I mean, the rears only need replacing now after two and a half years on a 9K a year daily runner (3mm on one side, 2mm on the other - hairpin on my way to work )
Don't know what to do. I don't have much love for the PS2s I've got now, and the general consensus among owners is that out of the Michelin and the Goodyear 'N' spec tyres, the PS2 is the better. Do I replace with more of the same and just accept the limited performance, or go for a wild card?
Fronts are available in that size in a PS4… rears you’d need to switch to a 245/45. On my previous vehicle (MR2 Roadster facelift), cos I couldn't get any premium sports summer road tyres in OEM sizes (and I'm with an insurance company who gives me excellent rates, but won't touch any performance mods, inc alteration in tyre sizes), I ended up going for Yoko AD08RS road legal track tyres, and a second set of winter wheels with Vredestein Quatrac all seasons for when it's cold.
It was a strange compromise, and felt like going from one extreme to the other - steel reinforced sidewalls on Yokos made it feel like stiffer suspension, to siped treadblocks that allow extra movement on the all seasons.
Now, on my present vehicle (987 2.7 Boxster on 17" rims), I'm faced with another dilemma. I want to keep my 17" wheels. And there are no recent design premium sports tyres in my size (205/55 17 F, 235/50 17 R), but you can still get two really old Porsche specific 'N' spec tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 2 and Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric version 1. They're both ancient designs - Michelin are now on version 5 and Goodyear version 6.
Shortly after I bought the car, I replaced the 10 year old tyres(!) with some of the above mentioned PS2s. But I don't like them. I don't enjoy the feel, at all, and don't feel like I can really lean on them. In their defense, they've lasted the longest of any tyre on the driving axle of any sporty car I've ever owned. I mean, the rears only need replacing now after two and a half years on a 9K a year daily runner (3mm on one side, 2mm on the other - hairpin on my way to work
)Don't know what to do. I don't have much love for the PS2s I've got now, and the general consensus among owners is that out of the Michelin and the Goodyear 'N' spec tyres, the PS2 is the better. Do I replace with more of the same and just accept the limited performance, or go for a wild card?
Much better tyres than the old PS2’s.
Back when I still had my 306 HDI Dturbo with 195/55/15 balloon tyres on the classic Cyclone alloy wheels there wasn't much choice unless you dropped to 195/50/15 which a lot of the 306 owners seemed to do. As I was still a new driver back then I decided to stick with OE tyre sizes and I had a set of Hankook Ventus V12 Evo tyres all around which were pretty good on the 306 in anything other than snow and ice. When two of the Hankooks came to the end of their life I fitted a pair of Vredestein Sportrac 5s which were also quite good, although I'd say the aquaplaning resistance was better on the Hankooks, possibly due to tread design. It looks like the bigger brands offer a bit more choice in that tyre size these days as I'd probably go for Primacy 4s or EfficientGrips if I still had the car.
After the 306 I had (still have) an E46 330d which came with four different tyres with the best tyre being an Avon ZV5. Within six months all four tyres had been replaced with Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 2s, which were replaced by Michelin PS4 and before I went back to Goodyear again with the F1A5.
I bought a 335d earlier this year which has PS4S on the front, but the garage I bought it from irritatingly replaced the PS4S which were on the rear with a pair of Triangles which were fine for perhaps three months (in Spring/Summer) and have been rubbish ever since. I've been considering replacing them with Hankook S1 Evo 3s as a happy medium between a decent but slightly cheaper tyre. However, there's mention of the S1 Evo3 being more comfort orientated and not giving much feedback, then again they can't be anywhere near as bad as a pair of worn Triangles...
tldr; I'd be reasonably happy with something like Hankook/Vredestein/Kumho if there was no other option, but I'll always aim to get the latest PilotSports or Eagle F1s. I'd also go for SportContacts if Continental ever sort their wear rates out. I'll give rubbish tyres a try if the car is already fitted with them, but they're never on there for more than 6-12 months.
After the 306 I had (still have) an E46 330d which came with four different tyres with the best tyre being an Avon ZV5. Within six months all four tyres had been replaced with Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 2s, which were replaced by Michelin PS4 and before I went back to Goodyear again with the F1A5.
I bought a 335d earlier this year which has PS4S on the front, but the garage I bought it from irritatingly replaced the PS4S which were on the rear with a pair of Triangles which were fine for perhaps three months (in Spring/Summer) and have been rubbish ever since. I've been considering replacing them with Hankook S1 Evo 3s as a happy medium between a decent but slightly cheaper tyre. However, there's mention of the S1 Evo3 being more comfort orientated and not giving much feedback, then again they can't be anywhere near as bad as a pair of worn Triangles...
tldr; I'd be reasonably happy with something like Hankook/Vredestein/Kumho if there was no other option, but I'll always aim to get the latest PilotSports or Eagle F1s. I'd also go for SportContacts if Continental ever sort their wear rates out. I'll give rubbish tyres a try if the car is already fitted with them, but they're never on there for more than 6-12 months.
My go to tyres are
Goodyear eagle F1 for something reasonably sporty.
Michelin crossclimates for daily driver...
The mgb has conti eco contact, but.thats what it can with, really doesn't need.either of the above given the limited mileage.
The contis have been ok.. when they age out I will probably replace them like for like
Goodyear eagle F1 for something reasonably sporty.
Michelin crossclimates for daily driver...
The mgb has conti eco contact, but.thats what it can with, really doesn't need.either of the above given the limited mileage.
The contis have been ok.. when they age out I will probably replace them like for like
My last 2 cars have been problems for tyres.
First a Tvr Chimaera which had to have Uniroyal Rainsports, which in fairness i found to be a good tyre, and now a Lotus Elise which has Yokohama tyres fitted and recommended.
Problem is every tyre review i see puts Yokohama last and are classed as average at best so its a tough one.
To be fair a few ive tried and liked are Uniroyal, Hankook and Kumho.
First a Tvr Chimaera which had to have Uniroyal Rainsports, which in fairness i found to be a good tyre, and now a Lotus Elise which has Yokohama tyres fitted and recommended.
Problem is every tyre review i see puts Yokohama last and are classed as average at best so its a tough one.
To be fair a few ive tried and liked are Uniroyal, Hankook and Kumho.
Interesting seeing the comments above about Kumho. They've been a good tyre for me for about 10 years now - good ole Korean engineering, and cheaper because you're not paying the premium of other brands.
Question I always ask myself is whether I need to fork out £££s on tyres rated to speeds I'm never going to drive on the road. All tyres are rated for road speeds, so it's really just a question of grip and longevity.... oh, and the price you pay.
Just say you can buy a Kumho for $50 and a Pirelli P Zero for £100 (not accurate prices by the way). You're effectively paying double, for how much more grip?
Will you even notice?
There's a great article about it on oz racing - https://www.ozracingwheels.com.au/tyres/how-to-get...
Covers how to find a tyre based on what your real needs are and shows how much you can save on just road car tyres (it's an Aussie article, but $100 is about £50)
Question I always ask myself is whether I need to fork out £££s on tyres rated to speeds I'm never going to drive on the road. All tyres are rated for road speeds, so it's really just a question of grip and longevity.... oh, and the price you pay.
Just say you can buy a Kumho for $50 and a Pirelli P Zero for £100 (not accurate prices by the way). You're effectively paying double, for how much more grip?
Will you even notice?
There's a great article about it on oz racing - https://www.ozracingwheels.com.au/tyres/how-to-get...
Covers how to find a tyre based on what your real needs are and shows how much you can save on just road car tyres (it's an Aussie article, but $100 is about £50)
pfeds said:
Just say you can buy a Kumho for $50 and a Pirelli P Zero for £100 (not accurate prices by the way). You're effectively paying double, for how much more grip?
Will you even notice?
Don't forget other parts of the tyre/cost compromise.Will you even notice?
Grip.
Mileage.
Economy.
Noise.
Each of these is/can be affected by the amount of money that goes into developing the tyre, and each company weights different tyres within these compromises.
pfeds said:
Interesting seeing the comments above about Kumho. They've been a good tyre for me for about 10 years now - good ole Korean engineering, and cheaper because you're not paying the premium of other brands.
Question I always ask myself is whether I need to fork out £££s on tyres rated to speeds I'm never going to drive on the road. All tyres are rated for road speeds, so it's really just a question of grip and longevity.... oh, and the price you pay.
Just say you can buy a Kumho for $50 and a Pirelli P Zero for £100 (not accurate prices by the way). You're effectively paying double, for how much more grip?
Will you even notice?
There's a great article about it on oz racing - https://www.ozracingwheels.com.au/tyres/how-to-get...
Covers how to find a tyre based on what your real needs are and shows how much you can save on just road car tyres (it's an Aussie article, but $100 is about £50)
Tyre speed ratings are as much about acceleration capability as top speed. Don’t ignore. Question I always ask myself is whether I need to fork out £££s on tyres rated to speeds I'm never going to drive on the road. All tyres are rated for road speeds, so it's really just a question of grip and longevity.... oh, and the price you pay.
Just say you can buy a Kumho for $50 and a Pirelli P Zero for £100 (not accurate prices by the way). You're effectively paying double, for how much more grip?
Will you even notice?
There's a great article about it on oz racing - https://www.ozracingwheels.com.au/tyres/how-to-get...
Covers how to find a tyre based on what your real needs are and shows how much you can save on just road car tyres (it's an Aussie article, but $100 is about £50)
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